CATS Long Term Transit Plan - Silver, Red Lines

[tozmervo]

They haven't made an official announcement (so may be in testing), but the blue line does show up on CATS Pass real time now.

[RANYC]

22 minutes ago, tozmervo said:

They haven't made an official announcement (so may be in testing), but the blue line does show up on CATS Pass real time now.

I've ridden the Gold Line about 10 times in the past week because of that App.  A couple snafus with trains not showing up because of "mechanical issues," but all in all, it's worked out pretty nicely.  Used it today, and also used it to attend the Blackstar David Bowie Tribute concert last Friday night.

What I've discovered is that while headways are important, reliability has been much more important to me.  I can plan if I'm informed well in advance that headways are now 30 min instead of 20 min.

It's not knowing what's going on that really frustrates me.

An improvement in the app would be to communicate hiccups right in the app instead of having to go and search for what's wrong on twitter.   Once in the app, I can adjust settings to push through notifications of issues right onto my phone screen. 

Edited September 19, 2022 by RANYC

[Reverie39]

Baby steps! This is great. Rome wasn't built in a day.

[kermit]

I have already found this to be both useful and reliable twice since @tozmervo 's post yesterday!

Edited September 20, 2022 by kermit

[tozmervo]

21 hours ago, RANYC said:

An improvement in the app would be to communicate hiccups right in the app instead of having to go and search for what's wrong on twitter.   Once in the app, I can adjust settings to push through notifications of issues right onto my phone screen. 

Suppooosedly they are working on implementing an app feature that will cross out trips if they aren't running for some reason (primarily staffing). Having said that, their "rider alert" system has never seemed to work very well, especially for unplanned problems. 

[kermit]

Remind me again why we should go easy on CATS because its tough times… (refers to the Kyiv metro)

 

Edited September 20, 2022 by kermit

[tozmervo]

On 8/30/2022 at 2:42 PM, kermit said:

I do understand that the current labor market is very difficult, but to what extent is the current hiring crises beyond CATS's control? Other public agencies are able to maintain sufficient staff to maintain basic service levels. It sounds like there are enough CMPD officers. Waste Management (a private contractor, but...) still manages to pick up trash and recycling on schedule. Charlotte water still has crews out repairing leaks. Hospitals (also private but...) still appear to be well staffed. CMS, while struggling to hire teachers, has not had to say "we are cutting school days from 5 to 3 per week". 

I am genuinely curious, what makes it harder for transit agencies to hire than other public agencies? Or are staff shortages just more visible in transit?

(Honestly if a CATS staffer approached me on a train one day and asked "you want to drive this thing?" I would probably say yes)

Noted in today's Ledger

[kermit]

21 hours ago, kermit said:

I have already found this to be both useful and reliable twice since @tozmervo 's post yesterday!

I may have spoken too soon on reliability. Neither of the two trains I have seen today appeared on the tracker (but others, including 2 that appear to be in the South service yard, do show up.)

Edited September 21, 2022 by kermit

[15895]

1 hour ago, kermit said:

I may have spoken too soon on reliability. Neither of the two trains I have seen today appeared on the tracker (but others, including 2 that appear to be in the South service yard) do show up.)

I don't understand why it's so hard to have a reliable GPS tracking system???

[TGIBridays]

2 hours ago, kermit said:

I may have spoken too soon on reliability. Neither of the two trains I have seen today appeared on the tracker (but others, including 2 that appear to be in the South service yard, do show up.)

Maybe that's why they haven't officially announced it yet. Some trains haven't been fully equipped. 

[tozmervo]

CATS has rolled out their fare capping program. This doesn't likely effect anyone that reads UP, but it's a huge deal for folks that are reliant on transit and can't otherwise afford the up-front cost of a monthly pass. It makes sure they aren't penalized for not having $88 to spend on the first of the month. 

CATS Launches a Seamless Savings Option with Fare Capping (charlottenc.gov)

[kermit]

Lets celebrate CATS’ optimism. Today’s update to CATS pass features a filter for Commuter Rail tracking (and bikeshare!). Tracking for the Blue Line was still not working   this morning.

Commuter Rail teasing aside, the filters are a nice addition to the app and the fare capping is fantastic!

[from a rhetorical perspective I am not sure Commuter Rail is still a useful label in a world of work from home, and I think CATS (and all transit systems) would be better off eliminating any distinctions between types of rail transport, all riders really need to know of the destination and that their pass will work)]
 

Edited September 22, 2022 by kermit

[Reverie39]

I also agree with combining metro card-accessible services into a single category + showing them together on system maps. That means Gold+Blue lines on current maps, along with future lines too. 

I know Boston goes so far as to include its Silver Line in T maps - which is entirely a bus route that goes underground sometimes. Admittedly I was rather confused when I rode it this past summer, but I also would probably have never even been aware of the option to take it if it wasn't on those maps of the T.

[Nathan2]

On 9/21/2022 at 1:24 PM, tozmervo said:

CATS has rolled out their fare capping program. This doesn't likely effect anyone that reads UP, but it's a huge deal for folks that are reliant on transit and can't otherwise afford the up-front cost of a monthly pass. It makes sure they aren't penalized for not having $88 to spend on the first of the month. 

CATS Launches a Seamless Savings Option with Fare Capping (charlottenc.gov)

From what I understand fare capping only works for those that purchase tickets in the cats app and does not count towards people who purchase physical tickets or pay with cash. Cash users make up the majority of riders. 

