orange87

Vertical Medical City | 40-Story Medical High Rise [Proposed]

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2 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

FH already has hundreds of millions invested in their main campus off Princeton with a lot of space for administrative offices, etc. Can't see why they'd choose an off-site, downtown location for anything. All operations are concentrated within their own little medical city.

I was speaking in past tense.  Wishing they had put money into the core years ago.

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Well, doggone it, who cares about what the land owner wants or the competence of the folks making the proposal or the history of the major healthcare providers in the region. We fanboys at UP want a tall building, for gosh sakes, and that's all that matters!

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We're really lucky that we have two huge medical districts just north and south of downtown.  Too bad UCF didn't located downtown from Day One.

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My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with a girl that this is ACTUALLY going to be taller than the Jeddah Tower.

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OBJ has spoken! Developer says "a major health system has stepped forward with intent to lease one of the three towers"

Getting interesting


https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2018/02/07/1b-vertical-medical-city-planned-for-downtown.html

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2 hours ago, orange87 said:

Man, the negativity is getting sooo repetitive on here.

I have called people out for the 7-Eleven bashing, so I agree that there can be lots of negativity around here.  But there's negativity and there's realism.  Until they have any sort of deal with the property owner, and are willing to announce who this mystery healthcare partner is, it's entirely a pipe dream that I see no point in even getting excited over.

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3 hours ago, orange87 said:

Man, the negativity is getting sooo repetitive on here.

Andy, you beat me to it by a few minutes. I also concede (and dislike) that there is sometimes a recurring negativity on these boards. But I'm not usually a participant in those broken records. This is different - it's just incredible to see everyone getting so pumped up over what presents as little more than an undergraduate student thesis from a non-existent company that has issued a press release just to see what the hell happens.   I will admit, however, that there's little risk in being a naysayer on a project like this.  If we're right, we're right. If we're wrong, TERRIFIC.

Edited by uncreativeusername
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Re: the above three posts... I think you're all overstating the perceived negativity as well as the level of excitement over this proposal. This is an opinion forum. People have opinions and they post them. Some agree with your/my opinion some don't. No big deal. Some of us believe this project might happen some believe it will not. That doesn't make any of us Pollyannas or Debbie Downers. We just see it differently.

But most importantly, and above all else, if we can't trash and make fun of 7 Eleven, something is wrong here, dammit!!!! 

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4 hours ago, JFW657 said:

Re: the above three posts... I think you're all overstating the perceived negativity as well as the level of excitement over this proposal. This is an opinion forum. People have opinions and they post them. Some agree with your/my opinion some don't. No big deal. Some of us believe this project might happen some believe it will not. That doesn't make any of us Pollyannas or Debbie Downers. We just see it differently.

But most importantly, and above all else, if we can't trash and make fun of 7 Eleven, something is wrong here, dammit!!!! 

lol, I made a similar comment about ya'll debbie downers in the thread about the 7 or 8 star hotel, but I made it because there were multiple people who seemingly didn't even want it to happen, like I-Drive/Universal area isn't worthy of Orlando's second top tier hotel, not just that they didn't believe it would happen (like what seems to be  the case here). But I did play a portion of that... pre-planning meeting in the background and I doubt we're gonna see much, but the OBJ article said she's trying to get land closed within 90 days, I guess we'll see. It sounds like she might actually have a tenant for one of the smaller of the 3 "towers", so we might see a building get built, just not the tallest one, it doesn't sound that unreasonable, and she could be using the idea of the tallest building to make sure the project is speedily approved, but plans to try to split it into a couple of phases later.

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These people need money and tenants.  I think the big tenant money will come from marketing office space to dozens of private doctor offices; that plus the big unnamed tenant.  I'd be more confident about this if Lincoln or Unicorp proposed this.  But Ponte?  Whatever. 

And 540' is tall for Orlando, but the collective mentality at City Hall and whomever of what is defined as "tall" is so skewed to the stumpy side it's ridiculous and pathetic, compared to other cities.  I mean, they scaled down the Orlando Eye.  Really?  They scaled down the OC Cthse by alot.  They also scaled down and battled Pizzuti in the Late '90's until that proposal fizzled.  The mentality in this county is ridiculous when it comes to height.  They need an infusion of New Yorkers and Chicagoans in City Hall to change this collective thought and move things in the right direction.  It's a wonder we have CRT and the Intermodal Center at OIA.

Anyway, they want to build tall because they don't have the land.  That's a bad sign.

