CATS Long Term Transit Plan - Silver, Red Lines

[15895]

34 minutes ago, Dale said:

And I'm all about private enterprise.

 

Youll love the toll roads in lake Norman then

[Dale]

1 minute ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

 

Youll love the toll roads in lake Norman then

Toll roads wouldn't be so bad if they didn't constitute a double-tax.

[15895]

1 hour ago, Dale said:

Toll roads wouldn't be so bad if they didn't constitute a double-tax.

 

Eh. I’ll pay my transportation tax and I’ll pay for my monthly WMATA metro “double tax” (aka my monthly pass) on top of that. So I’ll agree with you there. Boo double tax. 

[Dale]

Come to think of it though, where would you find private enterprise ? I-77 ain't exactly it.

[southslider]

^For 77, NCDOT found it in one foreign firm.

[kermit]

RWNJs in Raleigh have found a new way to give the middle finger to any city hoping to build transit in the state. This policy makes it effectively impossible to get state funding for rail transit projects.

Raleigh never had a chance with Amazon anyway but gezzz

https://gotriangle.org/news/state-budget-proposal-could-impact-planned-transit-projects

and here is he more readble N+O version of the buffonery:

http://www.heraldsun.com/news/local/counties/orange-county/article212093329.html

Quote

The budget, released Monday night, would require GoTriangle and Durham and Orange counties to have all the local and federal money for the light-rail project before seeking state funding. The problem is the federal grant program — expected to pay for half of the light rail project's costs — requires them to have a commitment for all the local and state money.

 

Edited May 29, 2018 by kermit

[Matthew.Brendan]

So asinine. 

[orulz]

This is crazy. I wasn't happy about how state share has been reduced from 25% to 10% but it is what it is: what do you expect from an all-Republican legislature.

I could also honestly understand a rule that no state funding can be *spent* until a project has all its local and federal sources in hand. Let the agencies put up their own money during the planning process so the state doesn't pour money into a project only to have it fail due to losing its federal grant application.  This is actually what happened back in 2005 - state money was spent on planning, property acquisition, and even some utility relocation work, and then the project died. As a major source of funding for transit projects, this condition would be understandable as a right-leaning legislature's prerogative (although no such condition exists for most roadway projects). So, if the federal grant application fails, then the money allocated to the project by the state can be reallocated elsewhere - nothing lost on the state's behalf except a few man hours of planning staff time, which would also be nothing unusual since committed roadway projects get cancelled or rescheduled all the time.

But saying you can't even submit for prioritization before all other funding is committed is a blatant attempt to kill all state involvement in transit capital projects. It's so blatant I think it might not be truly intentional, and that even right-leaning legislators would consider an amendment. Possibly the people who drafted that bit don't understand how the New Starts process works.

[JacksonH]

On 5/28/2018 at 9:45 PM, kermit said:

RWNJs in Raleigh have found a new way to give the middle finger to any city hoping to build transit in the state. This policy makes it effectively impossible to get state funding for rail transit projects.

Raleigh never had a chance with Amazon anyway but gezzz

https://gotriangle.org/news/state-budget-proposal-could-impact-planned-transit-projects

and here is he more readble N+O version of the buffonery:

http://www.heraldsun.com/news/local/counties/orange-county/article212093329.html

 

Neanderthals

[JacksonH]

There's a book that came out several months ago called How Democracies Die.  It's an excellent book, and a warning for our country.  There's a section in this book calling out North Carolina because this state, according to the authors, is a microcosm of what's happening at the national level, but further along a dangerous and undemocratic path.  There is very little light in the darkness of the North Carolina General Assembly in Raleigh.  One of those lights is this representative from Mecklenburg.  

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 1, 2018 by JacksonH

[deleted]

Unlike many of you, I don't view one party as better than the other (they are both irredeemably corrupt and ineffective and neither cares about the people they claim to represent).  You can call that a false equivalency if you want but there are too many examples of party leaders doing the wrong thing for personal or partisan advantage.  If people want this fixed (I see no evidence that they do), they should insist on both term limits and non-partisan redistricting.

I also think all of this discussion belongs in the Coffee House and that it's unhelpful to reference right wing nut jobs in a post about transit.  I 100% support transit but reasonable people can honestly debate the merits of public transportation (particularly rail) without being characterized as such.  Also, neither party distinguished themselves (at all) when running the GA.

