520 Church St. | 12-Story Residential [Under Construction]

[jack]

19 hours ago, nite owℓ said:

Yep. I saw that coming years ago, but didn't want to name names. The HOA assessments for repairs were NOT cheap either. Some owners paid it off up front, while others are prorating the assessment into their monthly fee.

This is also why I'm concerned about all these wood frame apartments getting built around downtown - they are not built to withstand FL weather. I've noticed even some of the newer concrete towers (Modera, Radius, a few buildings in CV, etc.) are cheaping out by not using concrete walls and have been using EIFS-like materials to complete the building envelope.

Its more of a lack of proper maintenance though 420 sounds like a a bad install job. There are wood framed projects with stucco that have been around for decades with no issues. There are others that have problems after a few years. 

[ChiDev]

I don't think they understand the capabilities of EIFS bolted to steel stud, which itself is bolted between layers of CIP (@ Radius).    Modera and Radius are both CIP, I believe 420/520/orange and robinson are prefab (though dif types).  I am guessing 420's issues have more to do with their vertical layers & waterproofing not matching up, an issue with prefab concrete over concrete that fills gap and takes form in-place.   I agree that at 10-20 stories,  wood frame would never be able to compete with CIP in an FL wind environment, but that said, it never would given the expense of fire treated timber.

[codypet]

44 minutes ago, ChiDev said:

I don't think they understand the capabilities of EIFS bolted to steel stud, which itself is bolted between layers of CIP (@ Radius).    Modera and Radius are both CIP, I believe 420/520/orange and robinson are prefab (though dif types).  I am guessing 420's issues have more to do with their vertical layers & waterproofing not matching up, an issue with prefab concrete over concrete that fills gap and takes form in-place.   I agree that at 10-20 stories,  wood frame would never be able to compete with CIP in an FL wind environment, but that said, it never would given the expense of fire treated timber.

I thought they were referring to Modera Creative Village.

[ChiDev]

Ah, welp my bad if that the case.  This is the problem with having 2 moderas, 3 jeffersons, x Broadstones, etc

[aimorris]

On 12/12/2020 at 7:15 PM, nite owℓ said:

How is it living at Modera? (i.e. Pros/cons, etc.) Do you guys have a security guard that patrols the property?

No security guard but only residents and escorted people get access past the lobby so no issues there. The homeless literally right outside our door and at the corner is unbearable for me now though. Rosalind/Pine is an awful intersection of idiots on the scooters, cars never checking for pedestrians or bikes, and I hate it that the only big area to take my dog out means I have to cross it. Not many other people do because it smells like piss because of the tiny patch of grass outside the front door. The first floor smells like garbage constantly because the loading dock elevator also opens into the lobby.

All that being said, I like my actual apartment inside. Nice kitchen, built in desk area, big balcony and great view of the lake. Had some bad luck with loud neighbors but not necessarily the property’s fault. Gym is good for what I use it for. Normal issues of elevators breaking down in apartments.

I just really prefer living a few blocks over in terms of being away from noise and traffic. Considering all the apartments in Ivanhoe area now too though because of 520 delays.

[nite owℓ]

Actually I was referring to CBD  Modera as well as the other developments in the CV that are not 100% concrete.  My issue with EIFS is that it does not equate to longevity (100+ years). Towers built in the CBD should be built to last. Repeated expensive repairs on top of keeping up with normal operating expenses eventually contributes to blight. I don't recall Modera or Radius having cast in place exterior walls, if anything I distinctly remember CBD Modera polluting surrounding streets with a "snowstorm" of styrofoam as workers rasped the exterior system.

I don't care if EIFS is bolted to steel or it's wind resistance - my concern is with wind driven rain & water intrusion which can be costly and destructive if not caught in time. Concrete holds up much better during lapses in maintenance. If I were part of an investment group, I'd rather own a property like Skyhouse over Modera just to avoid any unnecessary maintenance that could have been easily avoided to begin (in spite of possible pool deck issues in the future)

8 hours ago, jack said:

Its more of a lack of proper maintenance though 420 sounds like a a bad install job. There are wood framed projects with stucco that have been around for decades with no issues. There are others that have problems after a few years. 

I think the damage @ the G went beyond "proper maintenance" issues because I heard they also had to have their windows replaced. Only so much sealing you can do with EIFS. Concrete/prefab is the best way to go when living in FL. Don't get me wrong, I love historic stucco buildings but I'm sure those same buildings are hiding wood rot and termite damage underneath. You usually don't find out until it's too late.

[nite owℓ]

7 minutes ago, aimorris said:

No security guard but only residents and escorted people get access past the lobby so no issues there. The homeless literally right outside our door and at the corner is unbearable for me now though. Rosalind/Pine is an awful intersection of idiots on the scooters, cars never checking for pedestrians or bikes, and I hate it that the only big area to take my dog out means I have to cross it. Not many other people do because it smells like piss because of the tiny patch of grass outside the front door. The first floor smells like garbage constantly because the loading dock elevator also opens into the lobby.