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I'm torn.  I get tired of people constantly poo-poo'ing things, but I like to bash 7-11.  What is a boy to do????

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Let's unpack a few things. Isn't the Eye in Orange County? As to the Orange County Courthouse, they only reduced the height by a couple of stories to assuage Republican concerns that a government building shouldn't be taller than private ones (in our very blue OC of today, that dog wouldn't hunt.)

As for Ron P., he couldn't get the financing for even the shorter tower because he didn't have the tenants; unlike Sun Bank, he never really went through the process to raise the limit because that building wasn't getting built. Instead, he ran home to Columbus for several years and his next project on North Orange was a stubby.

As for Chicago, last I looked it was barely growing while Orlando is one of the fastest-growing metros in the US. As for New York, other than the replacement for the World Trade Center, they haven't been competing on height (which has also been a topic of angst in the NY Times.)

One of the great things about UP is how much you can learn from some very smart folks about local projects. We've also learned over the years that a lot of developers are full of hot air when it comes to seriously building. Instead of deciding we're being negative, l'm glad we have folks who pretty accurately call when something is likely to go vertical. That's as opposed to OBJ, which blindly publishes any wild-eyed notion that comes along instead of committing actual journalism. I'm grateful for the expertise here that digs in.

Edited by spenser1058
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20 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

As for New York, their tallest building was built in the 1930s so they are hardly the poster child of moving forward on height.

Am I missing something?  Isn't the tallest building in NY the new World Trade Center?

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3 minutes ago, codypet said:

Am I missing something?  Isn't the tallest building in NY the new World Trade Center?

You are correct!  I'm updating (I was reading something that said it wasn't going to be tallest but it was obviously in error.) This reinforces my point that our experts correct things ASAP. Thanks, codypet

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There are actually two taller than the Empire State building now. The main tower of the new World Trade Center which is a symbolic 1776 feet tall for our year of independence and 432 Park Avenue. 

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3 hours ago, jrs2 said:

These people need money and tenants.  I think the big tenant money will come from marketing office space to dozens of private doctor offices; that plus the big unnamed tenant.  I'd be more confident about this if Lincoln or Unicorp proposed this.  But Ponte?  Whatever. 

And 540' is tall for Orlando, but the collective mentality at City Hall and whomever of what is defined as "tall" is so skewed to the stumpy side it's ridiculous and pathetic, compared to other cities.  I mean, they scaled down the Orlando Eye.  Really?  They scaled down the OC Cthse by alot.  They also scaled down and battled Pizzuti in the Late '90's until that proposal fizzled.  The mentality in this county is ridiculous when it comes to height.  They need an infusion of New Yorkers and Chicagoans in City Hall to change this collective thought and move things in the right direction.  It's a wonder we have CRT and the Intermodal Center at OIA.

Anyway, they want to build tall because they don't have the land.  That's a bad sign.


So Exactly how tall was the Orange County Courthouse supposed to be?

Edited by IAmFloridaBorn

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Thx. Orange. That is an interesting design. You can see it would be significantly taller than the Vue. It is really squeezed onto that parcel. 

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11 hours ago, aent said:

lol, I made a similar comment about ya'll debbie downers in the thread about the 7 or 8 star hotel, but I made it because there were multiple people who seemingly didn't even want it to happen, like I-Drive/Universal area isn't worthy of Orlando's second top tier hotel, not just that they didn't believe it would happen (like what seems to be  the case here). But I did play a portion of that... pre-planning meeting in the background and I doubt we're gonna see much, but the OBJ article said she's trying to get land closed within 90 days, I guess we'll see. It sounds like she might actually have a tenant for one of the smaller of the 3 "towers", so we might see a building get built, just not the tallest one, it doesn't sound that unreasonable, and she could be using the idea of the tallest building to make sure the project is speedily approved, but plans to try to split it into a couple of phases later.

Good point. I think the three towers are 20/30/40 stories tall. So even if only the shortest tower get's built, it's probably about the same height as Modera Central, and that wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

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On 2/8/2018 at 8:26 AM, spenser1058 said:

Let's unpack a few things. Isn't the Eye in Orange County? As to the Orange County Courthouse, they only reduced the height by a couple of stories to assuage Republican concerns that a government building shouldn't be taller than private ones (in our very blue OC of today, that dog wouldn't hunt.)

As for Ron P., he couldn't get the financing for even the shorter tower because he didn't have the tenants; unlike Sun Bank, he never really went through the process to raise the limit because that building wasn't getting built. Instead, he ran home to Columbus for several years and his next project on North Orange was a stubby.

