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CATS Long Term Transit Plan - Silver, Red Lines


monsoon

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A few things from the MTC May meeting summary that caught my eye: 

  • Very interesting to hear that Brightline / Virgin are apparently actively exploring Atlanta to Charlotte already [this discussion was part of the presentation on Silver Line alignment and corridor preservation]
Quote

CATS CEO LEWIS: The Brightline project which is now the Virgin America project, you may have heard it in several different descriptions, they are continuing to have conversations with both the airport and NCDOT and South Carolina DOT about the potential for the I-85 corridor. I think where it would come into play with the Silver Line is, number one, if that occurs, how would it access the airport to get that as their terminus or how would it access potentially Gateway Station, if that would be the terminus. But, in this regard, we're talking about NCDOT project, but we are keeping our eye on that continued discussion.

  • Sounds like Silver Line preliminary engineering and design is being stretched out to five years (instead of three) due to budget limitations (completion of design scheduled for FY 2024 -- federal funding applications get started after that (and take about two years IIRC) so construction start in 2027 best case)
  • There was lots of angst voiced about the need to increase bus frequency. Lewis' response was 'we just don't have the money for that.'
  • Blue Line Ballantyne Extension preliminary report finalized later this month
  • Expect smartcard and barcode (online app) validators on Blue Line vehicles before the end of the year
  • Blue Line ridership is up 7.3% April to April (this is our first decent year to year comparison since BLE opening). A solid and promising increase, but ridership is still around 6,000 below initial projections.
  • Its all academic now but Gold Line ridership was initially around 2,000 per day not long after opening, but by April it had dropped to less than 700 riders per day. Crappy reliability and crapty frequency can really gut ridership!

https://charlottenc.gov/cats/about/boards/MTC Agenda Package/MTC-Agenda-Package-190522.pdf

Edited by kermit
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3 hours ago, XRZ.ME said:

Given current time schedule, silver line will be finished about 2035~2040
CBD office buildings would already covering current planned route by that time


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That is really disappointing, but at least property gains will continue to increase along the piddly little Blue Line we already have

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15 hours ago, kermit said:

Interesting article from the Salt Lake City paper. It appears that congestion has actually decreased in both SLC and Portland despite population growth rates that are similar to ours. Extensive transit and bike infrastructure are two of the things both cities have in common. 

It is also noteworthy that both cities have removed traffic lanes to expand LRT.

It aint rocket science.

https://www.sltrib.com/news/politics/2019/06/05/global-study-says-salt/

Public transit is great in SLC; TRAX trains run frequently, and the entire CBD is a fare-free zone on all fixed routes (light rail and buses).

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19 hours ago, kermit said:

Interesting article from the Salt Lake City paper. It appears that congestion has actually decreased in both SLC and Portland despite population growth rates that are similar to ours. Extensive transit and bike infrastructure are two of the things both cities have in common.

Just gonna leave Portland and SLC transit maps here for reference.  

I know  one of Charlotte's major issues with a more aggressive rail system stems from funding due to either a general lack of interest or outright opposition by the general public in the city and surrounding area to proper tax increases/allotments.  Cities like Portland, SLC, and Denver show it is not only feasible from a funding perspective, but also beneficial for area residents and businesses.  I wonder if CATS could fund a transit media blitz in partnership with say the CCCP to help educate the general public on the benefits of mass transit to help push more robust funding measures and in turn a more aggressive build out plan in a shorter time frame.  Even if they were able to spare <$5 million for such a campaign, it could pay dividends in the billions of dollars over the next decade in tax revenue.  It just seems unfathomable to me that a city of Charlotte's size and current growth has essentially only two light rail lines with the silver line not expected to open service for at least 10 years after the blue line extension's completion, and no solid timeline for the red line or phase 3 of the gold line.

Just for a quick comparison to show it can be done - Denver opened it's first 5.3 mile light rail line in 1994.  In that 25 year span since, they now have 3 commuter rail lines and 9 light rail lines  totaling 87.5 miles of rail service, with an additional line under construction and three extensions planned or under construction.  An expectation that Charlotte could do half of that in the same time frame to me is not unreasonable.

portlandtransit.png

slctransit.jpg

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3 minutes ago, queensguy06 said:

  It just seems unfathomable to me that a city of Charlotte's size and current growth has essentially only two light rail lines with the silver line not expected to open service for at least 10 years after the blue line extension's completion, and no solid timeline for the red line or phase 3 of the gold line.

More like 20 years, not 10

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4 minutes ago, Desert Power said:

More like 20 years, not 10

My estimate is a best case scenario at this point based off of the most recent MTC meeting notes.  The BLE was finished last year (2018), so from that time frame preliminary engineering and design to be completed by 2024, an additional two years for federal funding grant approval and final design, and two-three years of construction.  This puts completion roughly in 2028-2029.

But again, that is best case scenario.  The silver line most certainly could be delayed beyond that.

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3 hours ago, kermit said:

I don’t understand your point. All these cities have horrendous traffic. 

Simple point: while we’re bellyaching we don’t have more rail, peer cities have no rail. 

Side note: some of the cities I referenced are less congested than we are.

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Since there is serious discussion by the city to extend the blue line I to Ballantyne, I have a different proposal. Build a new light rail that starts in Uptown, runs through South Park, and terminates in Ballantyne. I understand it will be stupidly expensive and "unfeasible', but Southpark needs light rail since that area is continuing to densify and is a big employment hub.

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1 hour ago, norm21499 said:

Since there is serious discussion by the city to extend the blue line I to Ballantyne, I have a different proposal. Build a new light rail that starts in Uptown, runs through South Park, and terminates in Ballantyne. I understand it will be stupidly expensive and "unfeasible', but Southpark needs light rail since that area is continuing to densify and is a big employment hub.

Seems like it would be much simpler to just run a spur from Scalybark to Park Rd. shopping and then South Park.

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10 minutes ago, Windsurfer said:

Seems like it would be much simpler to just run a spur from Scalybark to Park Rd. shopping and then South Park.

I don't have all the fancy map drafting skills you all have but why not, Balantyne, SouthPark, Park Road Shopping Center/Montford/Greenway, Woodlawn Blue line station and then onward to CLT? Yes, I know there may be some land acquisition issues but, Johnston/Park/Park South could provide the routing, and then Woodlawn/BGP.

image.thumb.png.66b2f38b1cbe1ca960a1c2332d4c2508.png

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1 hour ago, davidclt said:

I don't have all the fancy map drafting skills you all have but why not, Balantyne, SouthPark, Park Road Shopping Center/Montford/Greenway, Woodlawn Blue line station and then onward to CLT? Yes, I know there may be some land acquisition issues but, Johnston/Park/Park South could provide the routing, and then Woodlawn/BGP.

image.thumb.png.66b2f38b1cbe1ca960a1c2332d4c2508.png

I'm sure Quail Hollow wants a light rail line through its golf course. I'm really not sure how some of you hold down jobs. 

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A branch from the Blue Line is a good way to serve SP. IMO this is way more important than an extension to Ballantyne. People on here seem to prefer a route that covers Park Rd SC but that would probably require a crazy expensive tunnel. Nice thought but not realistic, IMO. The hundreds of millions that it would cost to build such a tunnel would be much better spent on other things like commuter/regional rail.

 

I think a surface route along Tyvola is much more realistic - it would be possible with a reasonable number of residential property impacts: 15-20. Flyovers for South Blvd and Park Rd.

 

 

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