CATS Long Term Transit Plan - Silver, Red Lines

[CLT>]

On 9/1/2021 at 5:54 PM, tarhoosier said:

My cards have NFC symbol and I assume they are supported. Is that a reasonable assumption? I could also use my ApplePay which is connected to one of my cards. I go there every 6 to twelve months so.

 

Apple Pay works great with OMNY as well. One nice thing is that it also eliminated the hated double swipe of the old MetroCards!

[KJHburg]

Excellent analysis of the growth and development arond the Blue Line by UNCC.  

Part 1: How the Blue Line Extension changed Charlotte development | UNC Charlotte Urban Institute | UNC Charlotte

would most of these apartment complexes been built?  I think yes but they would be more scattered around the city much like Nashville which is rapidly growing intown but has no transit lines. 

This kinda proves why I think one of the funding mechanisms for new rail lines should be a tax district around the line so to capture the increased tax revenue generated by an expensive project like what is being proposed.  Similar to the Uptown tax district but with the extra property tax revenue going towards transit.   Developers tout their access to the light rail light and they tend to benefit greatly from these locations and that is why I think a taxing district should be considered.  Sales tax is highly regressive and is subject to ups and downs of the economy. 

[RANYC]

2 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

Excellent analysis of the growth and development arond the Blue Line by UNCC.  

Part 1: How the Blue Line Extension changed Charlotte development | UNC Charlotte Urban Institute | UNC Charlotte

would most of these apartment complexes been built?  I think yes but they would be more scattered around the city much like Nashville which is rapidly growing intown but has no transit lines. 

This kinda proves why I think one of the funding mechanisms for new rail lines should be a tax district around the line so to capture the increased tax revenue generated by an expensive project like what is being proposed.  Similar to the Uptown tax district but with the extra property tax revenue going towards transit.   Developers tout their access to the light rail light and they tend to benefit greatly from these locations and that is why I think a taxing district should be considered.  Sales tax is highly regressive and is subject to ups and downs of the economy. 

Took a quick look.

Am I seeing correctly that even though development within 1/4 mile of BL has increased significantly since the line opened, it's also increased county-wide by the same degree.  That BL-area growth really hasn't changed much as a % of the total value of construction permits issued in Meck County?  The BL-area  highlighted in the analysis had construction totaling 10% of total Meck County construction pre-BL, and it remains about 10% now.

[kermit]

So it appears that, even if CATS wanted to increase frequency they don't feel like they are able to due to staffing issues.

Do better CATS! (provide decent service, pay people the employees the market rate, stop making excuses)

Edited September 10, 2021 by kermit

[Desert Power]

1 hour ago, kermit said:

So it appears that, even if CATS wanted to increase frequency they don't feel like they are able to due to staffing issues.

Do better CATS! (provide decent service, pay people the employees the market rate, stop making excuses)

 

Terrible. CATS can't execute the basics, hard to see how they will ever convince voters on the longer term plans.

[js4life]

Everybody's hurting for help right now, my local Teeter closed it's deli & bakery at 4 in the afternoon because of staffing issues. I have also heard that HT might start closing it's dept & stores earlier sometime within the next couple of weeks

[CLT2014]

CATS has some job openings paying $80,000 to $100,000 a year, but not sure how many people in the area have experience with rail maintenance.

Edited September 11, 2021 by CLT2014

[DEnd]

On 9/9/2021 at 11:59 AM, RANYC said:

Took a quick look.

Am I seeing correctly that even though development within 1/4 mile of BL has increased significantly since the line opened, it's also increased county-wide by the same degree.  That BL-area growth really hasn't changed much as a % of the total value of construction permits issued in Meck County?  The BL-area  highlighted in the analysis had construction totaling 10% of total Meck County construction pre-BL, and it remains about 10% now.

Sort of.  But the BLE area projects became a larger percentage of overall growth once it was clear it was going to happen.   Before the BLE that area was getting about 1-2% of the growth in Charlotte, afterwards it got 2-5% (or more) of that growth. During the financial crisis it probably out performed the rest of Charlotte, likely because it was deep into the planning stages (but not yet a sure thing) driving some speculation.  By 2013 it was pretty much a sure thing.  That graph is horrible at showing scale.  Here are some better ones (numbers are my best guess based on the graph in the article):
 

 

 

 

 

*EDIT 2004 in the bar graph (Percentage of city wide housing unit permits BLE area represents) is off by an order of magnitude! on the graph I think it is showing  0.17% it should be 1.7%  which is much closer to the 2.1% 2005 shows.   I'm not gonna correct that graph as I've already closed the program out and it is a PITA to use.  

Edited September 14, 2021 by DEnd

[Mgelbach]

Out of curiosity, does anyone know how much Light rail or Street car operators make?

 

I was just on the CATS website and there's no mention of it.

[CLT2014]

22 minutes ago, Mgelbach said:

Out of curiosity, does anyone know how much Light rail or Street car operators make?