[JacksonH]

There are corrupt politicians on both sides of the aisle.  We can all agree with that because we've all seen the many examples.  That's not in question.  It's what's happening and being accepted systematically.  Check out How Democracies Die.  There's a whole lot of food for thought in that book.  Some key takeaways: The Constitution alone has not kept this country together.  In fact, we went into a civil war in spite of this document.  And most of the countries in South America drafted their own constitutions based (in some cases word for word) on our own constitution, yet most of those same countries subsequently fell into dictatorships.  Unlike the old days, dictatorships don't always come in the form of coups, but often initially democratically (e.g., Hugo Chavez in Venezuela) and sometimes little by little over the course of many years.   What has held the U.S. together since the Civil War is not the Constitution alone, but a set of norms that emphasize forbearance and restraint, and strong institutions that keep one another in check.  But today we are seeing norms being busted and these institutions being undermined.  

[kermit]

On 6/1/2018 at 2:45 PM, JBS said:

I also think all of this discussion belongs in the Coffee House and that it's unhelpful to reference right wing nut jobs in a post about transit.  I 100% support transit but reasonable people can honestly debate the merits of public transportation (particularly rail) without being characterized as such.  

While I generally agree with you on all counts above (coffee house included), I have given it some thought and  view the contemporary republican party (tea party and trump branches) as an exception to the traditional rules of civilized discourse — their actions simply don’t justify my grace. They (in this case the Berger and Moore led NCGA) have consistently shown themselves to be driven by ideology rather than evidence (e.g. they behave irrationally from the perspective of forming sound public policy). In addition, their actions have frequently been undemocratic (more bluntly they are acting like fascists in training). Their power grabs from the office of the governor and the most recent budget “negotiation” being prime examples.

As it relates to transit, the republican NCGA created a reasonably decent scoring system which was designed to take  politics out of transportation spending decisions. Transit projects scored very well in their new system, but instead of funding it as they promised, they decided (without any debate) to hold transit projects to an entirely different (and completely arbitrary) set of rules that effectively make state funding impossible to obtain. Their actions show that they have zero respect for public feedback on this issue.

Furthermore, over  the past decade, the NCGA has actively and intentionally worked to diminish two of my state’s most powerful economic engines, our cities and our public Universities. The importance of healthy (and large) cities  along with  human capital for economic growth is beyond dispute in the field of economics, but the NCGA feels like their ideology trumps scientific consensus. You can’t have reasonable debate with people who choose to  ignore evidence and thumb their nose at logic.

As a native North Carolinian I am not willing to use language that normalizes their destructive and undemocratic behavior. Without even the pretense of debate these  guys have done significant damage to my fiscal well-being. In addition they have created a climate that  will make my daughter leave the state for college and be unlikely to return — similar types of damage have been done to millions of other North Carolinians. I am not going to dismiss their efforts which intentionally target me (as a resident of Charlotte and member of a family that values tolerance) as merely a difference of opinion. These guys are actively working to destroy places that I have spent a lifetime living, working and investing in. Since they are unwilling to listen to polite protests (the budget shows that) what is an appropriate response to their attacks on my wealth, happiness and family? 

(sorry about the rant.  I am an unaffiliated voter who is unable to take anyone on the right seriously until they show me that they have the ability to participate in informed and rational debate)

Edit: my apologies to JBS, I did not intend to refer to anyone here as a RWNJ, it was strictly a reference to the NCGA.

Edited June 3, 2018 by kermit

[deleted]

On 6/1/2018 at 3:40 PM, kermit said:

While I generally agree with you on all counts above (coffee house included), I have given it some thought and  view the contemporary republican party (tea party and trump branches) as an exception to the traditional rules of civilized discourse — their actions simply don’t justify my grace. They (in this case the Berger and Moore led NCGA) have consistently shown themselves to be driven by ideology rather than evidence (e.g. they behave irrationally from the perspective of forming sound public policy). In addition, their actions have frequently been undemocratic (more bluntly they are acting like fascists in training). Their power grabs from the office of the governor and the most recent budget “negotiation” being prime examples.

As it relates to transit, the republican NCGA created a reasonably decent scoring system which was designed to take  politics out of transportation spending decisions. Transit projects scored very well in their new system, but instead of funding it as they promised, they decided (without any debate) to hold transit projects to an entirely different (and completely arbitrary) set of rules that effectively make state funding impossible to obtain. Their actions show that they have zero respect for public feedback on this issue.

