CATS Long Term Transit Plan - Silver, Red Lines

[southslider]

A bus ridership drop would be expected, when BLE largely replaced the system's busiest routes.  The frequency on Route 11 (North Tryon) was almost cut in half and the route shortened from UNCC to IKEA.  Plus,  the system's busiest neighborhood circulator, 211 (Hidden Valley), now feeds directly to LYNX, instead of to the 11 (previously the top route in the system, but now the 9 Central Ave).

Edited January 9, 2019 by southslider

[tozmervo]

On Jan 23, planners will be presenting their Red & West line corridor recommendations to the MTC for consideration. (I think the Uptown connection as well.) 

[EllAyyDub]

^This is public - should we crowdfund someone's parking ticket up front this time?

[southslider]

^or save on parking Uptown and take transit to MTC

[kermit]

The current CEO of MARTA (Atlanta) made quite a speech this morning. He called for a $100 billion (with a B) in Atlanta area transit in an effort to get the city’s mobility up to par for places its size. Its aa very big auto-oriented hole to dig out of. This is what happens when you ignore land use for 60+ years.

There were no specifics about the source of money or where it would be spent, and a helpful state legislator reminded everyone that this figure was 50 times the annual GADOT budget. 

Having said all that, this is a useful perspective recalibration for the folks who think that $5billion for our Big Bang is expensive. 

https://www.ajc.com/news/local-govt--politics/marta-ceo-calls-for-100-billion-transit-moonshot/w2S3DB4hHU1shBLbjx5y9J/

Edited January 15, 2019 by kermit

[Matthew.Brendan]

Yep. Total shift in thinking needed. By 2100 we can be making real progress on our cities. 

[Dale]

3 hours ago, kermit said:

The current CEO of MARTA (Atlanta) made quite a speech this morning. He called for a $100 billion (with a B) in Atlanta area transit in an effort to get the city’s mobility up to par for places its size. Atlanta has a very big auto-oriented home to dig out of.. This is what happens when you ignore landuse for 60+ years.

There were no specifics about the source of money or where it would be spent, and a helpful state legislator reminded everyone that this figure was 50 times the annual GADOT budget. 

Having said all that, this is a useful perspective recalibration for the folks who think that $5billion for our Big Bang is expensive. 

https://www.ajc.com/news/local-govt--politics/marta-ceo-calls-for-100-billion-transit-moonshot/w2S3DB4hHU1shBLbjx5y9J/

“There were no specifics about the source of the money ...”.

*my not-shocked face*

[elrodvt]

^it's not his place to recommend where funds come from is it?

I see no hope of this happening in a red state until the pain is really, really serious. Like companies leaving in droves. Just like global warming. On top of that I cannot imagine it happening without federal $ - post 2021 at least. 

Nice to see someone is trying to plan for the future though.

[15895]

11 minutes ago, elrodvt said:

^it's not his place to recommend where funds come from is it?

I see no hope of this happening in a red state until the pain is really, really serious. Like companies leaving in droves. Just like global warming. On top of that I cannot imagine it happening without federal $ - post 2021 at least. 

Nice to see someone is trying to plan for the future though.

Zero hope. 

So annoying mass transit has become so politized 

[navigator319]

7 hours ago, kermit said:

The current CEO of MARTA (Atlanta) made quite a speech this morning. He called for a $100 billion (with a B) in Atlanta area transit in an effort to get the city’s mobility up to par for places its size. Its aa very big auto-oriented hole to dig out of. This is what happens when you ignore land use for 60+ years.

There were no specifics about the source of money or where it would be spent, and a helpful state legislator reminded everyone that this figure was 50 times the annual GADOT budget. 

Having said all that, this is a useful perspective recalibration for the folks who think that $5billion for our Big Bang is expensive. 

https://www.ajc.com/news/local-govt--politics/marta-ceo-calls-for-100-billion-transit-moonshot/w2S3DB4hHU1shBLbjx5y9J/

I think our 'big bang' is more in the 8-12 billion and DOES NOT include connections to South Park or Ballantyne 

[southslider]

11 hours ago, navigator319 said:

I think our 'big bang' is more in the 8-12 billion and DOES NOT include connections to South Park or Ballantyne 

Any proposal put before voters will add Ballantyne.   Lake BRT and East-West LYNX are just the system plan recommendations being finalized right now. CATS staff will soon be studying other system extensions and connections later this year.

