Vertical Medical City | 40-Story Medical High Rise [Proposed]

[aent]

5 hours ago, I am Reality said:

That is a reasonable position.  I have no problem with that. My point is that there is a reason we don't have more vibrant downtown and taller buildings. It's a function of demand.

I have many (literally dozens) of friends who have moved from the area for work or school. They are gone and will never return. There is a brain drain for professionals. There is an economic void here that other places just don't have.  It is unique to Orlando (and probably Vegas).  When I lived elsewhere, people did not look favorably at Orlando.  It kind of has a joke reputation. I don't think they myself and I know we can do better.

I look around here and see so many people struggling just to get by. They are good, hardworking people. This morning's Sentinel website had a headline about Orlando's wages being below the national average (expect cooks & waiters)

People here deserve better.  I see a lot misplaced priorities, like the convention center.  I am fine if trade shows go to Las Vegas rather than here.  We can actually stand up & say we don't want more of those jobs.  

It's not a race to the bottom.

We need to find the political will to improve the quality of jobs here.  I am sure everyone would agree. 

Obviously different people have different priorities and desires, not every city will be a fit for everyone. If I wasn't living in Orlando, I'd likely live in Vegas, I find the development exciting, tons of stuff to do, and overall good weather, and Orlando avoids many of the problems I had with South Florida, where I previously have lived. I tend to like to live in the areas people love to visit.

But you keep saying "jobs jobs jobs" and we need to worry about creating jobs, but then in the next sentence its "lets get rid of a ton of jobs in the tourism sector". Even though those companies, and the convention center, produce tons of low paying jobs, you need to understand for the companies that ARE here, those are major reasons they are. Out of college, my first job (which would be considered high paying) was at a company that told me the reason they have a location in Orlando is our convention center, and the other companies that are located here because of the convention center. They wanted local experts on their products to be able to manage setting it up, tearing it down, and not having to worry about transporting expensive and custom systems thousands of miles away. Along with a ton of other peer companies, and then because all of these companies have locations here, they also view it as a great collaboration zone. Its convienent and easy for companies to meet and collaborate wherever their HQ is by going to Orlando, because the area is so accessible by air, and is affordable most of the year. If we start losing conventions, many of those companies that have smaller locations here, and have high paying jobs attached to them, would disappear. Why locate here if the conventions will be in Vegas and they can do the same thing over there?

And what in the world do you think we would gain by removing focus on the convention center? It easily funds itself, and its economic impact leaves money left over for other improvements to the city, like the arts center and sports venues. It brings in money we could use to focus on getting high paying jobs and to fund the improvements you're saying we want. Without the tourism and the convention center.... Orlando likely is nothing. Development would move east to the space coast. We'd lose our sources of income. We'd lose the quality of life we do have that causes the companies that have located here to do so. We just have nothing to gain by taking that strategy. I'm not fine with giving up the advantages Orlando does have in the market and standing up and chasing away jobs, even if they aren't the ideal ones. We can get both.

We have plenty of people excited here for Creative Village, which many believe will help attract more companies to the area, and not following your narrative of what we believe either, I don't think anyone believes we're about to see our tallest buildings on the west side of I4. Its just about bringing some higher paying jobs into more areas of Orlando, wherever that may be, and trying to help the entire community improve. It may not have been an urban development like everyone here would have hoped, but I am excited for Lake Nona bringing lots of new high paying jobs to the area and working to create a new, unique high end neighborhood. We'd all love more high paying jobs to get here, but you're just saying "take away what makes Orlando unique" as your strategy to get them, and thats not what the people of Orlando desire to do.

Remember, Orlando is an internationally recognized city, and it did that not by being as large as other internationally recognized cities, or being as old and historic as others, but through tourism, as being the happiest place on earth, being family friendly, etc, and abandoning that, even if it means lower paying jobs, is rediculous, ill advised, and will just hurt the people who are here. We're in the verge of Universal likely doubling its number of employees, and that likely means creating new engineering/creative jobs, new management jobs, and, yes, a crapload of new low paying front line service jobs, but if Universal does what they're trying to do, doubling the size of their park, and thus, their workforce over the next couple years... wages will go up for everyone, more homes will be built, density will increase, more tax dollars (especially from tourists) will be available to add more incentives to try to attract more high paying jobs. And keep in mind all rumors point to Universal's major expansion being directly related to the convention center and a desire to capture those visitors, extend their stay, and get them to spend more in Orlando.

