CATS Long Term Transit Plan - Silver, Red Lines

[pgsinger]

Could we run a line along 485 from the Silver Line to P-Ville and connect with the Blue Line (post-extension to P-Ville)?  Pick up 2-3 stops in River District, which is a large area anyways, 1 stop at the outlets, then continue it to Ballantyne.  Running North it could use the same track as the Silver Line and end at the airport.  This would give South Charlotte convenient airport access.  It could probably get close enough that the USNWC could run a shuttle from the stop at the silver line junction.  I am a huge proponent of running the line to the airport.  However, since tourism is not a huge industry here, I assume most passengers going to and from the airport are leaving from or going to their residences.  Similarly, I think most tourist are visiting friends and relatives here, and going to their residences.  I actually think an airport line to residential heavy air of town might do better than a airport line to the CBD.

[Scribe]

I think if we are getting into spur lines and such, it would be better to start thinking of an "O" line that is well within the I-485 and has the following "target service areas"

I wish I had a starting map with Blue, Silver and possibly the Red Lines mapped out, the "O" line makes more sense when you see the interaction of the lines at these transfer stations.

• Airport (a must)
• Going South towards the Tyvola Business District (TBD)
• Follow Tyvola all the way ( -> Fairview -> Rama - Idlewild to W T Harris Blvd) on the way cover
  • SouthPark (and its business district)
  • Providence Rd
  • US -74 (here to save a few miles and bring the loop closer to CBD you can follow Sharon Amity to Harris Blvd instead of Idlewild Rd)
• Albemarle @ Harris
• Sharon Amity @ Harris
• .....
• Old Concord approaching University area
• UNC Charlotte - Main Campus
• CIC / IBM Dr business district
• NorthLake Mall
• turn south - still a lot of undeveloped land in the part of town... so lots of route choices.
• towards Sunset Rd
• @ Hwy 16
• Close back out at the Airport...

Red are "by-pass"/cutoff sections. Green is some of the target business districts.

 

Note: the little black and white dots on the line are NOT stations, that is just the measuring points on Google Maps measuring tool.

The route as measured ended up being 45 miles. You can bring it down to 35 miles with some creative shaving off the route North-West and East of CBD.

Edited May 6, 2019 by Scribe

[Scribe]

If you boil it down, the mapped "O" line above is ~70% covered by 2 contiguous roadways "Tyvola/Fairview/Rama/Idlewild" and Harris Blvd).

Because NW Charlotte is still so underdeveloped, there are plenty of corridor options.

[tozmervo]

John Lewis on Charlotte Talks this morning. https://www.wfae.org/post/charlotte-talks-new-transit-blueprint-place-now-comes-figuring-out-how-pay-it

[southslider]

16 hours ago, tozmervo said:

John Lewis on Charlotte Talks this morning. https://www.wfae.org/post/charlotte-talks-new-transit-blueprint-place-now-comes-figuring-out-how-pay-it

He tried spinning value-capture instead of new taxes to fund system expansion. But really, if private partners won't even fund an infill station in the region's hottest real estate market, then there's little hope for creative financing elsewhere in the region.

[tozmervo]

17 minutes ago, southslider said:

He tried spinning value-capture instead of new taxes to fund system expansion. But really, if private partners won't even fund an infill station in the region's hottest real estate market, then there's little hope for creative financing elsewhere in the region.

I understood that differently. I thought he was suggesting that the city/county dedicate a share of increased property tax value to CATS. So if a parcel goes from $100 to $150 tax value, then some chunk of the $50 improvement would go to CATS's capital fund. 

[Guest]

34 minutes ago, southslider said:

He tried spinning value-capture instead of new taxes to fund system expansion. But really, if private partners won't even fund an infill station in the region's hottest real estate market, then there's little hope for creative financing elsewhere in the region.

but private partners are currently helping fund Rampart Crossing, and another Train Station, which is being fast tracked. They are also helping fund crossing 277 with the Rail Trail, and are contributing greatly to the Rail Trail in the case of Edens and Hawkins Tower. 

[tozmervo]

46 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

but private partners are currently helping fund Rampart Crossing, 

what crossing is that?

[southslider]

^^Still, South End's boom can't even fund an infill station.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, tozmervo said:

what crossing is that?

Between Publix and Spectrum SouthEnd

[southslider]

^Not a station

[kermit]

1 hour ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

Between Publix and Spectrum SouthEnd

The last MTC meeting summary vaguely discussed the station’s demise (and pinned the blame on a lack of private partner participation)

 

Edited May 7, 2019 by kermit

[Guest]

1 hour ago, southslider said:

^Not a station

yes but like I said, a station is being fast tracked. Like 2  years from now I'd expect it to open.

[CLT>]

 

 

1

On 5/6/2019 at 12:55 PM, NDL said:

A Silver Line into the planned River District, combined with the area's natural water feature, could conspire to come out with a development that would *really* put Charlotte on the map.
 

Everyone loves the River Walk in San Antonio, and the Reedy River/Falls Park in downtown Greenville.  Why can't we have something like that, but better, in Charlotte?

