CATS Long Term Transit Plan - Silver, Red Lines

[Dale]

14 hours ago, JacksonH said:

I'm sorry, but the person who posted that comment in the WaPo scolding them for not spelling out the state where Charlotte is located should be ashamed of his or herself for being so ignorant.  That is absurd.  Who here does not know the states where these cities are located:  Indianapolis, El Paso, Nashville, Memphis, Las Vegas, Milwaukee, Albuquerque, Tucson, Fresno, Sacramento, Raleigh, Omaha, Tulsa, New Orleans, Cleveland, Bakersfield, Honolulu, Corpus Christi, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh?  Guess what these cities have in common?  All of them have populations smaller than Charlotte AND are in metro areas that are smaller than the Charlotte metro area. 

There are nearly 3 million people in the Charlotte area.  There are two major league sports teams in Charlotte.  Major national banks are headquartered in Charlotte.  A political convention has been held in Charlotte.  It's frequently cited for its rapid growth.  It's on national weather maps on TV and in newspapers.  During elections, North Carolina is frequently covered in the news because of its swing state status, and they always drill down on what's going on in Charlotte and Raleigh.  Bottom line: Charlotte is frequently in the news for various reasons pertaining to wide-ranging topics.  It's not a secret city! And it's stunning to me that someone who reads the Washington Post hasn't run across any of the numerous news items about the city to know what friggin' state it is in.

“Nobody’s ever heard of it. So everybody’s moving there.” 

— something that Yogi Berra might have said about Charlotte —

[Trickbot]

It was dark and I couldn't get a good picture but there is a silver line vehicle at the north maintenance station 

[kermit]

2 hours ago, Trickbot said:

It was dark and I couldn't get a good picture but there is a silver line vehicle at the north maintenance station 

You mean Gold Line -- the Silver Line is years away from ordering vehicles. There are four of Gold Line units at the North yard at the moment.

Edited December 7, 2019 by kermit

[Trickbot]

2 hours ago, kermit said:

You mean Gold Line -- the Silver Line is years away from ordering vehicles. There are four of Gold Line units at the North yard at the moment.

Yeah that's what I meant, I get my colors confused sometimes,  and the vehicle is similar to the current ones but a little lower and has a different paint scheme that is mostly silver

[kermit]

While not directly related to CATS, a useable bike network is important for establishing a viable transit plan. The numbers below translated to US metrics are: $33 million USD and 50 miles of protected bike lanes. 

 

Related to real time tracking at CATS Ely sez: https://ui.uncc.edu/story/cats-bus-service-increase-ridership

Quote

Better GPS tracking

Right now, CATS’ app shows when buses are expected to be somewhere, not where they actually are. Lewis said that will soon change, with real-time GPS tracking of buses available to riders through the app. 

That means if the bus is late, you’ll be able to see how far away it is. And if you’re cutting it close, you’ll be able to see if you missed the bus or if it’s still on its way.

“We’re on the path to that,” said Lewis. While he didn’t give an exact time, he said he expects GPS bus tracking will be available to app users “before the end of spring.” [emphases added]

1) its about F'in time!
2) Please god, include the Blue Line!
3) WTF did it take so long????????

In the same article there were some useful data points on what happens when frequency increases:

Quote

No. 19 on Park Road has seen a 22 percent ridership increase since frequency was increased from 20 to 15 minutes.

This same principle will also work on the Blue Line, and have the benefit of reducing crowding from CTC to points South.

Edited December 18, 2019 by kermit

[southslider]

3 hours ago, kermit said:

3) WTF did it take so long????????

Because they went with a crappy vendor and platform. Internal testing showed it wasn't a true real-time app, yet they rolled with it.

[tozmervo]

I have a totally unsubstantiated feeling that the now-previous CTO for CATS wasn't very good. They certainly had a lot of huge obstacles, like the Mecklenburg County hacking incident that seriously set all IT projects back, but it's still frustrating that it's taken so long. 

A couple of months ago they contracted with Trapeze Group to develop the new app. Trapeze has developed apps for many systems, large and small, and has been doing so for some time, so that gives me some hope that it will be quality. And they have good reason to push for Spring launch: they won't launch it too close to the RNC. 

[Windsurfer]

Interesting snippets from John Lewis on "Charlotte Talks" this morning. Among several, the reasons for not running the line into the airport were: 1)  "Security"  2) logistics of building bridges over obsticals would impede landings and takeoffs.   He said that the airport is working on ideas for "people movers out to a landing on Wilkerson".