All that being said, I like my actual apartment inside. Nice kitchen, built in desk area, big balcony and great view of the lake. Had some bad luck with loud neighbors but not necessarily the property’s fault. Gym is good for what I use it for. Normal issues of elevators breaking down in apartments.

I just really prefer living a few blocks over in terms of being away from noise and traffic. Considering all the apartments in Ivanhoe area now too though because of 520 delays.

Interesting feedback, thanks. I asked about the security guard because I'm shocked to see so many homeless people camping out in front of a brand new building with almost no noticeable enforcement. Even though I don't rent, I don't think I would be willing to spend that kind of money without a guard on premises.

I'll make an LPI request to the city at the Pine/Rosalind intersection. At least if something happens, there will be documentation of their neglect in keeping pedestrians safe.

[aimorris]

3 minutes ago, nite owℓ said:

Interesting feedback, thanks. I asked about the security guard because I'm shocked to see so many homeless people camping out in front of a brand new building with almost no noticeable enforcement. Even though I don't rent, I don't think I would be willing to spend that kind of money without a guard on premises.

I'll make an LPI request to the city at the Pine/Rosalind intersection. At least if something happens, there will be documentation of their neglect in keeping pedestrians safe.

Yeah it’s a real bummer because it’s the same people every day and they always ask you, without fail. I will be shocked if the new French bakery that just opened beside DGX can make it considering 90% of the seating is outside and there are people camped out on that entire block.

[prahaboheme]

28 minutes ago, aimorris said:

No security guard but only residents and escorted people get access past the lobby so no issues there. The homeless literally right outside our door and at the corner is unbearable for me now though. Rosalind/Pine is an awful intersection of idiots on the scooters, cars never checking for pedestrians or bikes, and I hate it that the only big area to take my dog out means I have to cross it. Not many other people do because it smells like piss because of the tiny patch of grass outside the front door. The first floor smells like garbage constantly because the loading dock elevator also opens into the lobby.

All that being said, I like my actual apartment inside. Nice kitchen, built in desk area, big balcony and great view of the lake. Had some bad luck with loud neighbors but not necessarily the property’s fault. Gym is good for what I use it for. Normal issues of elevators breaking down in apartments.

I just really prefer living a few blocks over in terms of being away from noise and traffic. Considering all the apartments in Ivanhoe area now too though because of 520 delays.

This is something that I deal with on a daily basis (in LA) and covid has only made the situation more dire.  There is a homeless encampment that has grown to now hundreds of people just around the corner from my apartment.  Occasionally someone will find a way into the building.

Until this country tackles homelessness as a crisis, I don't see this getting better.

[OrlandoBeaver]

Went by the development today,  looked like they were working on the lobby interior and putting in plants around the building. 

[ChiDev]

I wonder what spurred them to change the floorplate layout mid structure rise.  Normally this happens at transfer plates, or going from single load to double, not mid-stack.  Curious.

  

[aent]

1 hour ago, ChiDev said:

I wonder what spurred them to change the floorplate layout mid structure rise.  Normally this happens at transfer plates, or going from single load to double, not mid-stack.  Curious.

  

On the left side, it appears thats a 2 sotry room, so I'd guess thats an amenity room? On the right side, is the layout actually different, or is it just not painted on the upper floors yet?

[OrlandoBeaver]

2 hours ago, aent said:

On the left side, it appears thats a 2 sotry room, so I'd guess thats an amenity room? On the right side, is the layout actually different, or is it just not painted on the upper floors yet?

Yea looking at the renderings on the website it looks like there are 2 story amenity rooms by the pool. Assuming that is why there are some differences in the layout. 

[ChiDev]

I love you little sherlocks.

[notbatman]

Anyone know when this place is actually going to open? They said February but it's almost February and I haven't heard an update in months.

[OrlandoBeaver]

1 hour ago, notbatman said:

Anyone know when this place is actually going to open? They said February but it's almost February and I haven't heard an update in months.

Not sure, I actually emailed them a week or so about it and haven't heard anything. I will make sure to post their response on here

[jrs2]

this place looks fantastic at street level.  Their finishings are tops for that first two story tall  portion

[OrlandoBeaver]

On 1/10/2021 at 7:04 PM, notbatman said:

Anyone know when this place is actually going to open? They said February but it's almost February and I haven't heard an update in months.

They responded to me saying first move ins will be "mid to late February" 

[bqknight]

They're getting close. The building is a welcome addition - so much better than the big empty lot that was there before. At street level, the building looks very high quality. Hopefully some retail can be successful there. 

Does anyone know if anyone was looking at the lot next to it that was for staging? They removed the fencing there and now it's just another....empty dirt lot. Filling that in would really "complete" this little area. 