As for Chicago, last I looked it was barely growing while Orlando is one of the fastest-growing metros in the US. As for New York, other than the replacement for the World Trade Center, they haven't been competing on height (which has also been a topic of angst in the NY Times.)

One of the great things about UP is how much you can learn from some very smart folks about local projects. We've also learned over the years that a lot of developers are full of hot air when it comes to seriously building. Instead of deciding we're being negative, l'm glad we have folks who pretty accurately call when something is likely to go vertical. That's as opposed to OBJ, which blindly publishes any wild-eyed notion that comes along instead of committing actual journalism. I'm grateful for the expertise here that digs in.

Well, since we’re unpacking the luggage, let’s dig in deep to the fact pocket of this piece of  Samsonite and look for the bag of numbing truth to counteract the condition afflicting many called fanboyism:

The Eye is in Orange County nowhere near OIA and there is a 500’ height limit.  At least the 550’ height limit in Sunny Isles was justified b/c of Opa Locka Airport’s runways.  But the Orange County height restriction is just a small minded arbitrary piece of horsecrap geared towards greasing local politicians when the situation calls for it.  The NIMBY’s don’t help matters much either.

Chicago lured Boeing a few years ago, and has built the equivalent of 5 Downtown Orlando’s witthin it’s downtown within the past decade.  Don’t fool yourselves into thinking that Orlando is so cosmopolitan with all of these OBJ statistics etc., and rate of growth.  The OBJ is geared to make locals feel more satisfied with less.  They pump up vision projects and pipe dreams.  Downtown and neighborhood development has been nuts in Chicago.  No city in Florida or the South can touch Chicago or ever will.   The last building boom...hello... Chicago and New York were the top two cities being developed with Miami a distant 3rd.  Except construction never really stopped for Chicago (and NYC)).

As for New York, if Chicago built 5 Downtown Orlando’s in the past few years, double that number for New York.  Height?  FreedomTower’s roof is 1,300+ feet.  But that new condo tower off of Park Avenue is a few feet taller.  And they’ve built a few more thousand-footers as well in The Battery and Midtown; some office and some residential.  It’s sick.   Make no mistake about it.  Not tall enough for you by what standard?  The SOM designed Burj Khalifa?

I saw the original renderings for the OCCC in either Architectural Digest or another publication at UF’s College of Architecture library  back in like 1993.  It was supposed to be over 500’ tall.  When I moved here in 1997, I was very disappointed to learn how much they chopped it down.  And this jumbo jumbo about Suntrust’s height- btw, Suntrust was designed by Chicago’s SOM.

Orlando is growing at a pace, fast or slow, however you describe it, but, per capital, those other two cities are tearing it up.  Buddy is doing a good job, but Orlando needs more money.  Disney, Universal, the OCCC, Medical City are skewing the perception of what Orlando still is, which is a small town.  Every new project is a good thing, but Orlando needs that development times a factor of 3.  Orlando’s development rate downtown is really just on life support, whereas the bare minimum is being built to maintain a somewhat similar per capital pace with other cities..

This is why I and others have been preaching how important Brightline is to this place, and why the loss of the 7 star Solis smarted so much, and why The Eye was so important, and why I hoped Maglev would get built to connect OIA to I-Drive.  Because perception is reality, and the perception to the visitor would be that, wow, Orlando is sooo cosmopolitan because they have a train that connects to Miami, and they have a train to their convention center, and they have CRT.  DPAC is a perception changer, but is nothing compared to, of all places, Akron, OH, and the addition they did to their art museum which is ridiculous Euro architect cutting edge.  It makes DPAC look...normal.

I’m sorry, I’ve got blood ties with the Windy City and like to play in NYC.  I want more for this place than just breadcrumbs.  Those two cities are really unfair comparisons, but you gotta aim high.  

Just as an aside, the OCCC was neck and neck size wise with McCormick Place.  But, the Chicago machine wouldn’t have it so they expanded yet again by a lot to maintain that size gap.  That’s what they do.  Orlando needs to do that- and they are, with projects like the OCCC expansion proposal and OIA expansion.  They need more- much more.

Yes, I’m adding another point:  Saying that Orlando is one of the fastest growing cities in a comparison to an already established major city, is like comparing UCF to Michigan or even UF based on the same thing.

