CATS Long Term Transit Plan - Silver, Red Lines

[SgtCampsalot]

9 hours ago, kermit said:

City votes tomorrow on funding its share of Silver Line rail trail planning.

Lets get the Blue Line rail trail built first....

https://www.wfae.org/post/new-cats-light-rail-project-could-include-trail

Naaawwww, this is great. I hear the call for prioritization but considering how long the rail line will take to be built, a trail along the ROW is exactly the kind of thing we should be doing in the meantime. For many carless folks that would BE their transit!

[XRZ.ME]

Rail trail is also a way to boost ridership.

Walking on rail trail to a Lynx station is much easier than walking along regular city street.

[southslider]

There isn't a planned Rail Trail along Blue Line north of 12th or south of Old Pineville.  The only remaining gaps along Blue Line are between Remount and Tremont on the east side, plus the high profile gap across 277 between Morehead and MLK.

[SgtCampsalot]

5 hours ago, southslider said:

There isn't a planned Rail Trail along Blue Line north of 12th or south of Old Pineville.  The only remaining gaps along Blue Line are between Remount and Tremont on the east side, plus the high profile gap across 277 between Morehead and MLK.

Yes true, but also once the Parkwood road diet is done, the connector from 12th will connect to the rail trail on Parkwood and Brevard... Ending at the creek.

I wish Highland Mill would allow their back alley, and The Yards would allow their main Street, to be a mixed-traffic bike/ped path, then it would connect directly to 36th St station. Right now there is an entirely pointless locked gate between Novel NoDa and The Yards' parking lot.

Edited August 27, 2019 by SgtCampsalot

[kermit]

Phoenix votes today on ending all future (and currently underway) light rail expansion.  If the resolution passes it would overturn a vote to fund Light rail expansion passed overwhelmingly in 2015 — existing transit taxes would remain, but the money would be used for roads instead of rail.

The people behind the signature drive to hold the repeal election are following exactly the same playbook that was used here back in 2007 to end our transit tax (the vote was two weeks before the Blue Line opened). It appears that in Phoenix that nearly all of the  funding for the transit tax repeal campaign has come from just 10 people (and the Koach brothers funneled their contributions through at least one of those individual contributors). Despite this comically small collection of campaign donors the media makes it sound like there is a massive groundswell of activism against LRT in Phoenix.

https://www.azmirror.com/2019/08/26/effort-to-kill-light-rail-bankrolled-by-less-than-a-dozen-people-records-show/

How is this relevant to us? First, it is a virtual certainty that their will be heavy pushback against the next transit tax vote (and possibly another effort to repeal it once its underway). Second, we need to keep in mind that this pushback is likely to be quite thin, but with sophisticated marketing knowledge so that they look much more influential. Its much better to understand who these guys are before we begin the fight than let them take us by surprise. Finally, CATS needs to do it job well, declining ridership and construction mismanagement is going irritate us but also fuel the opposition.

Edited August 28, 2019 by kermit

[Matthew.Brendan]

That is really frustrating. Here's hoping for a good outcome today!

[videtur quam contuor]

Is the Lizard King involved in Phoenix? (In 2007 the person who fronted the repeal effort here had an online handle of Lizard King and was a true lower order reptile)

Edited August 27, 2019 by tarhoosier

[kermit]

The voters of Phoenix were unimpressed with the astroturfed, auto-centric cranks on the right who suggested that light rail was making the Phoenix unlivable. Preliminary election results show that only 38% of those voting wanted to defund light rail expansion (roughly the same result as the 2007 repeal election in Charlotte). Phoenix voters have now voted in support of light rail four times. This result shows (IMO) that  these sorts of efforts (a fourth vote on funding municipal improvements) is not democracy, its is just obstructionism that wastes everyone’s time and money.

imagine a world where road projects received this much scrutiny.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix/2019/08/27/prop-105-phoenix-election-results-future-light-rail-where-to-vote/2088650001/

Edited August 28, 2019 by kermit

[CLT>]

On 8/27/2019 at 9:58 AM, kermit said:

How is this relevant to us? First, it is a virtual certainty that their will be heavy pushback against the next transit tax vote (and possibly another effort to repeal it once its underway). Second, we need to keep in mind that this pushback is likely to be quite thin, but with sophisticated marketing knowledge so that they look much more influential. Its much better to understand who these guys are before we begin the fight than let them take us by surprise. Finally, CATS needs to do it job well, declining ridership and construction mismanagement is going irritate us but also fuel the opposition.

I was under the impression that CATS was hitching their wagon to Value Capture to raise the majority of future revenue, and that a sales tax is completely off the table (unless the state legislature changes) and they are exploring other avenues.  Any insight into their plans?

[kermit]

6 hours ago, CLT> said:

I was under the impression that CATS was hitching their wagon to Value Capture to raise the majority of future revenue, and that a sales tax is completely off the table (unless the state legislature changes) and they are exploring other avenues.  Any insight into their plans?

I really haven't heard anything substantive about big bang financing. I have heard a bunch of casual chatter about value capture (including John Lewis on Charlotte Talks). My impression is that the city is comfortable with the estimated value that will be created by LRT expansion (and thus bond amounts) but the discussion has been focused on what portion of that value CATS should receive. This is the perfect time to issue those bonds, near zero interest rates are a true gift.