[Matthew.Brendan]

I'll have to listen to that, thanks. Side note from this morning, caught the train a bit later than usual (just after 8:00) and it was only 1 car and jam packed. After 25th street I watched people at every following stop until 7th not board the train due to crowding. 

[davidclt]

9 minutes ago, Matthew.Brendan said:

I'll have to listen to that, thanks. Side note from this morning, caught the train a bit later than usual (just after 8:00) and it was only 1 car and jam packed. After 25th street I watched people at every following stop until 7th not board the train due to crowding. 

In the past month, I've seen them running a single consist during rush hour more and more. The rolling stock is in a need of an overhaul since daily equipment failures appear to be the new norm for the Blue Line. That said, there's not enough rolling stock to take much of the existing rolling stock out of service. Not clear why they have to test new trains for 1,000 hours before it's ready for passenger service?

[kermit]

2 minutes ago, davidclt said:

 Not clear why they have to test new trains for 1,000 hours before it's ready for passenger service?

FTA requirement

[sakami]

Could CATS not just pay the Here Comes the Bus app group to handle their GPS tracking? Honestly CMS provides transportation for over 100,000 kids a day and while it isn’t perfect the Here Comes the Bus app is the greatest thing that’s happened to me in a long time. I can track my kids arrival to and from school down the almost the minute. I recognize that their transportation networks aren’t exactly the same but GPS tracking doesn’t seem very hard to provide anymore. 

[kermit]

I FOIA'ed it so you don't have to. The CATS Quarterly report is now available (but not to the general public....): https://charlottenc.gov/cats/about/boards/FTA Quarterly/FTA-Quarterly-Agenda-191217.pdf

A few highlights:

The Major Accomplishments highlight section at the start of the document lists this as one:

• New South End Station

But there is absolutely zero additional mention of that in the report

BLE:

• On board fare validation (e.g. tap in to ride) is expected to occur by 3/14/20 (pdf p 22)
• Contractors are still working on the following track and signalling issues: There are several outstanding quality issues that need to be resolved by the Track and Systems contractor, including track movement, EGM (gate mechanism), GVM (Ground Volt Monitor), and Public Address System.
• Balfour Beatty appears to still be an awful partner

Gold Line Phase 2:

• The last vehicle shipped from Sacramento this month
• Interior shot of streetcar #406 below
• Vehicle testing is scheduled to be complete in June (they could put them on the Blue Line for added frequency then!)
• Bridge construction complete in "April 2020"
• Substantial project construction completion "September 2020"
• Target revenue service date "February 2021" [John Lewis said on Charlotte Talks yesterday that revenue service "will begin before 2021"]

Gateway Station:

• Selection of developer is expected in April 2020

Silver Line:

Quote

Corridor Preservation – Several private development plans are emerging that are potentially in conflict with the LYNX Silver Line project. CATS staff are working with key developers and property owners through the City of Charlotte Land Development and Rezoning process to accommodate the LYNX Silver Line, but there may be instances where corridor preservation, as outlined in the FTA Final Guidance on the Application of 49 USC 5323 to Corridor Preservation for a Transit Project may be appropriate. A letter was issued to the FTA on December 6, 2019 requesting approval to initiate corridor preservation

• [Preliminary Engineering contract} WSP USA Inc. was selected by a multi-departmental evaluation team as the best qualified firm. Negotiations are underway. On November 12, 2019, Charlotte City Council awarded the contract to WSP.
• On December 9, 2019, Alta Planning was selected for planning the Silver Line Rail Trail

Edited December 20, 2019 by kermit

[tozmervo]

Of related interest elsewhere on UP - Virginia announced some major rail plans today being discussed in the thread below. 

 

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, kermit said:

 

The Major Accomplishments highlight section at the start of the document lists this as one:

• New South End Station

 

The station is almost completely funded, its identified as a cap project. Its prioritized 

[Desert Power]

Where is the new South End Station going to be?

[kermit]

18 minutes ago, Desert Power said:

Where is the new South End Station going to be?

Publix /Portman building / Sycamore

[kermit]

The cost of buying the tracks for the Red Line from Gateway to Mount Mourne should be $50 million*

* Roughly based on the amount VADOT spent today to buy the RF&P ROW between the Potomac and Richmond today (a bit less than $2 million per mile). That line is VERY busy with both freight and passenger rail and is the only CSX route between the South and North East (see the NC Passenger Rail thread)

Having said that, I don't think commuter rail to the lake will ever be faster than the toll lane BRT which is currently planned to run direct from all of the existing park and ride lots beginning in February.