[tozmervo]

57 minutes ago, Nathan2 said:

From what I understand fare capping only works for those that purchase tickets in the cats app and does not count towards people who purchase physical tickets or pay with cash. Cash users make up the majority of riders. 

That's correct, the app provides the technological solution the problem. Previously there wasn't a way for them to track the amount of tickets a user bought. CATS has linked to a federal program set up to help users get smart phones w/ plans if they don't have them, and users can add cash to their "wallet" via CATS customer service. I could easily see them eventually setting up automated machines that will take cash and add it to your account, too.

It's also a good incentive to reduce the amount of cash handling on buses, which slows down operations substantially. 

[kermit]

[SpiritOf76]

On 9/22/2022 at 10:09 PM, kermit said:

Then get rid of the bus depot 

[videtur quam contuor]

This data has been discussed here prior but it applies to public transport as well as private. Charlotte is the least grid-like, most disordered city in the world studied  by this research. Even to ancient cities grown from walking paths we are astoundingly difficult to organize. I myself recall that on arrival I discovered after six months of wandering here, that no element of order was available to assist in recalling how to reach one location to another. Memory of prior experience was the only way. There is no short cut from one place to another as there is no straight course, unless one goes from one location on Tryon to another. Every route is a "short cut". All the rest is personal experience and preference and the preference of one person is different, perhaps no better, than the preference of another. How to integrate a public transportation system in this collection of random interstices is more than my feeble mind can consider.

 

https://geoffboeing.com/2019/09/urban-street-network-orientation/

[SouthEndCLT811]

22 minutes ago, tarhoosier said:

This data has been discussed here prior but it applies to public transport as well as private. Charlotte is the least grid-like, most disordered city in the world studied  by this research. Even to ancient cities grown from walking paths we are astoundingly difficult to organize. I myself recall that on arrival I discovered after six months of wandering here, that no element of order was available to assist in recalling how to reach one location to another. Memory of prior experience was the only way. There is no short cut from one place to another as there is no straight course, unless one goes from one location on Tryon to another. Every route is a "short cut". All the rest is personal experience and preference and the preference of one person is different, perhaps no better, than the preference of another. How to integrate a public transportation system in this collection of random interstices is more than my feeble mind can consider.

 

https://geoffboeing.com/2019/09/urban-street-network-orientation/

Definitely feel this in the Sedgefield/Colonial Village area where a close friend lives 0.35 miles from our house "as the crow flies" but actual drivable/walkable routes on Google Maps to their home is 1.9 miles.  And depending the day/scooter availability we may consider walking 35-40 min to go 2 miles to visit.  But more times then not we hop in the car.  The %'s would probably flip if we had a route that was closer to the actual distance

[Windsurfer]

9 hours ago, tarhoosier said:

This data has been discussed here prior but it applies to public transport as well as private. Charlotte is the least grid-like, most disordered city in the world studied  by this research. Even to ancient cities grown from walking paths we are astoundingly difficult to organize. I myself recall that on arrival I discovered after six months of wandering here, that no element of order was available to assist in recalling how to reach one location to another. Memory of prior experience was the only way. There is no short cut from one place to another as there is no straight course, unless one goes from one location on Tryon to another. Every route is a "short cut". All the rest is personal experience and preference and the preference of one person is different, perhaps no better, than the preference of another. How to integrate a public transportation system in this collection of random interstices is more than my feeble mind can consider.

 

https://geoffboeing.com/2019/09/urban-street-network-orientation/

Can I propose on thing that might upset a few inhabitants of this planet: Let's not combine, alter, or move uptown streets any more than we have to from the little grid that we still have. We compromised Mint Street for the stadium, we compromised the streets that go around our coliseum, and then, lately there's been discussion of altering the area of North Tryon, College and Belk freeway for a soccer stadium. 

[kermit]

Wrong thread, my bad

Edited September 27, 2022 by kermit

[kayman]

On 9/26/2022 at 9:26 AM, tarhoosier said:

This data has been discussed here prior but it applies to public transport as well as private. Charlotte is the least grid-like, most disordered city in the world studied  by this research. Even to ancient cities grown from walking paths we are astoundingly difficult to organize. I myself recall that on arrival I discovered after six months of wandering here, that no element of order was available to assist in recalling how to reach one location to another. Memory of prior experience was the only way. There is no short cut from one place to another as there is no straight course, unless one goes from one location on Tryon to another. Every route is a "short cut". All the rest is personal experience and preference and the preference of one person is different, perhaps no better, than the preference of another. How to integrate a public transportation system in this collection of random interstices is more than my feeble mind can consider.

 

https://geoffboeing.com/2019/09/urban-street-network-orientation/

Charlotte is a series of concentric circles around the urban core.  Honestly, it is annoying for local trips off the circular routes.  However it's nearly impossible to get lost in Charlotte though due the circles. 

Edited September 27, 2022 by kayman

[Reverie39]

18 hours ago, Windsurfer said:

Can I propose on thing that might upset a few inhabitants of this planet: Let's not combine, alter, or move uptown streets any more than we have to from the little grid that we still have. We compromised Mint Street for the stadium, we compromised the streets that go around our coliseum, and then, lately there's been discussion of altering the area of North Tryon, College and Belk freeway for a soccer stadium. 

Perhaps we can cap the freeway with a soccer stadium

[JRCLT]

Perhaps we can cap the freeway with a soccer stadium

Where has a soccer stadium been proposed? I’ve been hearing this joke, but haven’t seen any proposals for it anywhere?

[kayman]

You can sit and watch the CATS MTC meeting that is streamed live on YouTube right now: 

 

Edited September 28, 2022 by kayman