520 Church St. | 12-Story Residential [Under Construction]

[spenser1058]

Thornton Park was every bit as ersatz when  Phil Rampy and Craig Ustler were still together and decided to jumpstart the ‘hood.

They found the name on a plat and decided to use it, but it hadn’t been  in use for decades until the grassroots efforts got underway to bring back downtown.

Remember that South Eola (another name that wasn’t used much) was the cruising district in the pre-internet days and the hustlers and rentbois who lived in both neighborhoods in older houses that had been split up as cheap rentals used the pay phones and spent their cash at the much seedier in those days Summerlin 7-Eleven.

I suppose since both neighborhoods were coming back from rough times (South Eola was actually better off because of the retirement towers which got built there because the land was cheap - my, how things have changed) that they can call it what they want to now.

As for me, I miss the “Mariposa Jungle” and the many trees on the lots Howard Schiefferdecker had up for sale for years before he went off and became Maitland’s mayor.

[dwSouthEola]

Oof, when I lived at the Plaza Apts and walked my dog at night I remember the cars cruising the block by Baptist Terrace.. and I get brand recognition, but that was the 90s and downtown has obvi changed so much. Parking for the Plaza used to be a grass lot across the street. Lol. There was nothing here.

It just feels to me rather than the city cling to a dead brand, or appropriating South Eola for the sake of said brand - why not create something new? I mean tbh it's already been created, just start using the name, package and sell it. 90% of real estate listings here call SE "the heart of TP" so shouldn't TP also be kind of upset with this? They don't care that their brand is so watered down? Besides that the 2 neighborhoods couldn't be more different.

And there's def a pact going on across this town to NEVER say 'South Eola' out loud. We're either Downtown, Thornton Park, someone at the planning dept uses Eola South (?) idk and South Eola District, which if you look at the map kind of already exists just with an intentionally misleading name.

[codypet]

12 hours ago, nite owℓ said:

I'd attribute this to growing pains... or similar to a younger sibling growing up in the shadow of a popular sibling. I see you're doing your part in trying educate people/developers, but have you guys thought about erecting neighborhood monument signs? I think this would also help with neighborhood recognition as you guys try to establish a more discernible identity.

Also, the Park neighborhoods have a nice ring to it. IDK why, but neighborhoods without fancy descriptors in the name sound a bit truncated.... a little too on the nose. Neighborhoods ending with Park, Hill, Bay, Heights, Village, Oaks, Beach, etc. always sound more finished to me. Unless it's an abbreviation like Tribeca, Sodo, etc.

That's a good point.  I'm seeing this identity crisis in the Lake Como Neighborhood.  Just across 408, they refer to is as the "almond milk district" although officially its the Milk District.   I've seen real estate listings on the north side of Lake Como identify it as "Milk District" while the south side has been called "Hourglass District" (Not even beginning to mention Hourglass District isn't the official name....... "Curry Ford West").  There was hoopla a few years ago because the neighborhood page booted anyone who wasn't in the Lake Como Neighborhood which prompted complaints from a number of Dover Shores West people who apparently felt they were part of the Lake Como neighborhood.  Even showing pics of their listings only to find out they weren't included in the official neighborhood boundary.

[dwSouthEola]

41 minutes ago, codypet said:

Even showing pics of their listings only to find out they weren't included in the official neighborhood boundary.

This happened at a TPD mixer hosted by the Abbey, they set us up next to the Thornton Park neighborhood association table and a woman wanted to join the TP neighborhood association - they told her she didn't live in TP and she got visibly upset, started shouting 'I live upstairs in the Sanctuary and I most certainly DO live in TP" it was a full meltdown. They tried to send her our way and she was not having it.. oh well.

To bring it back to the 520 at least they are using the fact that South Eola has Lake Eola Park to rent their apartments, still going out of their way not to mention South Eola by name but - baby steps. It seems weird Acre felt the need to use the lie/crutch to rent their retail space.