[I am Reality]

8 hours ago, aent said:

Obviously different people have different priorities and desires, not every city will be a fit for everyone. If I wasn't living in Orlando, I'd likely live in Vegas, I find the development exciting, tons of stuff to do, and overall good weather, and Orlando avoids many of the problems I had with South Florida, where I previously have lived. I tend to like to live in the areas people love to visit.

But you keep saying "jobs jobs jobs" and we need to worry about creating jobs, but then in the next sentence its "lets get rid of a ton of jobs in the tourism sector". Even though those companies, and the convention center, produce tons of low paying jobs, you need to understand for the companies that ARE here, those are major reasons they are. Out of college, my first job (which would be considered high paying) was at a company that told me the reason they have a location in Orlando is our convention center, and the other companies that are located here because of the convention center. They wanted local experts on their products to be able to manage setting it up, tearing it down, and not having to worry about transporting expensive and custom systems thousands of miles away. Along with a ton of other peer companies, and then because all of these companies have locations here, they also view it as a great collaboration zone. Its convienent and easy for companies to meet and collaborate wherever their HQ is by going to Orlando, because the area is so accessible by air, and is affordable most of the year. If we start losing conventions, many of those companies that have smaller locations here, and have high paying jobs attached to them, would disappear. Why locate here if the conventions will be in Vegas and they can do the same thing over there?

And what in the world do you think we would gain by removing focus on the convention center? It easily funds itself, and its economic impact leaves money left over for other improvements to the city, like the arts center and sports venues. It brings in money we could use to focus on getting high paying jobs and to fund the improvements you're saying we want. Without the tourism and the convention center.... Orlando likely is nothing. Development would move east to the space coast. We'd lose our sources of income. We'd lose the quality of life we do have that causes the companies that have located here to do so. We just have nothing to gain by taking that strategy. I'm not fine with giving up the advantages Orlando does have in the market and standing up and chasing away jobs, even if they aren't the ideal ones. We can get both.

We have plenty of people excited here for Creative Village, which many believe will help attract more companies to the area, and not following your narrative of what we believe either, I don't think anyone believes we're about to see our tallest buildings on the west side of I4. Its just about bringing some higher paying jobs into more areas of Orlando, wherever that may be, and trying to help the entire community improve. It may not have been an urban development like everyone here would have hoped, but I am excited for Lake Nona bringing lots of new high paying jobs to the area and working to create a new, unique high end neighborhood. We'd all love more high paying jobs to get here, but you're just saying "take away what makes Orlando unique" as your strategy to get them, and thats not what the people of Orlando desire to do.

Remember, Orlando is an internationally recognized city, and it did that not by being as large as other internationally recognized cities, or being as old and historic as others, but through tourism, as being the happiest place on earth, being family friendly, etc, and abandoning that, even if it means lower paying jobs, is rediculous, ill advised, and will just hurt the people who are here. We're in the verge of Universal likely doubling its number of employees, and that likely means creating new engineering/creative jobs, new management jobs, and, yes, a crapload of new low paying front line service jobs, but if Universal does what they're trying to do, doubling the size of their park, and thus, their workforce over the next couple years... wages will go up for everyone, more homes will be built, density will increase, more tax dollars (especially from tourists) will be available to add more incentives to try to attract more high paying jobs. And keep in mind all rumors point to Universal's major expansion being directly related to the convention center and a desire to capture those visitors, extend their stay, and get them to spend more in Orlando.

Orlando has the lowest average wages among the 50 top employment centers nationwide. Something is obviously wrong with the economy. 

