orange87

Vertical Medical City | 40-Story Medical High Rise [Proposed]

Recommended Posts

How do they ask the FAA for approval for a certain height when they don't even have a particular site chosen? 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


47 minutes ago, shardoon said:

How do they ask the FAA for approval for a certain height when they don't even have a particular site chosen? 

The location in the application is the lot between Jefferson and Washington, east of Garland.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

Ancient Proverb: If wishes were horses, then beggars could ride.

 

 

If frogs had wings they wouldn't bump their butts when they jumped!

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This project makes no economic sense.  Assisted-living is a notoriously low-margin industry.  

Even for-profit assisted living centers have a lot of patients on Medicaid.  The federal government caps Medicaid benefits at an already-low level (its something like 82% of full price, give-or-take).   Medicaid reimbursements are likely to further decrease under Trump.  

There is simply little money in the industry. 

It makes no sense to pay a premium to building a 40-story building.  Assisted living facilities in cheaper areas (suburbs or the exurbs) barely scrap by.

Which begs the question...do we even want this project?

If the project is built, it could actually set-back downtown development for years. If the assisted living facilty does not survive, who absorbs that much new office space?  It could sit empty.

I am not convinced Ponce can even get adequate financing. (Think the I-4 Eyesore downtown).

Last, I again have to raise the jobs issue.  Nursing homes are mostly staffed by unskilled health aides. They make some of the lowest wages in the entire economy.  I assume some skilled nurses (and maybe a handful of doctors) will work there.  Do we really want to use prime downtown office space for that?  

This is NOT a hospital. That is why the FL Hospital and Orlando Health don't give a damn about the project. If they were worried, they would have deployed their powerful lobbyist to rally against the project already. Crickets.

Nothing about this project makes any sense.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Big difference between nursing homes, assisted living and senior living communities- the two latter ones have substantial margins and with the pending baby boom REIT investors are flocking toward them. Those two segments do not receive Medicare funding and the larger facilities either limit or refuse Medicaid residents. The payment sources are generally private pay and VA resources, which pay well.  The number of boomers that have long term care policies is much higher than in the past and they typically pay well, though somewhat below market. 

But I agree with you that it is an extremely low paying sector and I'd hate to see  that piece of property used for that purpose.

ps- I have bought, sold, owned and invested in these type businesses since 2000.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a lot of experience with assisted living facilities. To call them low margin is borderline laughable. Now, whether it makes sense to pay all this extra money to house in a highrise is debatable...... but blanket statements like this are absurd. Most are private pay.  Our facilities start at $4800 and run upwards of $6000 a month. Memory care is extra. On the average 90 unit facility, with 60 assisted units and 30 memory care units, the net income per month after expenses is about $2.2 million.  Granted, this is for a cookie cutter facility with a suburban setup. I do not know what the added expense would be to be in an urban highrise, which I would expect it to be a lot more.  

Now as far as the jobs.......... they are the low end except for management which runs from $75k to $125k with  and an extra performance bonus structure in place.  

Edited by shardoon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, AmIReal said:

Big difference between nursing homes, assisted living and senior living communities- the two latter ones have substantial margins and with the pending baby boom REIT investors are flocking toward them. Those two segments do not receive Medicare funding and the larger facilities either limit or refuse Medicaid residents. The payment sources are generally private pay and VA resources, which pay well.  The number of boomers that have long term care policies is much higher than in the past and they typically pay well, though somewhat below market. 

But I agree with you that it is an extremely low paying sector and I'd hate to see  that piece of property used for that purpose.

ps- I have bought, sold, owned and invested in these type businesses since 2000.

Fair enough.

The assisted-living companies don't seem to be doing very well though.

HCR ManorCare and Preferred Care both just recently filed for bankruptcy.

Brookdale lost $500 million last year and was talking to Blackstone about selling off a bunch of properties.

The economy as a whole is red-hot.  This particular industry is not.

Edited by I am Reality
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Based on my experience with the assisted-living world. these would be among the wealthiest residents of downtown Orlando.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Everyone else probably already realized....but I just figured it out.  

Ponte Health is not an actual health-care provider.  It is an architectural firm that specializes in medical buildings.  

I incorrectly assumed that Ponte would be OCCUPYING the VMC.

So there is no occupant or financing (that's been publically announced, at least). 

This project appears to be a mere concept.  Why did Ponte even apply for the FAA waiver?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This was covered on the first page of the thread. Clearly stated "Seeks equity partner" and that "site is not yet purchased" for the project. They are just an architectural team that is drumming up interest. I believe it actually started as a design exercise and then got a few people on board with the idea of joining as tenants, engineers, contractor, and others hopped in. (see video I posted on page 5).  Of course, they still have neither the financing nor the site, both of which are pretty critical to actually creating a real project. My assumption is that this is all marketing bluster to try to get partners to pay for it. A great deal of ALF facilities are actually REIT owned and lease-back to operator. I wouldn't be surprised that if this actually works (which I have many doubts on at this point) you may see this exact type of financing and site selection.

FAA submittal is just more smoke and mirrors to sell it to finance partners as a talking point. "See, hey look, we already got permission from the FAA to build the tallest building in Orlando. Get in on the ground floor now before this takes off and you miss your chance!"

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, dcluley98 said:

This was covered on the first page of the thread. Clearly stated "Seeks equity partner" and that "site is not yet purchased" for the project. They are just an architectural team that is drumming up interest. I believe it actually started as a design exercise and then got a few people on board with the idea of joining as tenants, engineers, contractor, and others hopped in. (see video I posted on page 5).  Of course, they still have neither the financing nor the site, both of which are pretty critical to actually creating a real project. My assumption is that this is all marketing bluster to try to get partners to pay for it. A great deal of ALF facilities are actually REIT owned and lease-back to operator. I wouldn't be surprised that if this actually works (which I have many doubts on at this point) you may see this exact type of financing and site selection.

FAA submittal is just more smoke and mirrors to sell it to finance partners as a talking point. "See, hey look, we already got permission from the FAA to build the tallest building in Orlando. Get in on the ground floor now before this takes off and you miss your chance!"

I agree.  This project is less than nothing.

It's like a PR job for Ponte, with no realistic chance of being built.

Reminds me of proposal made by another architectural firm in NYC.  This ridiculous proposal got a ton of publicity for the firm:

 

IMG_0622.JPG

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/4/2018 at 6:40 PM, I am Reality said:

I agree.  This project is less than nothing.

It's like a PR job for Ponte, with no realistic chance of being built.

Reminds me of proposal made by another architectural firm in NYC.  This ridiculous proposal got a ton of publicity for the firm:

 

IMG_0622.JPG

those residential towers in Midtown have a ridiculously narrow height to width ratio.  The one on the left on Park, but that other one to the left of the "Upside down U" I think is currently u/c.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The one immediately left of the U is under construction.  I was recently there.  It's being built around the historical Steinway (of piano fame) Hall.    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/111_West_57th_Street

It's going to be the world's skinniest skyscraper upon completion.

 

 

This would have to be looking SE-ish.  432 Park on the left.  Then 111 W 57th.  Weird U.  One57 and misc. buildings in the background (Empire State, Bank of America, Freedom Tower, and the like)

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.