CATS Long Term Transit Plan - Silver, Red Lines

[kermit]

The COG has issued an RFQ in order to find a consultant to draft a Regional Transit plan.  RFQs are due Sept 20 and interviews of consultants will be held on October 1st. The plan is for the following areas:

“The project area includes Anson, Cabarrus, Cleveland, Gaston, Iredell, Lincoln, Mecklenburg, Rowan, Stanly, and Union counties in North Carolina and the urbanized areas of Lancaster and York counties in South Carolina (within the Rock Hill-Fort Mill Area Transportation Study geography).”

https://centralina.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Regional-Transit-Plan-RFQ-9.3.10-FINAL.pdf

 

 

[davidclt]

4 hours ago, kermit said:

The COG has issued an RFQ in order to find a consultant to draft a Regional Transit plan.  RFQs are due Sept 20 and interviews of consultants will be held on October 1st.

Maybe a contingent of UPers should draft a submission?

[tozmervo]

CATS and CDOT will be conducting a bus-bike lane project in October. The plan is to take the right lane of fourth street from McDowell to the CTC and make it a bus/bike only lane, or a right turn only lane. They will analyze how it goes and make adjustments if needed. Other areas were considered for the pilot, but it was felt 4th would be a good first step to trying it out for the city. 

[Desert Power]

51 minutes ago, tozmervo said:

CATS and CDOT will be conducting a bus-bike lane project in October. The plan is to take the right lane of fourth street from McDowell to the CTC and make it a bus/bike only lane, or a right turn only lane. They will analyze how it goes and make adjustments if needed. Other areas were considered for the pilot, but it was felt 4th would be a good first step to trying it out for the city. 

So we are going with a bike lane on 6th and 4th, instead of just closing Trade to private vehicles?  

[tozmervo]

To the best of my knowledge, closing Trade has only ever been suggested on this board. There are bike lanes on multiple streets, including most of this stretch of 4th.

[southslider]

4th will be the first BUS lane. 

[kermit]

10 hours ago, tozmervo said:

To the best of my knowledge, closing Trade has only ever been suggested on this board.

I first heard the idea from a city employee when East Trade was closed for Phase 1 Streetcar construction. He offered the idea in a context of “it makes sense, but the city will never do it — lets get another beer and talk about other ridiculous Charlotte ideas.” 

I heard the idea mentioned by a different  city employee years later in an unrelated conversation, but again the suggestion wasn't made seriously. The idea is out there, but its nowhere near the “lets think about how to make this happen” stage.

Edited September 13, 2019 by kermit

[JHart]

https://redd.it/d33k3m 

Let's close it! Something drastic to set Charlotte apart from other US cities

[Desert Power]

1 hour ago, kermit said:

11 hours ago, tozmervo said:

To the best of my knowledge, closing Trade has only ever been suggested on this board.

I first heard the idea from a city employee when East Trade was closed for Phase 1 Streetcar construction. He offered the idea in a context of “it makes sense, but the city will never do it — lets get another beer and talk about other ridiculous Charlotte ideas.” 

I heard the idea mentioned by a different  city employee years later in an unrelated conversation, but again the suggestion wasn't made seriously. The idea is out there, but its nowhere near the “lets think about how to make this happen” stage.

Edited 33 minutes ago by kermit

I do like to post about it a lot...good to know others are thinking about it too

[tozmervo]

Also - at either this month's or next month's MTC meeting, there's an action item to award a consultant the Silver Line design contract. That would let a multi-year contract to allow a consultant to take the entire length of the line through initial design phases that would include refining the alignment and route. 

[Nick2]

Or reduce it down to one travel Lane in either direction with a large pedestrian walkway, bike paths, and dedicated lanes for the street car.

[Matthew.Brendan]

The one thing I absolutely love to see on my morning commute in on my Vespa is all the other people sharing Tryon street with bicycles, scooters, and all sorts of electric personal transportation vehicles. I routinely see electric skateboards, and even those 1-wheel balance board things. Mostly all sharing the road with the cars. At least for those few blocks uptown it brings a tear of joy to see everyone sharing the road.

[SgtCampsalot]

4 hours ago, Matthew.Brendan said:

The one thing I absolutely love to see on my morning commute in on my Vespa is all the other people sharing Tryon street with bicycles, scooters, and all sorts of electric personal transportation vehicles. I routinely see electric skateboards, and even those 1-wheel balance board things. Mostly all sharing the road with the cars. At least for those few blocks uptown it brings a tear of joy to see everyone sharing the road.

Tryon street is my favorite street to be in anything but a car

[kermit]

The SC guv has a full chub for rail to Rock Hill

 

All he needs to do to have his way is write a check....

 

Edited September 15, 2019 by kermit

[southslider]

Just reaching Fort Mill from 485 would be longer than BLE. Going all the way to Rock Hill from 485 would be longer than the entire Blue Line. Even barely crossing the state line via Johnston Rd would double the very short extension to Ballantyne via Carolina Place.

77 is becoming the prime BRT corridor. Already advancing in planning north to the Lake.  And logical to include south.  85 is the best commuter rail corridor. Especially northeast via NCRR.  74 is the only light rail corridor. But there too, only barely reaching adjoining counties to the west and southeast. 

