CATS Long Term Transit Plan - Silver, Red Lines

[michaelef]

One thing I noticed in the Gold Line presentation is that CATS is looking to upgrade it's brand look...well a little bit. I've been hoping for a new look on the buses. What does everyone think? Also does anyone know the timeline of the new city buses? 

[SgtCampsalot]

8 minutes ago, michaelef said:

One thing I noticed in the Gold Line presentation is that CATS is looking to upgrade it's brand look...well a little bit. I've been hoping for a new look on the buses. What does everyone think? Also does anyone know the timeline of the new city buses? 

That's not the same as now? 

[michaelef]

The train branding is the same, but the buses are different.

[Matthew.Brendan]

I'm sure it's been discussed elsewhere in the past, but can I get a quick primer on the difference between the street car and light rail? Seems like they are more similar than different. 

They are both electrified overhead? Same gauge track? Just street car is more rudimentary and low speed, and therefore less requisite infrastructure? (platforms etc)

 

I'm a proponent for both but it seems like they should nearly be interchangeable. We will soon have two different incompatible rail networks coming into the heart of uptown? (And this is to talk nothing of "next gen" rail, and autonomous systems. For a "brand new" city, Charlotte is having a hard enough time fighting to install rail transportation from the last century, seemingly oblivious to the coming, and (depending on where you live) already present advances.

 

 

[kermit]

^ Streetcars are lighter and have a tighter turning radius and have a lower top speed (I believe). The Gold Line is also being built for single vehicle only operation due to platform lengths, but I think its possible to run coupled multi-vehicle streetcar trains like LRT. These subtle differences allow for less expensive (and less robust) track construction. There are post somewhere on UP by people who know more than me who say the Gold Line tracks can support the weight of Blue Line vehicles but I can't remember details.

I believe that platform heights are the same so there should be no barriers to running the new Gold Line vehicles on the Blue Line if CATS ever decided they wanted to interline (this is all theoretical, the necessary connections between systems are not being planned)

[LKN704]

Not to change the subject, but I can't believe we are so close to the extension opening and CATS has yet to launch/announce a smart-card payment system.

[ajfunder]

11 hours ago, Matthew.Brendan said:

I'm sure it's been discussed elsewhere in the past, but can I get a quick primer on the difference between the street car and light rail? Seems like they are more similar than different. 

They are both electrified overhead? Same gauge track? Just street car is more rudimentary and low speed, and therefore less requisite infrastructure? (platforms etc)

 

I'm a proponent for both but it seems like they should nearly be interchangeable. We will soon have two different incompatible rail networks coming into the heart of uptown? (And this is to talk nothing of "next gen" rail, and autonomous systems. For a "brand new" city, Charlotte is having a hard enough time fighting to install rail transportation from the last century, seemingly oblivious to the coming, and (depending on where you live) already present advances.

 

 

Essentially they are the same. The only thing restricting the current LRT vehicles from running on the Gold Line is the turning radius. They are both standard gauge Siemens S70 light rail vehicles with the new streetcars being slightly shorter (turning radius). They run off the same power source and have the same platform height. Technically you could run the streetcars in tandem but platform length is the limiting factor on the streetcar route. 

 

In Europe, most of the tram systems function seamlessly as both what we define separately in the US as streetcar and light rail.

[Spartan]

On 5/11/2017 at 0:21 PM, UPNoDa said:

Not comparing Charlotte to Dubai in any way shape or form, but Dubai Metro has completed both Red and Green lines totaling 43 miles of lines and 47 stations all in six short years.  Their 2030 masterplan includes 262 miles of metro lines to cater to the expected 4.1 million population of the city. There are plans for 167 miles of light rail tracks to act as a feeder system for the Metro, although the fate of this entire network is now dependent on an economic recovery and private investment (read: Royal Family contributions) The fare system is subsidized so it's not in the "for-profit" category to say the least, but I do recall reading somewhere they will have finally broke even by 2017-18.

I guess my point is, even without private funding, why do so many cities seem to be fast-tracking light rail and we are so far behind?

All it takes is money. If you have enough of it, you can build whatever you want at essentially whatever speed you want. Honestly the bigger problem here might be the lack of qualified companies to build transit systems at that speed.

 

On 5/30/2017 at 4:40 PM, michaelef said:

One thing I noticed in the Gold Line presentation is that CATS is looking to upgrade it's brand look...well a little bit. I've been hoping for a new look on the buses. What does everyone think? Also does anyone know the timeline of the new city buses? 

Meh. I think it's kinda boring, but I do appreciate the change and consistency amongst the designs. The only thing I really can't stand are the wraps and the super-tinted windows - both of which prevent you from seeing inside. I like to start scouting for seats as soon as the bus pulls up, and I like the idea that people who aren't in the bus can look in an see that there are normal people riding it.

 

On 5/31/2017 at 7:29 AM, ajfunder said:

Essentially they are the same. The only thing restricting the current LRT vehicles from running on the Gold Line is the turning radius. They are both standard gauge Siemens S70 light rail vehicles with the new streetcars being slightly shorter (turning radius). They run off the same power source and have the same platform height. Technically you could run the streetcars in tandem but platform length is the limiting factor on the streetcar route. 