I have not heard anything which made me think value capture would be the only revenue source, so I have always assumed the local funding would be from a variety of sources. 

Don't read much into this reply, I don’t know much about the financing part  of the process.

Edited August 29, 2019 by kermit

[southslider]

The sale of CTC won't even begin to cover building Silver Line near (or under) its captured block.

[CLT>]

 

[kermit]

21 minutes ago, CLT> said:

 

WTF???

[JHart]

23 minutes ago, kermit said:

WTF???

If you zoom in over half of the people surveyed were asked via landline... Also this was a survey of 450 people, it had nothing to do with actual recorded complaints submitted about the system

[videtur quam contuor]

Landline means copper, fiber and cable phone, any linear service? 

[KJHburg]

Ballantyne and Pineville extension of LYNX discussed and preferred routes shown

https://ui.uncc.edu/story/cats-plans-light-rail-expansion-pineville-ballantyne

for me the owners of Carolina Place Mall and the owners of Ballantyne Northwood should donate all the land within their boundaries for this expansion as they will benefit greatly from it.  

Edited August 29, 2019 by KJHburg

[pgsinger]

Carolina Place is owed by Brookfield, via GGP.  I actually spoke to one of the BF guys about this and he was very knowledgeable about the city's plans.  I honestly think they would donate the land.

[Madison Parkitect]

The planned route would seem to affect any future light rail into South Carolina, because it pretty definitively extends the line east instead of south. I wonder if rail into SC could now mean commuter rail along the existing heavy rail line to the 485 Station, where they could put a newly expanded multi-modal station where you'd transfer to light rail. Seems complicated.

Also, from the article "In the early 2000s, during planning for the initial Blue Line, Pineville’s town council said “no thanks” to transit because they were concerned about too much growth. Last year, the town council reversed the earlier decision, formally asking CATS to include it in expansion plans." That's VERY funny.

[KJHburg]

as for LYNX into SC that is unlikely in my book anytime soon.  They SC are just now starting to rebuild and expand some of their highways.  So much funding needs in the Charleston area, upstate.  Unless York county comes up with a financing mechanism I would not count on this anytime soon.     SC just does not have the money to do.   

[King of the Queen City]

If the blue line is going to be extended, Ballantyne probably does make the most sense.  It would be nice to have commuter rail to Gateway Station from Rock Hill and Fort Mill with an Amtrak option to Columbia and Charleston.

[kermit]

17 hours ago, KJHburg said:

as for LYNX into SC that is unlikely in my book anytime soon.  They SC are just now starting to rebuild and expand some of their highways.  So much funding needs in the Charleston area, upstate.  Unless York county comes up with a financing mechanism I would not count on this anytime soon.     SC just does not have the money to do.   [SC just doesn't feel like paying for]

Fixed it for you.

[videtur quam contuor]

SC gas tax is still, what, 8-10¢ less than NC?

[southslider]

^And the sales tax in York County for roads is a full cent, or double Mecklenburg's for transit.

[kermit]

I Have not heard much about it yet but this quick video makes the new Indianapolis BRT look like a viable transit route (for BRT). Dedicated lanes, off board payment, all door boarding and widely separated stops all make for fast bus rides. Depending on what happens at intersections (and enforcement of dedicated lanes) it could be OK second choice after rail. As a bonus, construction only took 15 months. Don't be too impressed with the crowdshots, it only opened yesterday and its free for the first month. 

The downside of BRT is that local governments are tempted to cut frequency and important elements such as off board payment and all door boarding when budget crunches hit (Cleveland turned its very nice BRT into just another bus route this way), its flexibility is a bug, not a feature (developers don't respond to BRT the same way they do to LRT) and it has capacity limitations due to limited vehicle size and restrictions at intersections (see the Los Angeles Orange Line).

EDIT: It appears that only 1/3 of the route is dedicated lane and opposite direction buses can only pass at stations (which further limits capacity)

It looks like a good alternative for areas without a natural rail ROW. It is way cheaper to build, but it may have a lower ROI due to its inability to stimulate high-density development.

I could see this work on Southpark Providence / Park rd service.

 

Edited September 3, 2019 by kermit

[Seaboard Fellow]

5 minutes ago, kermit said:

I Have not heard much about it yet but this quick video makes the new Indianapolis BRT look like a decent setup (for BRT). Dedicated lanes, off board payment, widely separated stops. Depending on what happens at intersections (and enforcement of dedicated lanes) it could be a decent setup. As a bonus, construction only took 15 months. Don't be too impressed with the crowdshots, it only opened yesterday and its free for the first month. 

The downside of BRT is that local governments are tempted to cut frequency and important elements such as off board payment (both happened in Cleveland), its flexibility is a bug, not a feature (developers don't respond to BRT the same way they do to LRT) and it has capacity limitations due to limited vehicle size and restrictions at intersections (see the Los Angeles Orange Line)

I could see this work on Southpark Providence / Park rd service.

 

Red pavement markings for BRT may become a new standard when the new MUTCD is released. Hopefully this improves driver behavior in and around BRT lanes.