CATS Long Term Transit Plan - Silver, Red Lines

[kermit]

^ yea the vibration and EMC concerns are total BS. There are dozens of medical centers with electric transit running closer to the than this situation (including one at the other end of the DOLRT). Liability and power issues must be addressed with every construction project (and there is mechanical rock drilling happening now adjected to the hospital for a different project) there is nothing to be gained from singling out LRT.

They have also had nearly a decade to make these objections and have them addressed.

Duke has become a political tool.

 

Edited February 28, 2019 by kermit

[CLT2014]

The MTC unanimously approved CATS recommended 2030 plan last night, including the Silver Line alignment on Brookshire Freeway to Gateway.  No new details on funding, other than John Lewis saying existing revenue sources won't fund it. 

https://www.wfae.org/post/mtc-oks-2030-system-plan-including-airport-light-rail#stream/0

Edited February 28, 2019 by CLT2014

[Hushpuppy321]

This sucks for the DOLRT Project but could be a good thing for the Charlotte Area.  Hopefully something is proposed formally before the end of this year on how we can fully fund our 2030 Plan that was just updated.  Hopefully the State will contribute more and allow the City/County/Regional Partners to impose a new tax or value-capture ordinance to fund it.   Not sure about Federal Contributions....

I think the Triangles time for Lightrail will come eventually but now it may not be until sometime after 2030.  

[tozmervo]

Not sure these were ever officially posted here, but the maps of the recommended (now approved) corridors are on the CATS website. 

https://charlottenc.gov/cats/transit-planning/west-corridor/Pages/default.aspx
https://charlottenc.gov/cats/transit-planning/center-city/Pages/default.aspx

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, tozmervo said:

Not sure these were ever officially posted here, but the maps of the recommended (now approved) corridors are on the CATS website. 

https://charlottenc.gov/cats/transit-planning/west-corridor/Pages/default.aspx
https://charlottenc.gov/cats/transit-planning/center-city/Pages/default.aspx

So I SHOULD go ahead and buy that place at The Garrison that is for sale, since its going to have its own train stop?

[Nick2]

Has it been outlined how the current path of the silver line will interact with the airport? It looks like it'll be passing north by a good bit. Are they thinking a shuttle or people mover or something for the last stretch to the terminal?

[CLT2014]

11 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

So I SHOULD go ahead and buy that place at The Garrison that is for sale, since its going to have its own train stop?

If you believe CATS is an organization can come up with a couple billion bucks, then YES. Meanwhile, still waiting to see how many billions it takes to get real time tracking. 

Edited February 28, 2019 by CLT2014

[Scribe]

20 minutes ago, Nick2 said:

Has it been outlined how the current path of the silver line will interact with the airport? It looks like it'll be passing north by a good bit. Are they thinking a shuttle or people mover or something for the last stretch to the terminal?

A people-mover is in the plans from Silver Line stop to Airport.

[CLT2014]

50 minutes ago, tozmervo said:

Not sure these were ever officially posted here, but the maps of the recommended (now approved) corridors are on the CATS website. 

https://charlottenc.gov/cats/transit-planning/west-corridor/Pages/default.aspx
https://charlottenc.gov/cats/transit-planning/center-city/Pages/default.aspx

 

I wonder if the "grade separated" section through FreeMoreWest will all be on a bridge. They have the alignment basically running on top of Irwin Creek or pretty close to the edge of the bank. Perhaps they plan to fill in this portion of the creek with concrete to control the flow? 

[Guest]

Just now, CLT2014 said:

I wonder if the "grade separated" section through FreeMoreWest will all be on a bridge. They have the alignment basically running on top of Irwin Creek or pretty close to the edge of the bank. Perhaps they plan to fill in this portion of the creek with concrete to control the flow? 

I honestly wish this map were virtual, so I could explore it. 

[CLT2014]

7 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

I honestly wish this map were virtual, so I could explore it. 

The more I look at it, it looks like they are going to keep it further from the creek by tearing down the businesses along Bryant Street:

[Guest]

1 minute ago, CLT2014 said:

The more I look at it, it looks like they are going to keep it further from the creek by tearing down the businesses along Bryant Street:

Not that i'd ever happen in Charlotte, but the Culver Viaduct in Brooklyn is built into, over and around businesses for the G Train.

[Sigma]

That's a lot of grade separation... $$$$

[Scribe]

8 minutes ago, Sigma said:

That's a lot of grade separation... $$$$

The other alternative (to a reliable mass transit) in Uptown is a tunnel.

[CLT>]

The original plan for rail to SouthPark from the 1970s had the train running along LIttle Sugar Creek, then turning onto what is now Fairview.