[nite owℓ]

On 3/31/2021 at 10:36 AM, dwSouthEola said:

This happened at a TPD mixer hosted by the Abbey, they set us up next to the Thornton Park neighborhood association table and a woman wanted to join the TP neighborhood association - they told her she didn't live in TP and she got visibly upset, started shouting 'I live upstairs in the Sanctuary and I most certainly DO live in TP" it was a full meltdown. They tried to send her our way and she was not having it.. oh well.

Ooh the entitlement of that woman... Or is it denial?? lol She was probably going around telling everyone she lived in TP for years and no one corrected her (or didn't know it themselves). For being such a small neighborhood, Thornton Park has a lot of recognition. Honestly, I think the writing is on the wall for South Eola to eventually be "annexed" or amalgamated into TPD. Personally I'd like to see TPD extended all the way over to Rosalind. Thornton Park is no longer just a neighborhood, but a marketing concept. The hard work of getting brand recognition is already done and the developers are laying the groundwork by them stretching their advertising. While that may not be the outcome you're looking for, it could help strengthen both neighborhoods: South Eola would get more recognition/automatic acceptance/cred and TP would get a much needed boost in updating their brand which has become a bit stagnant. Doing so would make it  easier to market apartments/homes which would attract more residents downtown. IMO, you'd be stronger together than resisting the tide of change alone.

 

On 3/31/2021 at 10:36 AM, dwSouthEola said:

To bring it back to the 520 at least they are using the fact that South Eola has Lake Eola Park to rent their apartments, still going out of their way not to mention South Eola by name but - baby steps. It seems weird Acre felt the need to use the lie/crutch to rent their retail space.

Another weird thing with marketing: 520 using the fact that South Eola has Lake Eola Park is kind of weak advertising. Yes Lake Eola is located within the South Eola's neighborhood boundary, but IMO proximity to Lake Eola Park matters much more and it's not like there's any ownership or privileges associated with being located in a neighborhood boundary. The Waverly (which is technically located in the Central Business District) has more in common with Lake Eola Park than many of the South Eola buildings located several blocks away. What's the advantage in advertising to be in the same neighborhood as Lake Eola Park when they don't have views of the park or the lake and have to walk several blocks to get there? Meanwhile some apartments in Lake Eola Heights & the CBD are closer in proximity to Lake Eola Park have the ability to offer what some buildings in South Eola cannot. Just saying that sometimes it's not worth getting too caught up in labels.

Edited April 1, 2021 by nite owℓ

[dwSouthEola]

19 hours ago, nite owℓ said:

She was probably going around telling everyone she lived in TP for years and no one corrected her

I can only assume this is sarcasm/mocking the issue that residents of South Eola believe they live in Thornton Park and that we're out to 'correct them' - the lie being sold to these people (TPD, realtors, developers are making money off this lie) has actual consequences. South Eola has tried year after year to jumpstart a Neighborhood Watch program. If people think "Oh well, I live in Thornton Park" then who's joining? When a man physically attacked diners outside Oudom in 2019, that same man had caused a disturbance on Anthony's patio earlier in the day. In 2017, 2018, maybe even 2019, had we been able to reach residents the same way other neighborhoods are - we could've had a strong effective NW program in place and using 'see something say something' possibly had a BOLO alert sent out, put it on our Facebook page, in our FB group, block captains can send txt alerts, etc. Eola Heights is really great about this, it is attainable. So then you have to also ask, with anything that could've happened that day to get word out - would anyone even listen? If they think Oudom is in Thornton Park, if they think they live in Thornton Park, would they care that someone was rampaging across South Eola? We deal with real issues here, we're not party planners.

19 hours ago, nite owℓ said:

the writing is on the wall for South Eola to eventually be "annexed" or amalgamated into TPD

I think, like most people, you're confusing the TPD and the Thornton Park neighborhood. TPD is a business, basically an ad agency with a 'coverage map' and contract voted on by city council. Without other businesses who choose to pay them for their promotional services, it would cease to exist. Neighborhoods are the places where people live. Verizon has a coverage map too but I don't go around telling people "I live in Verizon" because I pay them for their services - even if they threw a party at Lake Eola. And all you have to do is look at the map, South Eola already makes up nearly the entire TPD so they have already "annexed" their way into that. If you're talking about the neighborhood absorbing South Eola they said no. They're a small, sleepy neighborhood they don't want the issues that come with over 2,000 residents in an urban setting. Did you think we had never asked?