[Hushpuppy321]

3 hours ago, southslider said:

Any proposal put before voters will add Ballantyne.   Lake BRT and East-West LYNX are just the system plan recommendations being finalized right now. CATS staff will soon be studying other system extensions and connections later this year.

Adding Ballantyne would be magnificent as that area is already a large Job Hub and requires only a short extension of an existing line.  Southpark is much more 'pie in the sky' due to the nature of Development already surrounding them.

Id hope to see plans for a Line that spurs off the Blueline towards South Tryon/Steele Creek area.

[KJHburg]

CATS should watch and study this from my 2nd favorite city San Antonio.  Vans to replace buses in a low ridership area but provide better service at a lower cost.  Read about it here

https://therivardreport.com/via-to-test-mobility-on-demand-program-in-northeast-san-antonio/?utm_campaign=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter-daily&utm_content=editorial&utm_term=bustech&utm_source=Rivard+Report&utm_campaign=99164c76cf-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2018_12_21_07_19_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_1576c62124-99164c76cf-84532449

[Dale]

42 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

CATS should watch and study this from my 2nd favorite city San Antonio.  Vans to replace buses in a low ridership area but provide better service at a lower cost.  Read about it here

https://therivardreport.com/via-to-test-mobility-on-demand-program-in-northeast-san-antonio/?utm_campaign=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter-daily&utm_content=editorial&utm_term=bustech&utm_source=Rivard+Report&utm_campaign=99164c76cf-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2018_12_21_07_19_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_1576c62124-99164c76cf-84532449

San Antonio’s mayor was famously quoted as saying that rail transit is a “dinosaur” and has proposed cutting-edge bus technology.

[EllAyyDub]

On 1/11/2019 at 9:27 AM, tozmervo said:

On Jan 23, planners will be presenting their Red & West line corridor recommendations to the MTC for consideration. (I think the Uptown connection as well.) 

Anyone going to this (or know if there is a live stream)?  I can't make it, but would like to hear what is presented.

[jjwilli]

I am going to try to make it but not likely (sick kid at home). I guess it would be under Item 7? or possibly the CEO's Report?

 

[JacksonH]

8 hours ago, Dale said:

San Antonio’s mayor was famously quoted as saying that rail transit is a “dinosaur” and has proposed cutting-edge bus technology.

This "cutting-edge bus technology" would be an improvement in getting transportation to where it's needed right now.  The downside, however, is that it will do nothing to curb (and may actually encourage) sprawl.  You can see with your own eyes the result of fixed train routes; it encourages dense development around train stops.  Between 1990 and 1992, I lived near the Dunn Loring Metro in Northern Virginia.  The neighborhood was semi-rural.  That station, at the time, was only about four years old.  Today, the area around the Dunn Loring station is a city!  It is incredible what has happened there.  And at other stations along that line, it's the same thing.  And Charlotte is no different.  Right now, in spite of modern technology and Uber, you're still seeing developers put up big condo, townhouse and apartment complexes, one after another, along the Blue Line, and also near the Sunnyside stop in Plaza-Midwood, perhaps anticipation of the future Gold Line stop there.  (Yes, I know Plaza-Midwood was already growing, but the future Gold Line stop may be accelerating some of that growth).  There definitely needs to be a means of reaching transit passengers more efficiently than the current bus system, but it needs to be done in a way that does not cause more sprawl.

[tozmervo]

*cracks knuckles* here's my takeaways from the MTC meeting tonight:

Red Line:
The staff recommendation is to keep commuter rail on the O-line as the preferred option. What this largely boils down to is a problem of geography: I77 and the O line are really the only corridors heading north that could handle a rapid transit ROW. They acknowledged that not only has Norfolk Southerns stance not changed, but they reiterated their requirements in a February '18 letter. Several passages from that letter were thrown up on the screen. 

Since the preferred option isn't possible until NS wants to play ball (note that they haven't used track north of Cornelius in going on 8 months), staff recommended a series of projects that would result in a robust express bus system. This included new limited access ramps into the express lanes, additional park & rides, and redone existing interchanges. An important note: they pitch new park and rides as being incorporated into TOD-like projects, as opposed to stand alone surface parking lots. It appeared to me that quite a bit of energy had been put into the upgrade recommendations. 

