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CATS Long Term Transit Plan - Silver, Red, Airport Lines

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7 hours ago, kermit said:

I would bet that MetroRapid will do well. The non-stop routes will be as fast (faster for some) and cheaper than driving. I also think they will benefit from some of the anger about tolls. The problem will be that since each route only has a single stop their ridership will be very constrained by the size of the park and ride lots (scooters and better bike paths could bump ridership by improving local circulation).

MetroRapid ridership will be handicapped by the initial loss of existing riders around Gateway Village. In Uptown, the routes will now travel Church and 3rd inbound, plus 4th and College outbound.  While there are plenty of buses still serving West Trade at peak times, including remaining express routes, most Express riders don't transfer.  And that's why the new 290 feeder in Davidson to/from the 77x likely won't do too well either.  But North Meck Towns need some concessions to distract from never seeing the Red Line.

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7 hours ago, southslider said:

MetroRapid ridership will be handicapped by the initial loss of existing riders around Gateway Village. In Uptown, the routes will now travel Church and 3rd inbound, plus 4th and College outbound.  While there are plenty of buses still serving West Trade at peak times, including remaining express routes, most Express riders don't transfer.  And that's why the new 290 feeder in Davidson to/from the 77x likely won't do too well either.  But North Meck Towns need some concessions to distract from never seeing the Red Line.

There will be some loss to gateway, but the new routing in uptown also accesses a much larger area of uptown, including all the new work down at Stonewall. I think as folks learn the new routing you'll definitely see an increase.

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The last best chance for commuter rail in Indianapolis was the Monon Railroad line. This railroad was called the Hoosier Line and connected Chicago with the Ohio River and many other locations in the central Midwest. The Monon in Indianapolis and environs also served as a commuter line in the early to mid 20th century due to its numerous stations within Marion County (Indianapolis). Thus residential development abutted the line throughout this period for those without autos or preferring rail commuting. Contrast this to our South Boulevard equivalent rail line which was freight exclusive within Mecklenburg, to my knowledge. By the 1980's Monon was vanishing as an operating railway and the line became the origin of the Greenway in the mid 90's. At that time it was too soon for planners to consider transit and commuter rail and the towns and neighborhoods wanted the amenity of recreation on the line so abandonment was the process. This also happens to be a greenway through some of the most affluent areas of central Indiana. This Bus "Rapid" transit line parallels the Monon route a few blocks west of the former line. 

As a capital city significant employment in central Indianapolis is governmental which may account for the limited appeal of the BRT (my guess).

Tarhoosier- I grew up within walking distance of the 38th street station of the Monon in Indy

https://monon.org/monmemories09-06.html

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5 hours ago, tozmervo said:

There will be some loss to gateway, but the new routing in uptown also accesses a much larger area of uptown, including all the new work down at Stonewall. I think as folks learn the new routing you'll definitely see an increase.

I agree the Stonewall area would be a good swap for Gateway Village, but the morning routing doesn't go south of 3rd St. At least the evening routing serves Convention Center on College, getting a little closer to new towers on S Tryon and Stonewall. But typically, workers want a shorter walk in the morning to arrive to work than in the evening leaving.

The Government Center was kept as the one area away from Tryon (or Church and College Streets). But since many of those workers have free passes, they should have made them transfer from Church and 3rd in the morning and back to College and 4th in the evening.

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On 2/1/2020 at 7:11 PM, kermit said:

The Indy case is interesting because they had a huge debate about a big LRT-oriented transit plan, but it ended when the state government passed a law in 2014 banning LRT in "Central Indiana" and additionally prohibiting the use of state funds on LRT

That is so sad and amazing at the same time that laws are being passed that literally outlaw trains. Good job guys.

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Presidential budgets mean nothing these days but it is worth noting that the Orange administration is proposing to double the new starts budget for transit in FY21. Its still a fraction of what is needed however...

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, kermit said:

Presidential budgets mean nothing these days but it is worth noting that the Orange administration is proposing to double the new starts budget for transit in FY21. Its still a fraction of what is needed however...

 

 

 

I wonder if Charlotte can jump on that.

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6 minutes ago, southslider said:

^queue-jumpers would be better on Providence Rd

What is that? A bus bypass around queues at stoplights?