Edited December 20, 2019 by kermit

[KJHburg]

Great story on the CATS bus system and its challenges.  as I have said before we can't afford rail everywhere or even to biggest employment nodes we need buses to work better.

https://ui.uncc.edu/story/cats-bus-service-increase-ridership

[Madison Parkitect]

12 hours ago, kermit said:

Publix /Portman building / Sycamore

Such a smart move to put a new station there, it'll help Atherton too. The other night I was there and parking was a madhouse even on a Wednesday night.

[videtur quam contuor]

I was there 11 am yesterday and spaces aplenty. Evening, a different situation.

[Seaboard Fellow]

11 hours ago, kermit said:

Having said that, I don't think commuter rail to the lake will ever be faster than the toll lane BRT which is currently planned to run direct from all of the existing park and ride lots beginning in February.

I have to agree with you. BRT will be a superior travel mode on the Red Line corridor. The only way I believe rail becomes viable to Mount Mourne is if it’s combined with rail service to Rock Hill as regional rail. 

[Hushpuppy321]

3 minutes ago, Seaboard Fellow said:

I have to agree with you. BRT will be a superior travel mode on the Red Line corridor. The only way I believe rail becomes viable to Mount Mourne is if it’s combined with rail service to Rock Hill as regional rail. 

I would love to see Future Plans for regional Commuter Rail for the Greater Charlotte Region.  Lightrail & BRT should mostly serve Mecklenburg County.

A North-South Route.  Mt. Mourne/Statesville to Rock Hill (Including Ft. Mill)

A East-West Route.  Monroe to Gastonia

A Northeast Route.  Salisbury to Charlotte (Including Kannapolis & Concord)

[ertley]

1 hour ago, Hushpuppy321 said:

I would love to see Future Plans for regional Commuter Rail for the Greater Charlotte Region.  Lightrail & BRT should mostly serve Mecklenburg County.

A North-South Route.  Mt. Mourne/Statesville to Rock Hill (Including Ft. Mill)

A East-West Route.  Monroe to Gastonia

A Northeast Route.  Salisbury to Charlotte (Including Kannapolis & Concord)

I would be even more ambitious--I would have the regional North-South (eventually) go farther south, to Richburg, in lieu of Chester--it's not a destination but it's midway between Chester and Lancaster, their exit point on 77--and especially if you live in Chester, driving five or so miles to/from a regional rail station is nothing in the morning and evening, and  would help Lancaster folks get in on the regional rail action. It's roughly the same distance as Statesville, which should be the first line laid, obvs.

I personally think Carowinds would be a win-win place to have a transfer station between the southern leg of the regional rail and a spur of the Blue Line from Pineville. When Carowinds is in operation, they'd get scads of folks taking both Lynx and light rail there--who wants to bother with the hassle of Carowinds Boulevard and the parking? And there's *so* much parking lot there only really used, and then not fully except on the weekends, for three months out of the year, right on 77, that would be easy to build a station and park-and-ride.  

I know people keep poo-poo'ing the Silver Line going all the way to Gastonia, in favor of regional rail, but I think the Silver Line should go all the way to downtown Gastonia, and then in downtown Gastonia link the Silver Line to regional rail that goes west (and maybe north too). I did a (very unscientific) comparison on Google Maps, and the Red Line of DC's Metro (with which I'm most familiar, in terms of other transit systems) goes roughly 16 miles outside DC to Shady Grove, past Rockville, and that's roughly the distance from downtown Charlotte to Gastonia.

Anyone who's been through downtown Gastonia knows they have *plenty* of space to work with to build a mini-Gateway station with regional rail coming in to a combined station/platform to transfer to light rail. I would take the regional rail west to Shelby to start, and then eventually on to Rutherfordton (later phase), and then maybe one day to Asheville. You could also (long term) build another line coming down from Hickory and through Lincolnton. Obviously taking such a NW line directly into Charlotte would be preferable, but development that's already happening in NW Charlotte likely already makes that a cost-prohibitive option. 

As far as Monroe, it definitely seems too far to take the Silver Line, but I worry more about Albemarle and that general vicinity having access to *some* form of mass transit. At least every other area talked about has an existing controlled access highway directly into Charlotte, but they don't even have that, so I think there needs to be some kind of planning now for linking them to the city. Worst case scenario, Monroe can develop a shuttle system to get folks to and fro the last Lynx station at CPCC or Stallings. 

Just my thoughts...

Edited December 20, 2019 by ertley

[Spartan]

If you're using commuter rail on existing tracks, you'd have to go to Chester in order to get to Richburg.