[southslider]

2 hours ago, CLT2014 said:

The more I look at it, it looks like they are going to keep it further from the creek by tearing down the businesses along Bryant Street:

Meanwhile, Carson/Belk wouldn't require any relocations between Uptown and Wilkinson. But God forbid, cars in Uptown get delayed by more frequent trains on the Blue Line.

Valuing car traffic above all else also means an expensive tunnel for the Trade St option, instead of just removing cars from a street already having tracks.

[King of the Queen City]

2 hours ago, CLT2014 said:

If you believe CATS is an organization can come up with a couple billion bucks, then YES. Meanwhile, still waiting to see how many billions it takes to get real time tracking. 

This CAT can, lol.

[SgtCampsalot]

#1: So what is the exact alignment supposed to be along Brookshire Blvd...? Shared-traffic on 11th St?

#2: If this Silver Line alignment is not a case for a feasible 277 cap at N Davidson St and Caldwell St bridges (via a P-P-P), then idk what is.

Edited March 1, 2019 by SgtCampsalot

[tozmervo]

3 minutes ago, SgtCampsalot said:

#1: So what is the exact alignment supposed to be along Brookshire Blvd...? Shared-traffic on 11th St?

#2: If this Silver Line alignment is not a case for a feasible 277 cap at N Davidson St and Caldwell St bridges (via a P-P-P), then idk what is.

Basically no one knows yet. But ncdot will be doing major rework to that stretch soon, and cats wants to be ready to piggy back on that project. 

[Cassman]

22 hours ago, southslider said:

Meanwhile, Carson/Belk wouldn't require any relocations between Uptown and Wilkinson. But God forbid, cars in Uptown get delayed by more frequent trains on the Blue Line.

Valuing car traffic above all else also means an expensive tunnel for the Trade St option, instead of just removing cars from a street already having tracks.

Couldn't agree more.  No better example of valuing cars than if they tear down the Bryant Street businesses, but leave Bryant Street untouched.

If it's grade separated, why not just build it over Bryant Street?

[tozmervo]

 

40 minutes ago, Cassman said:

Couldn't agree more.  No better example of valuing cars than if they tear down the Bryant Street businesses, but leave Bryant Street untouched.

If it's grade separated, why not just build it over Bryant Street?

Good comments, but I suspect the route line is still drawn with a "fat pen," so to speak. The precise placement through there still TBD with much more extensive planning and study. They could shoot the line up and over the exit ramp and down into the Wilkinson median, but certainly a station in this area would be a great benefit to Wesley Heights. 

[kermit]

Toz's statement about system resilience got me thinking about how the revised transit plan has mostly ignored the GoldLine and how it might be incorporated into the plan in a way that might substantially increase our mobility options.

The lack of a transfer option between the Gold Line and the Silver Line at Hawthorne (see below) seems like a significant oversight. If the Gold Line is ever sped up (e.g. dedicated lanes and signal prioritization) it would provide Eastside riders with a pretty quick two seat trip to Presby and CPCC.

More significantly (and less realistically) it seems there is an opportunity to interline the Gold and Silver lines from Hawthorne to Pecan. This would do three things. First passengers could transfer between lines at the Pecan station. Second, Gold Line vehicles could use the Silverline route to cross CSX and get into the center of PM without the Barnhardt detour. Finally, it makes it possible for some Silver Line vehicles to use the Gold Line route into uptown if there was a problem with the Silver line Route (there are all kinds of caveats to this such as platform length (single vehicle trains only)  and connecting the Gold Line route to the West Line at Gateway). But it would certainly be interesting if every other (or every third) Silver Line train was a train to the Square and it would have the side benefit of increasing street car frequency. 

Now that I have typed this I feel more strongly that the Northend detour route is a poor choice -- its just not (yet) where transit riders want to go, as such its a crappy option (IMO).

 

 

 

 

Edited March 3, 2019 by kermit

[Cassman]

Kermit - I agree with your sentiment about looking for transfer options and interline usage, where possible, but could you imagine the political blowback if the Gold Line didn't use the Hawthorne bridge over Independence after having that road closed for approximately infinity years?

[Jasons0013]

Ok, someone help me out.  Silver line leaves Uptown via running next to 277.  This would have to be on the northern side of Independence.  Is a bridge going to have to be built over Independence to get to Coliseum station?

[southslider]

13 hours ago, Cassman said:

Kermit - I agree with your sentiment about looking for transfer options and interline usage, where possible, but could you imagine the political blowback if the Gold Line didn't use the Hawthorne bridge over Independence after having that road closed for approximately infinity years?

The Hawthorne bridge now under construction doesn't accommodate Silver Line.

12 hours ago, Jasons0013 said:

Ok, someone help me out.  Silver line leaves Uptown via running next to 277.  This would have to be on the northern side of Independence.  Is a bridge going to have to be built over Independence to get to Coliseum station?

Yes, the Silver Line switches from the north to south side of Independence just west of Briar Creek Rd and the Coliseum.