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2 hours ago, tozmervo said:

Yup. 

800px-Queue_Jump_-_Continued_Lane.png

With strict enforcement and immediate license revocation for anyone who isn't a bus using them. They would need proper pull outs for the buses too  on the street.

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13 minutes ago, davidclt said:

With strict enforcement and immediate license revocation for anyone who isn't a bus using them. They would need proper pull outs for the buses too  on the street.

Do bus pullouts help speed the bus? I would think they would just make it harder for buses to merge back into traffic.

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7 minutes ago, kermit said:

Do bus pullouts help speed the bus? I would think they would just make it harder for buses to merge back into traffic.

I assumed the pull-out included signal prioritization to give the bus a 2-3 second head start. Regardless, I wish buses in NC had signs similar to the following from Washington state which includes a cite to the Revised Code of Washington 46.61.220.

yield.png

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3 hours ago, davidclt said:

With strict enforcement and immediate license revocation for anyone who isn't a bus using them. They would need proper pull outs for the buses too  on the street.

I like it but traffic enforcement, in my experience, is virtually non existent. Obviously a lower priority than criminal law but I don't think I've ever lived in a place with so little traffic police. Funding? Least desirable job? Not sure.

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8 hours ago, elrodvt said:

I like it but traffic enforcement, in my experience, is virtually non existent. Obviously a lower priority than criminal law but I don't think I've ever lived in a place with so little traffic police. Funding? Least desirable job? Not sure.

We need sane enforcement, well and reasonably timed signals, and reasonable speed limits based on the 85th percentile. We also need to ensure transit has priority on all routes and refuge, benches and trash cans at each stop.

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2 hours ago, davidclt said:

We need sane enforcement, well and reasonably timed signals, and reasonable speed limits based on the 85th percentile. We also need to ensure transit has priority on all routes and refuge, benches and trash cans at each stop.

We need to do away with the 85th percentile bs.  Either design the roads to 100%, post a speed limit that reflects this condition, and enforce it aggressively, or just do away with speed limits altogether.  Right now they're pretty arbitrary and not obeyed by anyone (including police).

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1 hour ago, nicholas said:

We need to do away with the 85th percentile bs.  Either design the roads to 100%, post a speed limit that reflects this condition, and enforce it aggressively, or just do away with speed limits altogether.  Right now they're pretty arbitrary and not obeyed by anyone (including police).

The issue is, speed limits are more politics than engineering in many cases. Most things are more political than scientific/engineering. That said, while in theory I'd love to live in an engineers' world it would probably be a bit too unchaotic for many.

I do think CATS problems may be a lack of engineering (and maintenance) rigor combined with CDOT's lack of engineering (driven by politics).

Edited by davidclt
Clean up of hiccup
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Might just be my sample size but it feels like Blue Line reliability has improved a smidge over last month.

PM peak crowding of course remains an issue.

Edited by kermit
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6 hours ago, davidclt said:

The issue is, speed limits are more politics than engineering in many cases. Most things are more political than scientific/engineering. That said, while in theory I'd love to live in an engineers' world it would probably be a bit too unchaotic for many.

I do think CATS problems may be a lack of engineering (and maintenance) rigor combined with CDOT's lack of engineering (driven by politics).

I understand that, but I still think it's dumb to post limits lower than what the road was designed for, then wonder why no one obeys the posted limits.

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1 hour ago, nicholas said:

I understand that, but I still think it's dumb to post limits lower than what the road was designed for, then wonder why no one obeys the posted limits.

Except when the road is designed for drivers without regard to pedestrians....

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4 hours ago, kermit said:

Except when the road is designed for drivers without regard to pedestrians....

Well a lot of the problem is that the roads are still designed around cars.  Even when sidewalks and bike lanes are present, they're largely just thrown in as a token gesture.  People only slow down when a - the lanes are narrow, and b - when there are visual obstacles that create uncomfortableness (such as trees and/or parked cars).  People drive at pretty reasonable speeds down parts of N Tryon St and Graham St that were built back when lane standards were much narrower (probably 10 feet wide), and really slow on Tryon St in uptown, but they haul ass down the newer roads with 12 foot lanes.

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