Silver Line:
First up: they are officially calling the "airport line" part of the silver line. Yes, the proposal runs the Matthews portion through uptown, continuing all the way to Belmont past CLT. The staff recommended alignment follows Wilkinson, as opposed to the one that ran up Tuckaseegee. And yes, they show the last proposed station in Belmont across the river. NCDOT is in the middle of planning the US74 bridge replacement, and CATS is working with them to ensure the replacement bridge does not cause problems for the alignment. 

Crossing Uptown:
Staff described this as the most time-critical decision, given the growth in Uptown they've already lost a Stonewall option. So their recommended route follows Independence onto Brookshire, parallels 11th street, intersecting the Blue Line, makes a turn along Graham toward Gateway Station, then breaks off along Morehead to Wilkinson. This is effectively the "North End Connection" scheme. This wasn't my preferred, but they sold the concept much better in the meeting than I had considered previously. 

The other schemes were decided against for not-surprising reasons. The tunnel has too much cost and risk. Interlining with the Blue Line or Gold Line, or other surface options, limits capacity in the future. 

Future Planning:
Staff recommended two specific items for future planning consideration: one is a continuation of the Silver Line past Belmont to Gastonia. The other has been much discussed on this board: another Blue Line extension through Pineville continuing to Ballantyne. They also want to look at options to leverage 485 express lanes for bus interconnection to the Blue Line. 

Other Business:
It sounds like they may finally roll out proper app technology in 2019, like full mobile app payment options and real-time bus tracking. The latter has had delays from tech problems with accurate bus locating in Uptown and integrating with some very strict county IT security requirements (imposed after the ransomware hack a couple of years ago). I'll believe it when I see it, but they called it out specifically. We may finally catch up to what other systems have had for years. 

Logistic note: There were no action items tonight, this was just a presentation of staff recommendations. Nothing has been officially adopted. 

Edited January 24, 2019 by tozmervo

[ertley]

I actually like the North End Connection route, and especially its routing between 11th and Brookshire, but I *HOPE* rather than taking the line down Graham (since there's no money for a tunnel beneath it) they'll instead take it one block farther north/west, and route it along Smith Street. All of the land on the far side of the street is owned by the Gateway Station project anyway, so I would think it would be a no-brainer to coordinate those lots' development with light rail running along/through it, and wouldn't ruin Graham Street.

My two cents...

[jjwilli]

Anyone know when they will publicly release the report?

[Guest]

A real tracking app would be pretty sweet. SCAD had one during my time there for their full bus service. Not always accurate but it did the job.

It was called Transloc, used at other colleges as well. Will probably take a few years to work the bugs out, but it will be worth it.

[elrodvt]

Get UNCC to do it. Their one tracking the shuttles seems great. One of the best I've seen. Small sample size for me though.

Edited January 24, 2019 by elrodvt

[tozmervo]

1 hour ago, ertley said:

I actually like the North End Connection route, and especially its routing between 11th and Brookshire, but I *HOPE* rather than taking the line down Graham (since there's no money for a tunnel beneath it) they'll instead take it one block farther north/west, and route it along Smith Street. All of the land on the far side of the street is owned by the Gateway Station project anyway, so I would think it would be a no-brainer to coordinate those lots' development with light rail running along/through it, and wouldn't ruin Graham Street.

My two cents...

It appeared that it would run along the tracks/Smith Street. To the best of my visual recollection, I have added the route (under the long term plans) to the UP Center City Development map. 

[nmundo]

Get UNCC to do it. Their one tracking the shuttles seems great. One of the best I've seen. Small sample size for me though.

The UNCC app. Is complete trash. It works. That’s as much good as I can say about it. CATS should just get the data and make real time API that companies can hook into. Let a company who’s entire focus is making apps do it. Boston MBTA is a great example of this, they just provide their data to Transit (it’s a descriptive app name but also hard to search for specifically) and let them do what their good at. I already use Transit to look at routes in CLT but it’s all based on schedule not live data. What CATS needs to focus on is getting a fare card system and keeping the system running. Every single one of the apps they have put out have been absolutely horrible.


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[orulz]

A real tracking app would be pretty sweet. SCAD had one during my time there for their full bus service. Not always accurate but it did the job.
It was called Transloc, used at other colleges as well. Will probably take a few years to work the bugs out, but it will be worth it.

The Triangle area has Transloc and it's fantastic. Literally every bus (across 8 agencies) is tracked real time. It's also a NC based company, located in Durham. http://triangle.transloc.com