CATS Long Term Transit Plan - Silver, Red Lines

[kermit]

And so it begins:

Quote

The Mayor was asked if she still had confidence in Lewis, she said she had confidence in everyone involved in the projects.

County Commissioner Pat Cotham though said, “Certainly in construction there will be problems but these seem to be pretty serious.”

Hatchet-woman Cotham starts the ball rolling on us getting a new CATS chief. (Re the BLE overpaying contractors by $1.5 million)

 https://www.wcnc.com/article/news/community/charlotte-area-transit-system-faces-issues-with-streetcar-project-blue-line-extension/275-eab1b330-56bd-4a97-b2f1-a926f496908a

 

[southslider]

^BLE overpaid and delayed. GL2 the same.  BL1 platforms indefinitely for two cars. Gateway still just some track. Red line really dead.  Silver line a tease. Ballantyne a flirt. BRT north a rebrand of Express. Local routes still centered  Uptown. Redesign without high-frequency routes. System plan without implementation strategy.

Lewis is a man of many words but little action, just like all these sentence fragments summarizing CATS under his "leadership."

[CLT>]

4 hours ago, southslider said:

^BLE overpaid and delayed. GL2 the same.  BL1 platforms indefinitely for two cars. Gateway still just some track. Red line really dead.  Silver line a tease. Ballantyne a flirt. BRT north a rebrand of Express. Local routes still centered  Uptown. Redesign without high-frequency routes. System plan without implementation strategy.

Lewis is a man of many words but little action, just like all these sentence fragments summarizing CATS under his "leadership."

While I agree they are moving slow on the plan, at least they are seemingly being deliberate about things, and when they bring a funding proposal to the table it will hopefully be something that people can agree on, and which does the right thing.

The way not to do it is how the Arts & Science Council proposed their sales tax recommendation, put it together in a week, threaten groups to support it, and cause a backlash. 

I'm in a hurry as anyone, but I wouldn't put it at the feet of Lewis.

[elrodvt]

Everyone loves a simple scapegoat. Please remember where you live. Who's going to vote for increased taxes for the common good. Yeah right....

[southslider]

Talk is cheap. Actions are telling.  Not a single success has been both started and finished during his time in charge.

[Dale]

8 hours ago, elrodvt said:

Everyone loves a simple scapegoat. Please remember where you live. Who's going to vote for increased taxes for the common good. Yeah right....

How many more tax increases would Charlotteans have to approve before you’d elevate them from rube category ?

[elrodvt]

I didn't say anyone was a rube. Tax increases are a hard sell everywhere and it gets much harder the redder the state is. On top of that you have the climate deniers in charge of our legislature who don't see reducing gas consumption as an imperitive.

So no matter how well cats performs (and I'm not defending their performance) you're already in the hole for those reasons alone. I don't know Lewis but doubt replacing him without structural changes in how transit is funded is going to accomplish much. I wish we could settle this once and for all with a 40+ year gas tax.

[Desert Power]

43 minutes ago, elrodvt said:

I didn't say anyone was a rube. Tax increases are a hard sell everywhere and it gets much harder the redder the state is. On top of that you have the climate deniers in charge of our legislature who don't see reducing gas consumption as an imperitive.

So no matter how well cats performs (and I'm not defending their performance) you're already in the hole for those reasons alone. I don't know Lewis but doubt replacing him without structural changes in how transit is funded is going to accomplish much. I wish we could settle this once and for all with a 40+ year gas tax.

We could raise the gas tax in NC around 10 cents and probably get a bit above $400mm a  year in revenue.  That probably isn't a winner in most of the state though.  Having something as poorly run as CATS doesn't help the political case.

[elrodvt]

16 hours ago, Desert Power said:

We could raise the gas tax in NC around 10 cents and probably get a bit above $400mm a  year in revenue.  That probably isn't a winner in most of the state though.  Having something as poorly run as CATS doesn't help the political case.

what would be a good long term plan then (if the legislature ever turns around)? Denver has done pretty well with their sales tax although I would've liked something more progressive based on ability to pay.

[southslider]

If CATS can't even manage short-term plans (extend Blue Line platforms, finish Gold Line, start Gateway Station), then why bother with long-term plans (Silver, Ballantyne, who knows)?

[Scribe]

That almost sounds like you're saying CATS should have no plans at all.

The problem is current management, their track record, and the culture at CATS. There is no sense of urgency to get things done.

CATS needs an attitude adjustment with good management.

[Desert Power]

20 hours ago, elrodvt said:

what would be a good long term plan then (if the legislature ever turns around)? Denver has done pretty well with their sales tax although I would've liked something more progressive based on ability to pay.