 

Edited by jrs2
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1 hour ago, jrs2 said:

Well, since we’re unpacking the luggage, let’s dig in deep to the fact pocket of this piece of  Samsonite and look for the bag of numbing truth to counteract the condition afflicting many called fanboyism:

The Eye is in Orange County nowhere near OIA and there is a 500’ height limit.  At least the 550’ height limit in Sunny Isles was justified b/c of Opa Locka Airport’s runways.  But the Orange County height restriction is just a small minded arbitrary piece of horsecrap geared towards greasing local politicians when the situation calls for it.  The NIMBY’s don’t help matters much either.

Chicago lured Boeing a few years ago, and has built the equivalent of 5 Downtown Orlando’s witthin it’s downtown within the past decade.  Don’t fool yourselves into thinking that Orlando is so cosmopolitan with all of these OBJ statistics etc., and rate of growth.  The OBJ is geared to make locals feel more satisfied with less.  They pump up vision projects and pipe dreams.  Downtown and neighborhood development has been nuts in Chicago.  No city in Florida or the South can touch Chicago or ever will.   The last building boom...hello... Chicago and New York were the top two cities being developed with Miami a distant 3rd.  Except construction never really stopped for Chicago (and NYC)).

As for New York, if Chicago built 5 Downtown Orlando’s in the past few years, double that number for New York.  Height?  FreedomTower’s roof is 1,300+ feet.  But that new condo tower off of Park Avenue is a few feet taller.  And they’ve built a few more thousand-footers as well in The Battery and Midtown; some office and some residential.  It’s sick.   Make no mistake about it.  Not tall enough for you by what standard?  The SOM designed Burj Khalifa?

I saw the original renderings for the OCCC in either Architectural Digest or another publication at UF’s College of Architecture library  back in like 1993.  It was supposed to be over 500’ tall.  When I moved here in 1997, I was very disappointed to learn how much they chopped it down.  And this jumbo jumbo about Suntrust’s height- btw, Suntrust was designed by Chicago’s SOM.

Orlando is growing at a pace, fast or slow, however you describe it, but, per capital, those other two cities are tearing it up.  Buddy is doing a good job, but Orlando needs more money.  Disney, Universal, the OCCC, Medical City are skewing the perception of what Orlando still is, which is a small town.  Every new project is a good thing, but Orlando needs that development times a factor of 3.  Orlando’s development rate downtown is really just on life support, whereas the bare minimum is being built to maintain a somewhat similar per capital pace with other cities..

This is why I and others have been preaching how important Brightline is to this place, and why the loss of the 7 star Solis smarted so much, and why The Eye was so important, and why I hoped Maglev would get built to connect OIA to I-Drive.  Because perception is reality, and the perception to the visitor would be that, wow, Orlando is sooo cosmopolitan because they have a train that connects to Miami, and they have a train to their convention center, and they have CRT.  DPAC is a perception changer, but is nothing compared to, of all places, Akron, OH, and the addition they did to their art museum which is ridiculous Euro architect cutting edge.  It makes DPAC look...normal.

I’m sorry, I’ve got blood ties with the Windy City and like to play in NYC.  I want more for this place than just breadcrumbs.  Those two cities are really unfair comparisons, but you gotta aim high.  

Just as an aside, the OCCC was neck and neck size wise with McCormick Place.  But, the Chicago machine wouldn’t have it so they expanded yet again by a lot to maintain that size gap.  That’s what they do.  Orlando needs to do that- and they are, with projects like the OCCC expansion proposal and OIA expansion.  They need more- much more.

Yes, I’m adding another point:  Saying that Orlando is one of the fastest growing cities in a comparison to an already established major city, is like comparing UCF to Michigan or even UF based on the same thing.

Who in their right mind would even WANT to turn idyllic Orlando into anything remotely close to another Chicago or New York to begin with??? 

The very notion of it is insane. :blink:

No offense intended, but to all the bolded text passages above, my response is a hearty BS!!!

All we "need", or in the case of most of us (I think anyway) want, is for a couple of new downtown buildings to break the 40 story barrier.

As for the rest of that hard charging, gung-ho business, I hope your "vision" for Orlando never comes anywhere close to happening. Orlando can remain a wonderful place to live, work and play without turning into a giant megalopolis and destroying the fragile natural environment that surrounds us, with the urban sprawl that would inevitably accompany it.

We've already got Miami for that.

Sorry if this sounded a bit on the contentious side, but just the thought of my town turning into what you suggest that it should, kinda gets my hackles up. 

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