 

The current River District has almost zero connection to the water, other than in its name. It's basically a car-centric place with big creek and river setbacks, more reminiscent of a 1920's Ebenezer Howard garden city, just designed a little worse.

https://www.theriverdistrict.com/master-plan#vision

[elrodvt]

It's regressive but a small sales tax increase along with a hospitality tax bump would be more likely to be approved. Maybe a small increase in airport / rental fees as well. Worked in Denver to build a pretty kick ass system. AFAIK those were the main funding sources.  I know, a tax of $10/month on all surface or above ground parking. We could fund a tunnel too with that one. ;-)

[Desert Power]

3 hours ago, CLT> said:

 The current River District has almost zero connection to the water, other than in its name. It's basically a car-centric place with big creek and river setbacks, more reminiscent of a 1920's Ebenezer Howard garden city, just designed a little worse.

https://www.theriverdistrict.com/master-plan#vision

I really hate this design

[elrodvt]

^i hear this over and over here. No one does anything though. I've said this many times here without any positive comments but I think this group could have influence if some simple criteria were published and members attend meetings. I'm not the guy but plenty of folks here are. Creating those criteria would be fun at least if we have a decent moderator. Yeah I know it's easy to volunteer others time. I'd be happy to attend meetings and protest poor decisions. 

Oh, I don't think the new planning work is going to be some holy Grail either.

Desert not aimed at you.

Edited May 8, 2019 by elrodvt

[Guest]

^i hear this over and over here. No one does anything though. I've said this many times here without any positive comments but I think this group could have influence if some simple criteria were published and members attend meetings. I'm not the guy but plenty of folks here are. Creating those criteria would be fun at least if we have a decent moderator. Yeah I know it's easy to volunteer others time. I'd be happy to attend meetings and protest poor decisions. 
Oh, I don't think the new planning work is going to be some holy Grail either.
Desert not aimed at you.

You can also contribute by writing editorials for local media, volunteering for people like Sustain Charlotte, the Urban Institute, Arts & Science Counsil, and pushing initiatives and ideas on social media. You can even do this from outside of Charlotte.


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[southslider]

13 hours ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

yes but like I said, a station is being fast tracked. Like 2  years from now I'd expect it to open.

CATS expects so many great things getting done two years from now.  Gold Line. Gateway. Even more rail studies.

Just as an infill station is an inflated promise in South End, any more light rail is unfunded chatter.

[KJHburg]

did you see this resolution just passed by Concord city council and the Cabarrus County of Commissioners about LYNX extension into Cabarrus County?

https://www.concordnc.gov/Portals/0/Documents/Government/News/MAY - Concord Regional Transit Resolution.pdf?ver=2019-05-10-154512-273

[NcSc74]

So the Charlotte region is only 1.8 million per the article....

[cltbwimob]

^^^I don’t know if they have bothered to check census data lately, but yeah Charlotte is pushing 2.6 million as of 2018.  And by 2030 when they say we’ll be at 2.5 million, we’ll  probably be north of 3 million and may not be too far away from 3.25 million.

Edited May 10, 2019 by cltbwimob

[CLT>]

On 5/7/2019 at 10:12 PM, elrodvt said:

^i hear this over and over here. No one does anything though. I've said this many times here without any positive comments but I think this group could have influence if some simple criteria were published and members attend meetings. I'm not the guy but plenty of folks here are. Creating those criteria would be fun at least if we have a decent moderator. Yeah I know it's easy to volunteer others time. I'd be happy to attend meetings and protest poor decisions. 

Oh, I don't think the new planning work is going to be some holy Grail either.

Desert not aimed at you.

Lots of people do as much as they can behind the scenes, and on stage. But till we get more than one or two developers in town that put any effort or money into design, protesting will only make us all blue in the face. The best was is to educate the public on good design, and eventually companies will shun buildings and developments that are badly designed until they have to drop their lease rates to fill them, then the developers will learn. 

[elrodvt]

^I don't see why the approach is so passive though? Start with a critique of the new planning rules if they ever come out. Compare them to cities who overachieve. Ask for time to present these reactions at council meetings. There must be a public comment period right?  I've seen a lot of different cities and know things could be a lot better but I'm not qualified to do this. Many of you are.

Then we organize protests against new developments which "suck". Maybe this is just not possible down here where it's all about who you know and quite possibly graft. Where I came from it was very effective though. I agree it might be impossible to stop the really well connected, deep pocket, developers but i still think a difference can be made and this is the fastest way to bring attention to the poor decisions being made here.  Over time people will notice. That is how to educate on good design while trying to make a difference NOW. What do you think?

Or we get local news to lead with how this is the new thing that will kill us all. ;-) Maybe it could cause Ebola?

 

EDIT: I just want to add. My observation over the last 5 years living here is that there is very little civic involvement.  So, this might lead to more attention than you expect.

 

EDIT2: And I greatly appreciate any contributions people are currently making. I don't mean to diminish them in any way!

Edited May 11, 2019 by elrodvt

[XRZ.ME]

I think we need two lynx station in ballantyne corporate park.
The buildings are two far away from each other.


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