 

I was just on the CATS website and there's no mention of it.

Government salaries are all public down to the individual: https://data.charlottenc.gov/datasets/2eaeb9bbc40c4bc6816170ba08e71021/explore?filters=eyJKb2JfVGl0bGUiOlsiUmFpbCBPcGVyYXRvciJdfQ%3D%3D

The range for the rail operators looks to be $49,500 - $62,000 annually. 

Hourly rages for this job are more than double private sector jobs like being a shuttle driver for an airport hotel. Rail operators minimum requirements are a high school diploma, experience with the public, and experience operating a vehicle. Extra points go to candidates with experience specifically in public transit or light rail operation (but not required). 

Edited September 14, 2021 by CLT2014

[TGIBridays]

14 minutes ago, Mgelbach said:

Out of curiosity, does anyone know how much Light rail or Street car operators make?

 

I was just on the CATS website and there's no mention of it.

I can't find it now, but I saw a job listing for Rail operator the other day that said $24.xx/hr starting pay (so a bit over $50k).  Not sure why the opening isn't listed now.  Maybe they had a bunch of applicants (hopefully!) or it was a time limited post and they'll repost soon. 

[videtur quam contuor]

When I operated the original car 85 I was surprised that no driver license was necessary. I crossed public streets and intersection, had a police officer aboard but the trolley organization never asked for license. I hope that is different with CATS.

There were a few trolley operators who chose to go with CATS during the interim between trolley and light rail completion. They drove buses and needed commercial licensure, including physical exam to do so and then transitioned to light rail in 2007. It was my understanding then and also 2007-2009 when I was a conductor on Gomaco excursion weekend cars for CATS that light rail operators may also be assigned to bus duty. 

[Mgelbach]

Just now, tarhoosier said:

When I operated the original car 85 I was surprised that no driver license was necessary. I crossed public streets and intersection, had a police officer aboard but the trolley organization never asked for license. I hope that is different with CATS.

There were a few trolley operators who chose to go with CATS during the interim between trolley and light rail completion. They drove buses and needed commercial licensure, including physical exam to do so and then transitioned to light rail in 2007. It was my understanding then and also 2007-2009 when I was a conductor on Gomaco excursion weekend cars for CATS that light rail operators may also be assigned to bus duty. 

 

Just browsing their job requirements, you would need a Class B CDL by the time of your start date!

[kayman]

2 hours ago, CLT2014 said:

Government salaries are all public down to the individual: https://data.charlottenc.gov/datasets/2eaeb9bbc40c4bc6816170ba08e71021/explore?filters=eyJKb2JfVGl0bGUiOlsiUmFpbCBPcGVyYXRvciJdfQ%3D%3D

The range for the rail operators looks to be $49,500 - $62,000 annually. 

Hourly rages for this job are more than double private sector jobs like being a shuttle driver for an airport hotel. Rail operators minimum requirements are a high school diploma, experience with the public, and experience operating a vehicle. Extra points go to candidates with experience specifically in public transit or light rail operation (but not required). 

 

2 hours ago, TGIBridays said:

I can't find it now, but I saw a job listing for Rail operator the other day that said $24.xx/hr starting pay (so a bit over $50k).  Not sure why the opening isn't listed now.  Maybe they had a bunch of applicants (hopefully!) or it was a time limited post and they'll repost soon. 

CATS pays similar scale to The T in Pittsburgh. This is from 2019, but CATS pays their employees to levels comparable to other Tier I transit systems outside of the legacy ones in the Northeast and Chicago.

Ironically MARTA pays less for bus and rail operators than CATS. That's scary for Atlanta 

[CLT2014]

Some CATS updates:

• Average ridership per day was 1,283 on the Gold Line for first two days of ops
• CEO John Lewis is forecasting at least two years to reach the forecasted 4,100 passengers each weekday due to current work from home situation
• CATS ridership is still way off: Aug 2021 ridership was off 60% from August 2019, pre-pandemic. Ridership improved 10% from Aug 2020 though.

https://www.wfae.org/business/2021-09-20/early-charltotte-streetcar-ridership-is-low-showing-challenges-of-covid-pandemic

Edited September 21, 2021 by CLT2014

[Hushpuppy321]

I read a report yesterday (forgot the source) that's now saying the Planned Transit Tax Referendum may not be put forward in time for the 2022 Midterm Elections.  Folks are trying to get more Municipalities on board in a Regional Style focus to providing better mobility to the Region.  Not sure if this spells the beginning of the end of the Future Silverline and Blueline Extra Extension...?

[KJHburg]

Out in Dallas this week and rode DART from a far flung suburb North Carrollton into downtown Dallas and beyond.  Their system is quite impressive as it is the largest light rail system in the country.  93 miles 65 stations 4 lines plus commuter rail from downtown Dallas to Ft Worth and both cities downtowns have rail access to DFW Airport.  The Green line goes by  Love Field but you must take a shuttle bus to the airport as the station is ways off.  Plus commuter rail the A Train  to Denton.  Connects 2 major hospital complexes which is great Parkland the Baylor hospital complexes. 