Furthermore, over  the past decade, the NCGA has actively and intentionally worked to diminish two of my state’s most powerful economic engines, our cities and our public Universities. The importance of healthy (and large) cities  along with  human capital for economic growth is beyond dispute in the field of economics, but the NCGA feels like their ideology trumps scientific consensus. You can’t have reasonable debate with people who choose to  ignore evidence and thumb their nose at logic.

As a native North Carolinian I am not willing to use language that normalizes their destructive and undemocratic behavior. Without even the pretense of debate these  guys have done significant damage to my fiscal well-being. In addition they have created a climate that  will make my daughter leave the state for college and be unlikely to return — similar types of damage have been done to millions of other North Carolinians. I am not going to dismiss their efforts which intentionally target me (as a resident of Charlotte and member of a family that values tolerance) as merely a difference of opinion. These guys are actively working to destroy places that I have spent a lifetime living, working and investing in. Since they are unwilling to listen to polite protests (the budget shows that) what is an appropriate response to their attacks on my wealth, happiness and family? 

(sorry about the rant.  I am an unaffiliated voter who is unable to take anyone on the right seriously until they show me that they have the ability to participate in informed and rational debate)

Edit: my apologies to JBS, I did not intend to refer to anyone here as a RWNJ, it was strictly a reference to the NCGA.

Respectfully, I am confused about how the NCGA has done significant damage to your fiscal well-being.  I'm not a fan either but they haven't impacted me in any meaningful way (though the strong economy is helping my 401K and my home value, taxes remain low, my kids attend UNCC for bargain tuition, etc.).  I also don't see them actively working to destroy North Carolina.  Maybe I'm just missing it, you seem to have a lot of people who agree with you. 

Politicians and parties thrive on creating opposition to their opponents.  The language you use is similar to what I hear from Republicans regarding Clinton, Obama, Pelosi, etc.  In my opinion, they are all corrupt.  More to the point, they are dividing us as a country.  Fox News (which I abhor) was a response to the biased media in this country (keep in mind that I financially support PBS and love NPR).  I had a great conversation with an acquaintance at the Y prior to the election and we both detest Trump and opposed him.  He was confused and dismayed when I felt similarly (though not as strongly) about Clinton and wouldn't support her.  I badly want to support Democrats because of Trump and how Republicans have embraced him.  Unfortunately, they are pushing me away with rhetoric and dishonesty and ideas that have been proven to not work.  Dan McCready will be the first Democrat I vote for in my life but unfortunately he may be the last (I'll never vote for a Republican again).  From my perspective, nothing will ever change as long as people continue to give "their side" a pass.  

Now, back to transit! 

[JacksonH]

5 hours ago, JBS said:

Respectfully, I am confused about how the NCGA has done significant damage to your fiscal well-being.  I'm not a fan either but they haven't impacted me in any meaningful way (though the strong economy is helping my 401K and my home value, taxes remain low, my kids attend UNCC for bargain tuition, etc.).  I also don't see them actively working to destroy North Carolina.  Maybe I'm just missing it, you seem to have a lot of people who agree with you. 

Politicians and parties thrive on creating opposition to their opponents.  The language you use is similar to what I hear from Republicans regarding Clinton, Obama, Pelosi, etc.  In my opinion, they are all corrupt.  More to the point, they are dividing us as a country.  Fox News (which I abhor) was a response to the biased media in this country (keep in mind that I financially support PBS and love NPR).  I had a great conversation with an acquaintance at the Y prior to the election and we both detest Trump and opposed him.  He was confused and dismayed when I felt similarly (though not as strongly) about Clinton and wouldn't support her.  I badly want to support Democrats because of Trump and how Republicans have embraced him.  Unfortunately, they are pushing me away with rhetoric and dishonesty and ideas that have been proven to not work.  Dan McCready will be the first Democrat I vote for in my life but unfortunately he may be the last (I'll never vote for a Republican again).  From my perspective, nothing will ever change as long as people continue to give "their side" a pass.  

Now, back to transit! 