19 hours ago, nite owℓ said:

stronger together than resisting the tide of change alone

Who do you see resisting the tide of change? South Eola is the new downtown, Thornton Park is clinging to relevance on our back. If it weren't for the TPD using South Eola for the sake of Thornton Park's name and brand, what would they have? Their homes, Burtons, and hair salons. The "Thornton Park Historic District" is another lie, they're part of the Lawsona Historic District. It's extremely narcissistic, and sad in a way.. why not be proud of who you are vs touting what others have as your own. Idk

19 hours ago, nite owℓ said:

Lake Eola is located within the South Eola's neighborhood boundary

I'm glad we agree here, although I do have another map. Updated for 2021 it shows all the current residential buildings in our neighborhood, and the lake.  So you think South Eola and every one of these buildings using Lake Eola as a selling point is weak advertising? If Lake Eola were located in any other neighborhood, trust me they'd be selling it. To sweeten the deal we can also add things like South Eola is the #1 most walkable neighborhood in downtown Orlando, has the only grocery store downtown, the only off leash dog park, even though it's not in our name  we've actually got two parks: Lake Eola & Constitution Green, multiple stops for free Lymmo transportation connecting you with the larger downtown Orlando area, we have a boutique hotel and brewery, locally owned small businesses not found anywhere else, and any level of buy-in of residence you could want from $1000 rentals to over $2M condos.

This is already a lot and I'm sure nobody wants wicked long blocks of text and quote after quote of each other being addressed so if you want to talk more, anytime - I'm at [email protected]  Happy Friday!

[nite owℓ]

10 hours ago, dwSouthEola said:

I can only assume this is sarcasm/mocking the issue that residents of South Eola believe they live in Thornton Park and that we're out to 'correct them' - the lie being sold to these people (TPD, realtors, developers are making money off this lie) has actual consequences. South Eola has tried year after year to jumpstart a Neighborhood Watch program. If people think "Oh well, I live in Thornton Park" then who's joining? When a man physically attacked diners outside Oudom in 2019, that same man had caused a disturbance on Anthony's patio earlier in the day. In 2017, 2018, maybe even 2019, had we been able to reach residents the same way other neighborhoods are - we could've had a strong effective NW program in place and using 'see something say something' possibly had a BOLO alert sent out, put it on our Facebook page, in our FB group, block captains can send txt alerts, etc. Eola Heights is really great about this, it is attainable. So then you have to also ask, with anything that could've happened that day to get word out - would anyone even listen? If they think Oudom is in Thornton Park, if they think they live in Thornton Park, would they care that someone was rampaging across South Eola? We deal with real issues here, we're not party planners.

I think, like most people, you're confusing the TPD and the Thornton Park neighborhood. TPD is a business, basically an ad agency with a 'coverage map' and contract voted on by city council. Without other businesses who choose to pay them for their promotional services, it would cease to exist. Neighborhoods are the places where people live. Verizon has a coverage map too but I don't go around telling people "I live in Verizon" because I pay them for their services - even if they threw a party at Lake Eola. And all you have to do is look at the map, South Eola already makes up nearly the entire TPD so they have already "annexed" their way into that. If you're talking about the neighborhood absorbing South Eola they said no. They're a small, sleepy neighborhood they don't want the issues that come with over 2,000 residents in an urban setting. Did you think we had never asked?