I was under the impression that the streetcar tracks were being designed so that LRT vehicles could run on them if needed (ie: potential for being a silver line route). I could be wrong about that.

[southslider]

How Silver Line connects or continues through Uptown hasn't yet been resolved.

[Nick2]

#teamtunnel

[kermit]

The June quarterly report to the FTA is now available. CATS continues to underwhelm with late-stage BLE construction:

Quote

The Revenue Service Date slipped from November 26, 2017 to December 28, 2017 during the BL 102 Schedule Update.

from page 28:

http://charlottenc.gov/cats/about/boards/_layouts/15/WopiFrame.aspx?sourcedoc=/cats/about/boards/FTA%20Quarterly/FTA-Quarterly-Meeting-170615.pdf

The other miscellaneous thing that caught my eye:

The Gateway Station area plan is due this month (p157)

There is lots of info about the causes of the BLE delay (I skipped over it) and a large amount of detail on Gold Line Phase 2 (revenue service date is now tentatively listed as March 2020). There is only cursory info (and nothing new) about planning for the North and West corridors and no mention of the Silver Line.

Edited June 9, 2017 by kermit

[nmundo]

I noticed this new TVM at 7th St Station earlier today and I don't think I've seen anyone point it out here. It says something along the lines of "test machine not in service" on it and it seems to accept basically any payment system out right now. Swipe, chip, and NFC (there's a MasterCard PayPass logo on it.) Along with maybe change cards (hopefully the buses start giving those out soon. and contactless fare cards. I'm really excited to see what kind of fare card system they end up implementing, and also being able to buy a ticket with Apple Pay.

 

Edited June 11, 2017 by nmundo

[LKN704]

Bless.

Hopefully they will be more reliable than the previous TVMs which today always seem to be out of service. And of course-these TVM's have contactless capability which hopefully means we are close to a system being launched.

Were there any stand alone card processing fare boxes installed on the platform? These are used to "tap-in" to the system, and CATS wanted to start charging my zone/distance, "tap-out". Some systems also have card readers installed on the trains themselves, usually attached to a handrail near the doors.

I do wonder if CATS would ever look into the implementation of fare zones. Having a contactless fare payment system would make implementation so much easier. For example, anything between UNCC and Sugar Creek could be Zone 3, anything between 36th St and New Bern could be Zone 1, and anything between Scalybark and I485 could be Zone 2.

[Matthew.Brendan]

No Apple Pay, booo

[Squid7085]

1 hour ago, Matthew.Brendan said:

No Apple Pay, booo

It the readers have contactless capability (Which it looks like they do), it should work with Apple Pay even if it doesn't explicitly say so, as it uses the same technology.

[elrodvt]

and more importantly android pay?

[Matthew.Brendan]

1 hour ago, Squid7085 said:

It the readers have contactless capability (Which it looks like they do), it should work with Apple Pay even if it doesn't explicitly say so, as it uses the same technology.

Ahh very true. I had forgotten this fact. 

[nmundo]

Yeah, it has the MasterCard PayPass logo on it which is the same tech as Apple, android, Samsung pay use. Hopefully it will actually be enabled though.


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[jednc]

20 hours ago, nmundo said:

Yeah, it has the MasterCard PayPass logo on it which is the same tech as Apple, android, Samsung pay use. Hopefully it will actually be enabled though.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

That is not the same tech as Samsung Pay.

[nmundo]

1 hour ago, jednc said:

That is not the same tech as Samsung Pay.

Samsung Pay is NFC, just like Apple and Android Pay. Has a fallback to magstripe emulation but prefers NFC. PayPass is RFID, not the same tech but to the end user it might as well be since anywhere you see the PayPass logo any contactless payment card will work (including mobile wallets) so I didn't think making the distinction was important.

[kermit]

It does not impact us for quite a few more years but the state funding cap on light rail projects remains in place for another year. 

Meanwhile the legislature has no problem spending virtually infinite amounts on new bypasses....

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article158278549.html

 

[ChessieCat]

5 hours ago, kermit said:

It does not impact us for quite a few more years but the state funding cap on light rail projects remains in place for another year. 

Meanwhile the legislature has no problem spending virtually infinite amounts on new bypasses....

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article158278549.html

 

Ridiculous.  Metro areas like the Triangle provide the majority of state taxdollars but the bumpkins ruling the state will never admit that... 

[SgtCampsalot]

30 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

Ridiculous.  Metro areas like the Triangle provide the majority of state taxdollars but the bumpkins ruling the state will never admit that... 

One argument is that the metros effectively "steal" all the economic activity.

Edited June 27, 2017 by SgtCampsalot

[ChessieCat]

4 minutes ago, SgtCampsalot said:

One argument is that the metros effectively "steal" all the economic activity.

Hmmm, RTP steals economic activity from... where?

[ah59396]

9 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

Hmmm, RTP steals economic activity from... where?

RTP is just sucking up all the tech jobs that would otherwise be in Mt. Airy, Yanceyville or Lumberton.