You are correct: politicians thrive on creating opposition to their opponents.  That's always been the case.  But what I'm talking about here goes way, way beyond that.  What has held our country together since the Civil War is a respect for multiple institutions that hold one another accountable -- from the three branches of government, including the courts, to national intelligence, to the media.  When FDR tried to expand to the Supreme Court and pack it with justices that would do his bidding, Congress, including significant members of both parties push back and said, Oh no you don't!  When Joe McCarthy got too powerful and began taking down too many people and threatening our democracy, Joseph N. Welch, chief counsel for the Army asked,  "At long last, have you left no sense of decency?"  That was a tipping point.  Others began joining him.  The media began joining him.   And this led to a push-back by the public.  Forty-five years ago, we had the Watergate investigations in which U.S. intelligence and the media was key.  At a certain point, members of both parties began pushing back.  The situation we are in now, there is no one pushing back except members of a party that is out of power.  Institutions that in the past we have relied upon in the absence of political pushback -- including the courts, national intelligence agencies, venerable media outlets that are deeply sourced -- are being undermined on a daily basis.  This has never happened before, not in this country.  This happens all the time in banana republics, in dictatorships throughout the world.  That's how power is seized in those place, by undermining those institutions, sowing distrust in institutions and thus allowing power to be gathered by a demagogue .  I keep harping on this book, How Democracies Die.  Your comment about how well things are going for you is exactly the type of thing this book addresses.  This is what opens the door for a chipping away of our democracy.  We have not lost it yet, but our institutions are weakening.  The weaker they get, the more vulnerable we become.  

[Nick2]

I like trains.

[15895]

8 minutes ago, Nick2 said:

I like trains.

[kermit]

The June CATS quarterly report to the FTA is now available:

http://charlottenc.gov/cats/about/boards/FTA%20Quarterly/FTA-Quarterly-Agenda-180614.pdf#search=fta

now that the BLE is open I am a bit less inspired to dig through it, but here are a few things that caught my eye. My apologies that much of this likely repeats information from previous reports, there may not be much new here:

BLE:

The project appears to be $56 million under budget at the BLE open date (the unallocated contingency) (pdf 16)

The ICT system (Information and communications technologies?) has not been finished. Contractor completion date is estimated for December. I believe (but am not certain) this is the automatic train control system, its absence may be a cause of herky-jerky rides and slow speeds. (pdf 20)

I believe the estimate completion date of 36^th street is now 1/22/19? (pdf 40).

The Quality assurance and control section (beginning on pdf p 44) lists quite a few outstanding items that are likely to be slowing trains. Things like the failure of track circuit boards (scheduled for replacement in October), and crossing gate problems were noted. There was no discussion of impacts of these issues on service.

They also mention struggles with the PA system (I still hear “trains to 7^th street” most mornings at East-West)

There is very little discussion in the BLE section, so there is very little elaboration on results and impacts of the noted problems.

 

Gold line 2:

Project has already burned through $14 million of its contingency funds (about 60% of project contingency). It sounds like much of this was consumed by the initial bidding and rebidding process rather than site issues.

Revenue service date: 5/31/20 (previously estimated for 8/30/20) (I don't think this is a new change)

Gateway station bridge construction is listed as the most critical schedule risk to this project.

Gateway Station:

Amtrak service to begin “2021-2022” (pdf 107)

Corridor System Plan:

Consultant’s plan (North and West corridors plus uptown integration plan, plus preliminary cost estimates) is expected in December.

This study will also include discussion of corridor preservation and planning for a 50-100 year future.

Corridor Alternatives will be presented to the public in public workshops in July and August!

[southslider]

^Bus ridership down 17% year over year

 

[CLT704]

"CityLYNX Gold Line ridership was down 52% for the month". Ouch. 

[southslider]

^^Blue Line up around 50%, but full system flat at .5%

 

[Hushpuppy321]

Can someone elaborate on whether or not the current NCGA budget will kill or delay in a significant way the Durham-Orange Lightrail Project?  I had previously heard that this would/could be the next Lightrail Line built in North Carolina.

[kermit]

8 hours ago, Hushpuppy321 said:

Can someone elaborate on whether or not the current NCGA budget will kill or delay in a significant way the Durham-Orange Lightrail Project?  I had previously heard that this would/could be the next Lightrail Line built in North Carolina.

The budget with its current wording about how state funds would be allocated to any LRT project has most likely killed DOLRT. There is some talk of a technical correction to the budget that would make a 10% state contribution possible, but the NCGA has a track record of not following through with any favors to transit. 

Everytime I go back to the triangle (I was there yesterday) I am shocked by how much the whole area feels stuck in the 1980s in terms of sprawl and auto reliance.

[southslider]

^The DOLRT corridor covers some very pedestrian-friendly streets, especially between Downtown Durham and Ninth Street/Duke.

Edited June 10, 2018 by southslider

[Desert Power]

10 hours ago, southslider said:

^The DOLRT corridor covers some very pedestrian-friendly streets, especially between Downtown Durham and Ninth Street/Duke.

Would really be a shame to see that plan tank, Durham would really benefit greatly from some rail transit.  That downtown could be amazing.