Who do you see resisting the tide of change? South Eola is the new downtown, Thornton Park is clinging to relevance on our back. If it weren't for the TPD using South Eola for the sake of Thornton Park's name and brand, what would they have? Their homes, Burtons, and hair salons. The "Thornton Park Historic District" is another lie, they're part of the Lawsona Historic District. It's extremely narcissistic, and sad in a way.. why not be proud of who you are vs touting what others have as your own. Idk

I'm glad we agree here, although I do have another map. Updated for 2021 it shows all the current residential buildings in our neighborhood, and the lake.  So you think South Eola and every one of these buildings using Lake Eola as a selling point is weak advertising? If Lake Eola were located in any other neighborhood, trust me they'd be selling it. To sweeten the deal we can also add things like South Eola is the #1 most walkable neighborhood in downtown Orlando, has the only grocery store downtown, the only off leash dog park, even though it's not in our name  we've actually got two parks: Lake Eola & Constitution Green, multiple stops for free Lymmo transportation connecting you with the larger downtown Orlando area, we have a boutique hotel and brewery, locally owned small businesses not found anywhere else, and any level of buy-in of residence you could want from $1000 rentals to over $2M condos.

This is already a lot and I'm sure nobody wants wicked long blocks of text and quote after quote of each other being addressed so if you want to talk more, anytime - I'm at [email protected]  Happy Friday!

It wasn't meant to mock whatever issues you have going on behind the scenes. I honestly thought it was funny she believes the Sanctuary is actually located in Thornton Park despite being told otherwise. Maybe it was her first time being told so she was still in denial lol. I know someone who bought a condo in the CBD thinking they lived in Lake Eola Heights. I informed them of the neighborhood boundary (it only takes a few seconds to educate someone), but it doesn't change anything for them because they are happy where they are. At the end of the day, the onus is on the BUYER to educate themselves about which neighborhood they want to live in. The info is readily available online if it's that important to them. If you're going to spend your hard earned dollars buying a home then I wouldn't consider it an unreasonable concept to do some basic research.

My original comments still stand. Personally I don't get my feathers ruffled too much over downtown neighborhood boundaries. I buy based on proximity to the things I want--it doesn't do anything for me to live on the fringe area of a neighborhood just to be able to say "I live in Notting Hill" (unless I'm getting the best of both worlds). For 520 to stress the fact that Publix and Lake Eola are located in the South Eola neighborhood boundary (as if it affords any exclusive rights or privileges) is why I said that it's kind of weak advertising because they still have to walk several blocks to their destination anyway. In my example, The Waverly has the same amount of access to Publix, Lake Eola, etc. just like everyone else albeit in a more convenient location. The only time that kind of "establishing territory" thing matters to me is for the Paramount to advertise they have a Publix on the ground floor or a property has deeded access to a lake down the street without actually being on the lakefront. Neighborhood boundaries are more of a consideration for me in the 'burbs, but in downtown it's all the same because we're all in such close proximity to everything. Just a difference in opinion is all. Enjoy your weekend.

 

Edited April 3, 2021 by nite owℓ

[codypet]

12 hours ago, dwSouthEola said:

To sweeten the deal we can also add things like South Eola is the #1 most walkable neighborhood in downtown Orlando, has the only grocery store downtown, the only off leash dog park, even though it's not in our name  we've actually got two parks: Lake Eola & Constitution Green, multiple stops for free Lymmo transportation connecting you with the larger downtown Orlando area, we have a boutique hotel and brewery, locally owned small businesses not found anywhere else, and any level of buy-in of residence you could want from $1000 rentals to over $2M condos.

 

You also have a news  station according to that map.  Now that the Sentinel is out of the CBD, I don't know if any neighborhood can tout that.

Edited April 3, 2021 by codypet

[WAJAS]

News13 is still in the CBD.

[spenser1058]

WFTV is still just across South St from Constitution Green.

[codypet]

11 hours ago, WAJAS said:

News13 is still in the CBD.

It is?  I thought they had moved out of the old Wells Fargo building. 

[jgardnerucf]

The snooze news really takes precedent/ or same mention, over the ABC affiliate? LOL! C'mon!

[WAJAS]

On 4/3/2021 at 1:14 PM, codypet said:

It is?  I thought they had moved out of the old Wells Fargo building. 

Their website still has them located there: Contact Us | Central Florida Local News | Spectrum News 13 (mynews13.com)

I'm not sure if they have downsized though.