What do you think is the problem?  I'm not trying to be sarcastic. Problems can't be fixed until they are recognized. What is the problem? I think it's a pretty fundamental question. Why didn't Amazon even consider Orlando in its final 20 lists (when smaller cities with no public trans were chosen)?  To put in language that UrbanPlanet viewers seem to prefer, why aren't there more tall buildings here? 

[Dale]

19 minutes ago, I am Reality said:

Orlando has the lowest average wages among the 50 top employment centers nationwide. Something is obviously wrong with the economy. 

What do you think is the problem?  I'm not trying to be sarcastic. Problems can't be fixed until they are recognized. What is the problem? I think it's a pretty fundamental question. Why didn't Amazon even consider Orlando in its final 20 lists (when smaller cities with no public trans were chosen)?  To put in language that UrbanPlanet viewers seem to prefer, why aren't there more tall buildings here? 

This collides with everything I've been reading which coincides with Orlando leading all larger cities in jobs, STEM jobs and wage growth. Maybe it's growing from an abysmal position to begin with ?

[AndyPok1]

59 minutes ago, I am Reality said:

Orlando has the lowest average wages among the 50 top employment centers nationwide. Something is obviously wrong with the economy. 

I don't agree.  When you have the nation's (worlds?) largest single-site employer in WDW, plus Universal, Sea World, and all the others, that's going to drag down averages.  That's how statistics work.  There will never be enough ridiculously high paying jobs on the other end of the spectrum to balance out those 50,000+ [close-to] minimum-wage jobs that are a part of the backbone of our economy.  However, they have absolutely no negative impact on the amount of "good" jobs that are ALSO here.

[I am Reality]

42 minutes ago, AndyPok1 said:

I don't agree.  When you have the nation's (worlds?) largest single-site employer in WDW, plus Universal, Sea World, and all the others, that's going to drag down averages.  That's how statistics work.  There will never be enough ridiculously high paying jobs on the other end of the spectrum to balance out those 50,000+ [close-to] minimum-wage jobs that are a part of the backbone of our economy.  However, they have absolutely no negative impact on the amount of "good" jobs that are ALSO here.

How to you account for the lack of corporate jobs & HQs here?

Again, Amazon doesn't think Orlando is even a TOP 20 location for a corporate office. Sorry folks, that is an indictment on our economy.

I would again refer you to my previous list of similar-sized or smaller cities with corporate HQs, large law firms, finance jobs and tech jobs.  Raw numbers...not on a percentage basis. The list is long  (i.e. Seattle, San Jose, Vancouver, Denver, Austin, Columbus, Charlotte, Raleigh-Durham, Pittsburg, San Diego, San Antonio, even tiny Salt Lake City).

[Dale]

31 minutes ago, I am Reality said:

How to you account for the lack of corporate jobs & HQs here?

Again, Amazon doesn't think Orlando is even a TOP 20 location for a corporate office. Sorry folks, that is an indictment on our economy.

I would again refer you to my previous list of similar-sized or smaller cities with corporate HQs, large law firms, finance jobs and tech jobs.  Raw numbers...not on a percentage basis. The list is long  (i.e. Seattle, San Jose, Vancouver, Denver, Austin, Columbus, Charlotte, Raleigh-Durham, Pittsburg, San Diego, San Antonio, even tiny Salt Lake City).

Charlotte didn't make the top 20 either.  And the economy is booming up here.

[bqknight]

40 minutes ago, Dale said:

Charlotte didn't make the top 20 either.  And the economy is booming up here.

Dude has a MAJOR obsession with the Amazon thing. 

[IAmFloridaBorn]

1 hour ago, I am Reality said:

How to you account for the lack of corporate jobs & HQs here?

Again, Amazon doesn't think Orlando is even a TOP 20 location for a corporate office. Sorry folks, that is an indictment on our economy.

I would again refer you to my previous list of similar-sized or smaller cities with corporate HQs, large law firms, finance jobs and tech jobs.  Raw numbers...not on a percentage basis. The list is long  (i.e. Seattle, San Jose, Vancouver, Denver, Austin, Columbus, Charlotte, Raleigh-Durham, Pittsburg, San Diego, San Antonio, even tiny Salt Lake City).