Don't get me wrong, I think you have a good idea.  It is just politically hard until we change the government in this state and maybe federal.

You could view toll lanes as some type progressive congestion tax in a way...

 

[XRZ.ME]

With roughly what size of population would Charlotte needs heavy rail transit?

[kermit]

12 hours ago, XRZ.ME said:

With roughly what size of population would Charlotte needs heavy rail transit?

'needs' is a fuzzy term. Running LRT with 3 car trains at 3 minute frequencies would give us about 1/3 of the capacity of a line on the Washington Metro at around 1/10 the cost (for example). While our downtown is impressive looking, its minuscule in comparison to The Loop, Manhattan, or the Boston Financial District -- its going to be a -long- while before we have a density that LRT is unable to handle. 

FWIW Atlanta opened MARTA in 1979, the city had a population of around 425,000 (the metro area was about 2.5 million but MARTA didn't extend much past the border of the city). MARTA is a lousy example since they pretty much ignored their pretty-nice heavy rail subway for the next 35 years.

 

Edited April 10, 2019 by kermit

[orulz]

'needs' is a fuzzy term. Running LRT with 3 car trains at 3 minute frequencies would give us about 1/3 of the capacity of a line on the Washington Metro at around 1/10 the cost (for example).
FWIW Atlanta opened MARTA in 1979, the city had a population of around 425,000 (the metro area was about 2.5 million but MARTA didn't extend much past the border of the city). MARTA is a lousy example since they pretty much ignored their pretty-nice heavy rail subway for the next 35 years.
 

Calgary shows the way for how far you can go in North America with light rail alone. They carry 300,000 riders per day on infrastructure that is quite comparable and actually inferior in some ways to Charlotte. They have four branches to Charlotte's two, and have recently converted from three to four-car trains, but their infrastructure is mostly a combination of freeway medians and surface alignments with very few grade separations.

The main thing that they have is a very dominant CBD with less highway infrastructure and less parking than is typical in the US.

[CarolinaDaydreamin]

14 hours ago, XRZ.ME said:

With roughly what size of population would Charlotte needs heavy rail transit?

Its density that's needed, not population. Heck Charleston could probably have heavy subway rail before say Raleigh could (the high costs and difficulties of the geographical location/ soil composition and historical nature of the buildings is another matter lol)

 

 

[Desert Power]

16 hours ago, XRZ.ME said:

With roughly what size of population would Charlotte needs heavy rail transit?

This seems less a population question and more of a Norfolk Southern question.

[kermit]

Oh, if you are talking about commuter rail then the time is now!

 

[XRZ.ME]

8 hours ago, orulz said:

Calgary shows the way for how far you can go in North America with light rail alone. They carry 300,000 riders per day on infrastructure that is quite comparable and actually inferior in some ways to Charlotte. They have four branches to Charlotte's two, and have recently converted from three to four-car trains, but their infrastructure is mostly a combination of freeway medians and surface alignments with very few grade separations.

The main thing that they have is a very dominant CBD with less highway infrastructure and less parking than is typical in the US.

Just wikied Calgary. It's amazing they have >300K weekday ridership with less than 40mile of LRT. Which exceeding some heavy rail lines.

Looks like they have about 220 train car, with 4 car trainset thjat's about 55 train.

 

CATS have 42 train car and 21 train. So given they have two line. It's basiclly the same amont of trains for one line.

given Lynx blue line currently have 25K weekday ridership. *2 for two line, *2 for 4 train car set. That comes to 100K daily ridership.

 

So what frequency are they running or did they have high ridership throughout the day?

[Desert Power]

Wow, Calgary has quite a skyline for its size

[CLT>]

On 4/9/2019 at 11:05 AM, Scribe said:

That almost sounds like you're saying CATS should have no plans at all.

The problem is current management, their track record, and the culture at CATS. There is no sense of urgency to get things done.

CATS needs an attitude adjustment with good management.

Where did the idea that current management or culture is a problem? They have been working pretty diligently on the full plan, and are now working on the funding mechanism. The fact that CATS needs funding to accomplished what is planned is on par with any government agency (or private entity for that matter) . While I wish they would move quicker, they have been pretty responsive in making tough changes (like altering the bus network). Other things like installing wifi on the entire network (not a needed thing in my opinion, but they didn't ask me) have been delayed by the City who wants one contract for all its agencies. If CATS came asking for a huge amount of money without a solid completely worked out plan they would be crucified. Nowadays when you have millions in outside money injected into transit issues, you better have every t crossed and i dotted.

If you want to see dysfunctional transit agencies, look at NY's MTA, and for dysfunctional government involvement, look to GA and The ATL vs MARTA.

 

[kermit]

15 hours ago, CLT> said:

Where did the idea that current management or culture is a problem?