[SgtCampsalot]

Can't blame them for high-balling CLT first 

[Matthew.Brendan]

Rock Hill would need heavy rail commuter trains, no?

[kermit]

On 9/15/2019 at 10:34 AM, Matthew.Brendan said:

Rock Hill would need heavy rail commuter trains, no?

IMO commuter rail to Gatweay station (via airport) is the best option for Rock Hill. It will require lots of $$$ for NS to consent but it should be easier than getting NS to go along with the Red line for a long list of political reasons (not the least of which is it will have two states lobbying for it).

I would imagine stations as something like (from South to North): 

• Chester (maybe, its a long way for a small population),
• Rock Hill South (park and ride),
• Downtown RH / Winthrop,
• I-77 / Manchester (park and ride),  
• Fort Mill downtown,
• Heritage Ministries (park and ride),
• Downtown Pineville, (Main st)
• 485 / Blue Line,
• Woodlawn and S Tryon (or Tyvola area office park near Minuet)
• West blvd (airport shuttle stop -- West blvd Busway???),
• Gateway Station (with possible infill at Donald Ross or Charlotte pipe).

Its 25 miles from the West Charlotte Junction to downtown Rock Hill, to do commuter rail properly that would all need to be double tracked plus sidings for stations: figure about $400  million for the track work. About  half of the mileage and stations would be in SC (not counting the Chester extension). The route would not be a big benefit for transit within Charlotte so I would think about 75% of the money would need to come from SC. CATS contributions would also include a) and service center / storage yard; b) track upgrades from Gateway to West Charlotte junction that would be needed for Gaston county and airport commuter rail.

Its nearly 20 more miles to Chester, but that could be much lower frequency so the existing single track might be OK.  Top speeds could be 70mph in SC and probably 50mph in Charlotte. Figure on a 50 minute trip from RH with lots of track improvements. 

The light rail that McMaster thinks he wants from 485 to RH would be around 17 miles of new LRT track -- figure at least $2 billion (probably more) for that alternative -- all of it on SC's dime.

Alternatively they could shuttle Diesel Motive Units from Rock Hill to the 485 station for a transfer. This would be much cheaper, but slow the RH-Uptown commute. It is what they do in Denton Texas to connect to the DART system:  https://dcta.net/service-overview/a-train-rail-service  (its cheaper but it will still require significant track upgrades on NS. Keep in mind that its NOT regulatoraly possible for trains which run on the NS tracks to also run on the Blue Line tracks (the two systems cannot even be connected), so the best you can hope for at I-485 is a cross-platform transfer.

The DCTA service is nice, but it feels too slow to be useful for commuting from Denton to Dallas (I have not seen ridership data for it, I have only been a rider).

Southsider is right, LRT is not the right choice (slow plus superduper expensive). McMaster just has no clue about how trains and transit works and I am not sure there is anyone in SCDOT who can set him straight.

Edited September 17, 2019 by kermit

[SgtCampsalot]

10 hours ago, kermit said:

Southsider is right, LRT is not the right choice (slow plus superduper expensive). McMaster just has no clue about how trains and transit works and I am not sure there is anyone in SCDOT who can set him straight.

All that matters is he is showing his transplant constituents that he is pushing for a popular rail connection to the metro his constituency moved to SC to still be a part of... As long as the two parties spin the negotions properly, DMU commuter rail can seem like a win to SC down the road.

[kermit]

Expect to hear a good bit more about regional commuter rail in the near future as the COG begins to roll out its regional transportation plans.

The Observer has an OK article on Commuter rail to Rock Hill. Nothing much in it we don't already know, but fortunately John Lewis did make clear that light rail aint going down there, no matter what McMaster says.  The article also mentions that SC counties can't, currently, join the MTC.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article235398657.html

None of this will happen for a long while, but as someone who was on 77 South today (a very rare occurrence) its very clear to me than waiting 10 years for regional transit is going to damage the region.

[Desert Power]

What path would commuter rail to Rock Hill take/potential stops?

[southslider]

What's easier--  (A) convincing freight railroads to share their tracks with new, multiple commuter trains, or (B) converting one lane for BRT on the widest freeway (77 S of 485) in the region?

[dubone]

While interconnectedness is good, CATS should focus on building out the core system before all these commuter spurs.  Rock Hill is far and has a far smaller population than sections of Charlotte.  Clearly SC's motivation is like always. to pull economic interests from Charlotte into their state.  I'm happy the Blue Line is now pursuing the Ballantyne course, which has a far better result in connecting Charlotte business hub to residences.

 

If SC pursues and pays for something, good for them, I'm sure it won't be blocked, but it is really not a priority for CATS and Charlotte to try to do it. 

[Hushpuppy321]

I second that notion wholeheartedly.  The LightRail system should serve Charlotte/Mecklenburg County.  Commuter Rail should be developed for North-South Corridor and East-West Corridors.  

[CarolinaDaydreamin]

2 minutes ago, Hushpuppy321 said:

I second that notion wholeheartedly.  The LightRail system should serve Charlotte/Mecklenburg County.  Commuter Rail should be developed for North-South Corridor and East-West Corridors.  

Light Rail could go into Cabarrus and into Gaston and I'd be ok with it.