You say it like cooperate headquarters for most companies aren't already in place. Orlando wasn't as prominant in the mind of the world 30-40 years ago as it is today, even if it is for the happiest place to visit, people today still know what it is. When HQ's were building thousands of jobs and seeking 400,000 sq ft plus in urban cores, Orlando wasn't in that thought of competing. Not Orlando's fault. Times have changes now.

 

Alot of the companies rather have low rise campuses if possible and branched out regional Hq's and it isn't as a big of an importance for major companies to do too much moving around.  These smaller companies that continue to bring high paying tech, industrial jobs little by little in unincorporated or smaller cities around central FLorida is good for Orlando because it shows not just the city but our entire regional area is becoming more desirable. Orlando will continue to put roots down as a anchor city to an area that has PLENTY to offer from the business and pleasure side.

[I am Reality]

34 minutes ago, Dale said:

Charlotte didn't make the top 20 either.  And the economy is booming up here.

 

38 minutes ago, Dale said:

Charlotte didn't make the top 20 either.  And the economy is booming up here.

I listed 12 cities and forgot many others like Minneapolis (Target HQ) and Portland (probably the most diverse economy in the nation).  And you  pick out 1 of the 12 cities I mentioned? 

Okay...let's talk about Charlotte.  Charlotte is the national HQ of Bank of America, Duke Energy (the nation's largest energy company), BB&T, Lowes and Nucor. It's  not well-known, but Nucor is a large, innovative company written about as the model business in "Good to Great."  Charlotte also has an NFL team & light rail.

Do you mean THAT Charlotte? 

Tell me the corporate HQs in Orlando again?

 

 

[I am Reality]

10 minutes ago, IAmFloridaBorn said:

You say it like cooperate headquarters for most companies aren't already in place. Orlando wasn't as prominant in the mind of the world 30-40 years ago as it is today, even if it is for the happiest place to visit, people today still know what it is. When HQ's were building thousands of jobs and seeking 400,000 sq ft plus in urban cores, Orlando wasn't in that thought of competing. Not Orlando's fault. Times have changes now.

 

Alot of the companies rather have low rise campuses if possible and branched out regional Hq's and it isn't as a big of an importance for major companies to do too much moving around.  These smaller companies that continue to bring high paying tech, industrial jobs little by little in unincorporated or smaller cities around central FLorida is good for Orlando because it shows not just the city but our entire regional area is becoming more desirable. Orlando will continue to put roots down as a anchor city to an area that has PLENTY to offer from the business and pleasure side.

All I see in this website are people saying they want taller buildings. I thought maybe the "tall building" thing was somehow a proxy for wanting a strong economy. But I have learned that people on this website really want tall buildings. It misses the larger picture.  I have no problem with that though.

But it demonstrates to me that people here are NOT happy and that they long for something more. Why else world anyone write a post about wanting a 40 story building, unless they want to be part of something bigger and better?  Everyone is sooo proud....yet want something different. It's totally inconsistent. 

But you raise the issue of low rise buildings. Every city in the nation (big or small) has its share of low rise and mid rise buildings.

[IAmFloridaBorn]

33 minutes ago, I am Reality said:

All I see in this website are people saying they want taller buildings. I thought maybe the "tall building" thing was somehow a proxy for wanting a strong economy. But I have learned that people on this website really want tall buildings. It misses the larger picture.  I have no problem with that though.

But it demonstrates to me that people here are NOT happy and that they long for something more. Why else world anyone write a post about wanting a 40 story building, unless they want to be part of something bigger and better?  Everyone is sooo proud....yet want something different. It's totally inconsistent. 

But you raise the issue of low rise buildings. Every city in the nation (big or small) has its share of low rise and mid rise buildings.

 

That my friend is an entirely different debate. I'm apart of a number of forums and have been since I was an adolescent  .  There is a 'Thing' for tall buildings in the WORLD.  Not just Urban Planet Orlando, but the entire world has a thing for tall building s and structures it's been that way. That goes into what history or culture that particular city, or area is wanting to create. I stand by the idea that there is NOTHING wrong with a unique or specific history a city or even groups of people want to be apart of.  That visual and 'Feel Good' aspect is something that will be around forever.
 