My big issues are operational. Much slower than expected BLE, not adhering to their own (slower) schedule, foot dragging on implementing real-time tracking, the half-assed plan to charge to use the N Tryon parking decks, elevators broken for more than two weeks at a time, no apparent plan to address ridership shortfalls on the BLE, and station and track maintenance issues (there has been zero work on the missing crossing gate at N Tryon and Green Acres for at least 10 days), etc. 

Beyond that I just don't have much confidence in what John Lewis tells the public (even in things like the CATS quarterly report to the FTA). He provided absolutely no information about the decision to end the platform extension project before completion. Nothing about BLE or Gold Line delays (most importantly how CATS plans to reduce delays on future projects) .... I just keep getting the feeling that he is talking down to the public.

Put all that together and I don't have a ton of confidence that current CATS management can pull off a Big Bang plan and its associated tax increase referendum. Lewis is giving the RWNJ opponents to an expanded transit tax tons of ammo for the campaign.

FWIW: MARTA improved its operations substantially under former CATS head Keith Parker. Not sure if MARTA has changed since he left.

Edited April 12, 2019 by kermit

[CLT>]

22 minutes ago, kermit said:

My big issues are operational. Much slower than expected BLE, not adhering to their own schedule, foot dragging on implementing real-time tracking, the plan to charge to use the N Tryon parking decks, no apparent plan to address ridership shortfalls on the BLE, and station and track maintenance issues (there has been zero work on the missing crossing gate at N Tryon and Green Acres for at least 10 days), etc. 

 Beyond that I just don't have much confidence in what John Lewis tells the public (even in things like the CATS quarterly report to the FTA). He provided absolutely no information about the decision to end the platform extension project before completion. Nothing about BLE or Gold Line delays.... I just keep getting the feeling that he is talking down to the public.

 Put all that together and I don't have a ton of confidence in CATS management to pull off a Big Bang plan and its associated tax increase referendum. Lewis is giving the RWNJ opponents to an expanded transit tax tons of ammo for the campaign.

 FWIW: MARTA improved its operations substantially under former CATS head Keith Parker. Not sure what has happened since he left.

Agree on the operational side, even trash is now a problem on the Blue Line among many other things. They need to put their social media person on trash duty once a week instead of posting 100x a day.

My favorite CATS operational story was that when they unveiled the new CATS Pass App the bus drivers were very confused and would argue that it was only valid on the Lynx, when I spoke to CATS about it they said "We very clearly posted a notice on the wall in the break room, if they didn't see it that's on them..." Not how you roll out a new ticketing platform. (The app still shows the ticket as a Lynx ticket, not a system ticket.)

The Gold Line delays have been pretty well publicized, including the reasons for the delay. Goes back to having to use State low-bidder contracts which have caused quite a few messes over the years.

Maybe I'm an optimist,  but I'm hoping for a very well presented case for value capture. If that doesn't come in 2019, then I lose my confidence in him as a leader.

My comment about MARTA was not a slight on the agency, just the dysfunction of when the GA Legislature thought they knew how to do transit better than MARTA and the associated dysfunction it created. Always had a great experience when using MARTA Rail and Bus. Wish we could get Keith Parker back. Or even coax Ron Tober out of retirement...

[Scribe]

4 hours ago, CLT> said:

Where did the idea that current management or culture is a problem?

I know you are trying to come at this as "supporting CATS" and think that somehow overlooking all the crap CATS does wrong is going to magically make those problems disappear, but CATS has been run badly for the entire time Lewis has been at the helm.

One tiny metric that you can check yourself. follow CATS twitter or FB page and see how many times they post delays and service outages. Another metric is how they execute on construction projects historically. Yet another, is the quarterly reports that do not match up the projections.

Then the complete batcrap crazy policy of not actually validating every ticket on the Lynx and "random fair checks" BS (no you do not need turnstiles -- see Jerusalem implementation) and how much revenue is lost because of it.

How many years Wells and BoA employees out of Matthews told me they would take express buses and the machines on the buses did not work and one of them documented that he paid for only ~20% of the rides he took on the express buses! When the machine is down, the ride is free!

I could go on... CATS is very much necessary for Charlotte metro, but it needs to be whipped into shape!

 

Quote

If you want to see dysfunctional transit agencies, look at NY's MTA

Dysfunctional transit systems do not become dysfunctional overnight! It is the slow creep of incompetence combined with lack of leadership that ultimately gives birth to the dysfunctional system!

Edited April 12, 2019 by Scribe

[Desert Power]

46 minutes ago, Scribe said:

 

 CATS is very much necessary for Charlotte metro, but it needs to be whipped into shape!

 

As a daily rider....preach!