Their system covers 4 counties Dallas primarily, Collin (Plano etc) Denton (with both DART and commuter rail) and Tarrant (Fort Worth with commuter and light rail)   The Dallas Fort Worth metroplex is every bit of car centric as Charlotte is but I observed lots of transit oriented development new apartments walking distance to stations and new suburban office towers like at CityLine in Richardson.   Their 2 car trains are much longer than ours and their 3 car trains which they were running today as the State Fair opened (and yes a station there on the Green Line) are a full block long.  I could not believe it.   Longest I had to wait was 16 minutes as I was transferring from the Green Line to the Orange Line but earlier on the Green Line trains every 10-12 minutes I noticed. 

[RANYC]

On 9/24/2021 at 9:00 PM, KJHburg said:

Out in Dallas this week and rode DART from a far flung suburb North Carrollton into downtown Dallas and beyond.  Their system is quite impressive as it is the largest light rail system in the country.  93 miles 65 stations 4 lines plus commuter rail from downtown Dallas to Ft Worth and both cities downtowns have rail access to DFW Airport.  The Green line goes by  Love Field but you must take a shuttle bus to the airport as the station is ways off.  Plus commuter rail the A Train  to Denton.  Connects 2 major hospital complexes which is great Parkland the Baylor hospital complexes. 

Their system covers 4 counties Dallas primarily, Collin (Plano etc) Denton (with both DART and commuter rail) and Tarrant (Fort Worth with commuter and light rail)   The Dallas Fort Worth metroplex is every bit of car centric as Charlotte is but I observed lots of transit oriented development new apartments walking distance to stations and new suburban office towers like at CityLine in Richardson.   Their 2 car trains are much longer than ours and their 3 car trains which they were running today as the State Fair opened (and yes a station there on the Green Line) are a full block long.  I could not believe it.   Longest I had to wait was 16 minutes as I was transferring from the Green Line to the Orange Line but earlier on the Green Line trains every 10-12 minutes I noticed. 

DART geographic area covers 700 square miles and 13 cities.  500+ million annual operating budget.  That's quite the regional cooperation.

CATS only covers a single county, correct?

[tozmervo]

2 hours ago, RANYC said:

DART geographic area covers 700 square miles and 13 cities.  500+ million annual operating budget.  That's quite the regional cooperation.

CATS only covers a single county, correct?

CATS has a few regional express buses that go outside of Mecklenburg limits, but in those specific cases the other county receiving service has to chip in 50% of the bus route cost. 

[lit]

On 9/14/2021 at 8:20 AM, Mgelbach said:

Out of curiosity, does anyone know how much Light rail or Street car operators make?

 

I was just on the CATS website and there's no mention of it.

I know right!?! I would drive the crap out of that train. ALL ABOARD!?!

[Matthew.Brendan]

Few years ago there was an operator who was clearly from NJ/NY and would call out all the stations, "stand clear of the closing doors!", gave information on bus transfers at CTC, etc. it was so nice.

[videtur quam contuor]

Last time I rode for fun with an out of town visitor we went full length to UNCC and during wait time I spoke with the operator and he was from San Francisco and had worked their transit units. He did not say which units they were, bus, cable car, electric bus (overhead line), BART or other. There is a rest room at the UNCC station (for CATS staff only).

[kermit]

Axigenda has a piece on Silver Line routing which features this illuminating input from CATS:

Quote

The other side: A spokeswoman for CATS stopped responding to Axios’ request for an interview with CEO John Lewis despite repeated attempts.

I really try hard to give Lewis the benefit of the doubt, but he (and his office) makes it so difficult. I am sure it would not have been difficult to hit reply on the email and say “sorry, JL is not available this week.”

(there is nothing new in the article, just the standard development vs ridership rehash)

https://charlotte.axios.com/274105/new-light-rail-plan-would-drive-development-but-what-about-moving-people/

[off topic, did Axios spend millions to acquire the Agenda just to end up publishing fewer articles? Axios feels (to me) much less visible and prominent than the Agenda did]

Edited September 27, 2021 by kermit

[SouthEndCLT811]

Could have been a "human resource acquisition" since Ted was able to find success in monetizing the Agenda and Axios has since rolled out local news in tons of markets since the merger.  We did that where I used to work , acquired a small company and cut back on their independent products but really the benefit was their dev team that was quick on firmware development which were then utilized across the broader portfolio of products.

[TGIBridays]

DOLLAR FIGURES FOR THE SILVER LINE ARE SLOWLY COMING INTO FOCUS (UNC Urban Institute)

Sad to read that the tunneling option is off the table, though I expected as much. Maybe by the time my 3 year old is about to finish high school, we'll be able to use the silver line to go into Uptown for a Hornets game or something...

Edited September 27, 2021 by TGIBridays