[OrlandoBeaver]

You can look at virtual floor plans for some of the units on their website now: 

https://www.camdenliving.com/orlando-fl-apartments/camden-lake-eola

[dwSouthEola]

The bldg looks amazing now that it's done. There's a buzz in the neighborhood and the lights on at night make it feel like the building has come to life, not just a vacant box.. but really, are we still doing this? Smh

How is this "THORNTON PARK'S NEWEST LUXURY APARTMENT COMPLEX" (that's their ALL CAPS not mine...they're really excited about it). We reached out to Acre to share https://www.southeola.org/history in an effort to show them South Eola is actually a great place, something to be proud of as a location, and asked that they change their wording to be correct/accurate "South Eola's newest luxury apartment complex" but everyone loves selling this lie so it still stands: https://www.acrefl.com/camden-lake-eola

That they go on to say located in both Thornton Park District and South Eola District (which we've been told isn't a thing) is just weird. Idk why I was surprised (-ish, not really) to see that Thornton Park picked up another luxury complex via South Eola - they have all the things.

[FLheat]

14 minutes ago, dwSouthEola said:

The bldg looks amazing now that it's done. There's a buzz in the neighborhood and the lights on at night make it feel like the building has come to life, not just a vacant box.. but really, are we still doing this? Smh

How is this "THORNTON PARK'S NEWEST LUXURY APARTMENT COMPLEX" (that's their ALL CAPS not mine...they're really excited about it). We reached out to Acre to share https://www.southeola.org/history in an effort to show them South Eola is actually a great place, something to be proud of as a location, and asked that they change their wording to be correct/accurate "South Eola's newest luxury apartment complex" but everyone loves selling this lie so it still stands: https://www.acrefl.com/camden-lake-eola

That they go on to say located in both Thornton Park District and South Eola District (which we've been told isn't a thing) is just weird. Idk why I was surprised (-ish, not really) to see that Thornton Park picked up another luxury complex via South Eola - they have all the things.

 

My OCD hates this is 520  Camden Lake Eola and the 420 building is Camden Thornton Park.  It should be the other way around as Thornton Park is East of Lake Eola.

[dwSouthEola]

Well they're both in South Eola so it's pretty stupid either way. When they changed the name we reached out and asked why they chose that and got a stock response "it's meant to reference the Thornton Park District" but the name isn't CamdenTPD so ... ? Off the record the woman told me she disagreed with the name but the company was influenced by the city to choose CamdenTP. When we asked the city about this they said "we'll look into that" and they must still be looking.

The fact that the new building hasn't hitched their wagon to that concept may be shining more of a light on the lie next door bc for the first time I've ever seen CamdenTP recently posted about being in South Eola...albeit in a way that was also wrong.

They're trying, it's still laughable. All I could think of was this reddit meme format when I saw the post. Or maybe they've found a secret way to exist in both the Thornton Park / South Eola neighborhood? Two places at once, that's impressive.

[codypet]

Someone I talked to recently referred to the Lawsona Neighborhood as Thornton Park too.   That place is huge!

Edited March 31, 2021 by codypet

[nite owℓ]

I'd attribute this to growing pains... or similar to a younger sibling growing up in the shadow of a popular sibling. I see you're doing your part in trying educate people/developers, but have you guys thought about erecting neighborhood monument signs? I think this would also help with neighborhood recognition as you guys try to establish a more discernible identity.

That said, you say you've lived in S.E. for quite a while so I'm sure you understand WHY developers are doing this. Thornton Park has brand recognition... it was always a hip/quirky/funky little downtown neighborhood that pretty much all adjacent areas wanted to attach themselves to--including South Eola (which was a little rough back then). I know this because as a local landlord I've watched people market their properties that way over the past decade. Some people in Lawsona/Fern Creek felt entitled to be in TP especially located on Thornton Ave directly across from Lake Lawsona. Some landlords even as far south as Lake Cherokee/Lake Davis would sometimes blatantly market themselves as Thornton Park (or call themselves Delaney Park). Rampy/Ustler set the precedent when they named Thonton Park Central, but there's no denying the part they played in revitalizing each neighborhood and the relationship was symbiotic: TP brand + cheap/available land in SE.

Renters aren't going to know all of the neighborhood intricacies (and I doubt they really care that much) - they see TP and they click, but as we discussed earlier the real neighborhood boundaries in that area are arbitrary (and they should change/evolve over time IMO). If you really think about it though, I doubt a person wanting to live in SE (which is heavily multifamily apartments/condos & townhomes) would really want to live in TP (which is more single family bungalows on brick streets) - just different vibes. I don't even think the zoning in TP would support those kinds of apartments. I would even say TP lost a little bit of it's edge to Winter Park prior to the epidemic.

Also, the Park neighborhoods have a nice ring to it. IDK why, but neighborhoods without fancy descriptors in the name sound a bit truncated.... a little too on the nose. Neighborhoods ending with Park, Hill, Bay, Heights, Village, Oaks, Beach, etc. always sound more finished to me. Unless it's an abbreviation like Tribeca, Sodo, etc.

Edited March 31, 2021 by nite owℓ