And there is nothing wrong with low rise buildings. It just shouldnt be 'Lets rain down on those who want tall buildings' All the time.

 

[spenser1058]

Meanwhile, I'm not going to mention Dr. Freud. Nope, not at all. *giggles*

[prahaboheme]

10 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

Meanwhile, I'm not going to mention Dr. Freud. Nope, not at all. *giggles*

I now understand fully the concept of the looking-glass self!

[Dale]

3 hours ago, I am Reality said:

 

I listed 12 cities and forgot many others like Minneapolis (Target HQ) and Portland (probably the most diverse economy in the nation).  And you  pick out 1 of the 12 cities I mentioned? 

Okay...let's talk about Charlotte.  Charlotte is the national HQ of Bank of America, Duke Energy (the nation's largest energy company), BB&T, Lowes and Nucor. It's  not well-known, but Nucor is a large, innovative company written about as the model business in "Good to Great."  Charlotte also has an NFL team & light rail.

Do you mean THAT Charlotte? 

Tell me the corporate HQs in Orlando again?

 

 

 

3 hours ago, I am Reality said:

 

I listed 12 cities and forgot many others like Minneapolis (Target HQ) and Portland (probably the most diverse economy in the nation).  And you  pick out 1 of the 12 cities I mentioned? 

Okay...let's talk about Charlotte.  Charlotte is the national HQ of Bank of America, Duke Energy (the nation's largest energy company), BB&T, Lowes and Nucor. It's  not well-known, but Nucor is a large, innovative company written about as the model business in "Good to Great."  Charlotte also has an NFL team & light rail.

Do you mean THAT Charlotte? 

Tell me the corporate HQs in Orlando again?

 

 

Thanks for making my point. You're whining about Orlando's lack of corporate clout. I picked a city that punches above its weight, in that category, that got the unceremonious boot by Amazon.

[spenser1058]

2 minutes ago, Dale said:

 

Thanks for making my point. You're whining about Orlando's lack of corporate clout. I picked a city that punches above its weight, in that category, that got the unceremonious boot by Amazon.

And also has our light rail!

[Dale]

1 minute ago, spenser1058 said:

And also has our light rail!

Eh, sorry about that.

I do have this lament about Orlando: a seemingly stubborn lack of traction with highrises downtown. This "mini-boom" was years in the making. I think downtown Hollywood, FL has more highrises under construction downtown.

[orange87]

Orlando has two Fortune ranked corporate headquarters, which is pretty good considering how new of a city Orlando is.

Darden Restaurants #385
Tupperware Brands #886

[I am Reality]

12 minutes ago, Dale said:

 

Thanks for making my point. You're whining about Orlando's lack of corporate clout. I picked a city that punches above its weight, in that category, that got the unceremonious boot by Amazon.

 I am glad you are so dismissive about "Orlando's lack of corporate clout."  Charlotte has 5X the economy Orlando has.  I can't speak on behalf of Amazon, but Charlotte does not need it nearly as much as Orlando does.

But then again, why would we need or want 20k great-paying jobs & 5 billion in instant investment?

Total loser mentality. 

[alex]

6 hours ago, AndyPok1 said:

...When you have the nation's (worlds?) largest single-site employer in WDW, plus Universal, Sea World...50,000+ [close-to] minimum-wage jobs that are a part of the backbone of our economy...

 

59 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

And also has our light rail!

 

If we're going to be OK with having an economic backbone that consists of minimum-wage jobs (which in reality means they are making less than half of a living wage) then we need to cater to those people. By that I mean we need to have 1) robust affordable housing programs and 2) efficient public transportation. We have the advantage of cheap, plentiful land and concentrated, single-site employers—perfect conditions for transit-oriented workforce housing. However, our development regulations and infrastructure funding priorities favor $1,400-per-month one-bedroom apartments and car-dependency. Basically, we're expecting people making $20,000 a year to pay $20,000 a year in rent and car-related expenses.

Our environment is not set up in a way that encourages the next generation to qualify as high-skilled employees that start or attract new companies. In a roundabout way I have to agree with I am Reality that what we're doing right now is not how you get an educated workforce, attract HQs, and get notable buildings. As much as I'm an Orlando-cheerleader like the rest of you, we really need to hold politicians, developers, and other community leaders to higher standards. While I don't want to negate our city's recent achievements, you have to admit a lot of grand plans either never left the drawing board or materialized as cobbled-together stop-gaps that never get improved upon (case in point: SunRail).

[bqknight]

1 hour ago, I am Reality said:

 I am glad you are so dismissive about "Orlando's lack of corporate clout."  Charlotte has 5X the economy Orlando has.  I can't speak on behalf of Amazon, but Charlotte does not need it nearly as much as Orlando does.

But then again, why would we need or want 20k great-paying jobs & 5 billion in instant investment?

Total loser mentality. 

Everyone WANTS all of these things you are stating - but it's not as easy as snapping your fingers. What people are trying to say is we're headed in the right direction. 

You're on a forum that discusses buildings and development in Orlando. Of course people are talking about tall buildings. I don't see what your issue is?

Honestly, it sounds like Orlando is NOT the city for you. There's many you've listed that seem to be a better fit. 

[I am Reality]

19 minutes ago, bqknight said:

Everyone WANTS all of these things you are stating - but it's not as easy as snapping your fingers. What people are trying to say is we're headed in the right direction. 

You're on a forum that discusses buildings and development in Orlando. Of course people are talking about tall buildings. I don't see what your issue is?

Honestly, it sounds like Orlando is NOT the city for you. There's many you've listed that seem to be a better fit. 

Don't question my motivations.  From what I can tell, I am the only true believer here. What have you done to mark the city a better place?  Make innate postings about buildings? This is an urban development website...not a real estate website. I have been banging my head all week trying to get people to realize how poor the economy is here. I get lots of excuses...Disney...we're "new"...things are getting better. That's such lackadaisical bullcrap.  

People in other cities would REFUSE TO ACCEPT our current economy.  People don't even seem to realize there is a problem. Nothing is going to change because people have a buried their head in the sand.

My suggestion...if you really like tall buildings, take your defeatist loser mentality and move to NYC.  Seriously. Because the economy here cannot support tall buildings. You are living a lie and trying to be something you are not.

Don't question m motivations again. I at least am trying to make things better.

[dcluley98]

 

[JFW657]

34 minutes ago, I am Reality said:

Don't question my motivations.  

Don't question my motivations again.

I at least am trying to make things better.

And what exactly is it that you're "doing" outside of trolling this message board and claiming to to live here?

I question your motivations.

[Dale]

2 hours ago, I am Reality said:

 I am glad you are so dismissive about "Orlando's lack of corporate clout."  Charlotte has 5X the economy Orlando has.  I can't speak on behalf of Amazon, but Charlotte does not need it nearly as much as Orlando does.

But then again, why would we need or want 20k great-paying jobs & 5 billion in instant investment?

Total loser mentality. 

Charlotte has 5 X the economy Orlando has, a muscular skyline to match, two light rail lines and two streetcar lines. It's why Charlotte was awarded HQ2.

Oh wait, it didn't get HQ2 any more than Orlando did.

 

 

[dcluley98]

I agree with Alex. As for Reality, yeah we get it, we need more higher paying jobs, no crap?!!  It's not like you can just wish them into existence. Unless you plan on personally starting a Fortune 500 company in the next couple of days and handing out $75k salaries to a bunch of millennials or get elected to public office and start to shift the tourism tax to corporate incentives or start an Ivy League university downtown, you are doing nothing by spouting off the same tired bullcrap. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. 

Oh I know let's build a bunch of fake fudgeing trees like Singapore, I'm sure then that everything will be magically fixed and we can all ride to work on flying unicorns with our model significant-others while we get paid six figures to solve the world's problems and end poverty. Brilliant! I sure am glad SOMEBODY is doing SOMETHING!