CATS Long Term Transit Plan - Silver, Red Lines

[plaza-midwood]

Yeah, I'm sure that's what I'm talking about. Looks like there are some huge concrete structures going up..assumed it had to do with the rail lines but I guess not necessarily.

That's a pretty key location (check out the straight-shot of uptown) for something that could essentially be located anywhere in the county. Weird.

Anyway, thanks for the info.

[tozmervo]

The slideshow [pdf] from the latest round of BLE meetings is up at the CATS website. One notable design change is the movement of the 27th street station. It has drifted south to 25th street. I'm a little concerned at how close Parkwood Station (which used to be at 16th) and now 25th Street Station are, especially since their service areas are "single loaded" because of the rail yards. They are also beginning to layout the new maintenance facility between those two stations where the truck loading area is now.

[uptownliving]

I thought I read somewhere they were going to move the Parkwood station back to 16th St.

[Spartan]

That station keeps going back and forth from Parkwood to 16th. Right now its back at Parkwood from what I'm hearing... but it seems like that info changes from day to day.

[mallguy]

Interesting letter in this month's Trains magazine about airport connectivity, pointing out that the Norfolk Southern tracks run right by the airport but the passenger train station is uptown, a few miles away, as we know. Once the north line commuter trains are running, perhaps some of them could just dash over to the airport and have a quick stop there as well, along with Amtrak trains?

[southslider]

The new "terminus" station Uptown (Gateway Station) for the North (now Red) line and Amtrak trains is designed so as to not preclude future extension of service someday to the West. The Airport is comparable to Derita in distance from Uptown.

And trains don't necessarily have to continue west of the Airport to Gaston County. From the Airport, the line could turn south on the existing NS tracks, have another station at the Tyvola Coliseum area, then end at Tyvola (at South Blvd.) for a direct transfer station on LYNX outside Uptown, and where there is ample parking going unused. Additional stations could be built at West Boulvard near Boulevard Homes and Bryan Park, the latter depending more so on redevelopment. Maybe then too, the commuter-rail project would have enough riders to warrant Federal funding, especially after rules change with a new reauthorization.

But considering Jerry Orr won't even let CATS build a Sprinter shelter akin to the new shiny ones on the Brevard side of CTC, he'd likely fight CATS pulling up to his front door or building an attractive people-mover to connect with a commuter train, even though Norfolk Southern is moving its intermodal yard to right between his new and existing runways.

Edited October 3, 2009 by southslider

[rooster8]

Why did they change the designation oft he north corridor to red?

[staffer]

Interesting letter in this month's Trains magazine about airport connectivity, pointing out that the Norfolk Southern tracks run right by the airport but the passenger train station is uptown, a few miles away, as we know. Once the north line commuter trains are running, perhaps some of them could just dash over to the airport and have a quick stop there as well, along with Amtrak trains?

the preliminary design for SE high speed rail that came out around 2004 called for the Charlotte to Washington service to start with a station at Charlotte Douglas airport. I will dig out the link. Not sure if that is still on the radar.

[tozmervo]

Why did they change the designation oft he north corridor to red?

One of the north meck mayors requested it at an MTC meeting. I don't recall there being a specific reason. Hypothetically, I guess you could tie it into Davidson College branding - UNCC has requested that the blue line be renamed the green line for that reason.

I do remember that CATS arguing that Red was the branding color for the express buses, but the mayors shot that reasoning down.

[atlrvr]

I've seen maps indicating an High-Speed AMTRAK station at the airport, and Jerry Orr has voiced his support.....it would be connected by a people mover some point the future.

I think using those track for High-Speed rail, and a commuter train out to Gastonia would be ideal, and would provide regular service to downtown. I actually prefer it over the streetcar, assuming that intervals were less than 1 hour. I believe that is the way it works from Newark Airport to Penn Station in Manhattan. You buy a ticket and can take whatever train comes first, AMTRAK or NJ Rail.

A commuter line branch off before the aiport serving the coloseum area with a station (and circulator bus) and another at the current blue line terminus and then onward to SC would also work well.

[Spartan]

UNCC has requested that the blue line be renamed the green line for that reason.

Or more accurately, the line's designation would change from blue to green on the north side of uptown, presumably at CTC Station.

[southslider]

Since it will be a single ride from 485 to 485, I think changing colors at presumably CTC will only confuse patrons riding through Uptown.

[dubone]

UNCC did request that their section be Green, but since the South corridor was already whole hog on the blue color so I guess they looked at a color changing. But frankly, neither makes sense. The line goes past multiple professional teams, yet there was never an idea to go with their branding colors, although the current blue is a little similar to the Panther's blue.

But really, UNCC lost out on their chance for this type of control of the original line by shunning CATS for all those early years. I am very happy they have welcomed the line onto their campus in more recent planning, but really, it is too late to change the color of the line.

They ought to put some effort into making their station nice versus just the standard station design.

As for the change of color for the North line to Red, fine... who cares... how about figuring out how to get the thing funded. Red will be a better color, though. Purple seemed like an odd choice.

[peaceloveunderstanding]

Well, changing the color of the line at an arbitrary point would be very Charlotte.

[cltbwimob]

Well, changing the color of the line at an arbitrary point would be very Charlotte.

Never were more truthful words spoken.

[southslider]

Well originally, the green line was supposed to be the streetcar, intersecting the blue line at CTC. But now if blue changes to green at CTC on the LYNX, maybe the streetcar can change there from green to blue. Then, it could be just as confusing in classic Charlotte fashion as Providence-Providence-Queens-Queens.

[uptownliving]

Southslider...that idea makes total sense in Charlotte terms....So the Green line would originate at Eastland Mall as the Streetcar...go by CPCC (Green colors) and then change modes and direction at the CTC and head up to UNCC.

The Blue line would start at South and 485..and change direction and modes at CTC to the Streetcar and head out past JC Smith (Blue Colors).

Kings and Kings and Queens and Queens

Blue and Blue and Green and Green

:-)

[dubone]

http://charmeck.org/NR/rdonlyres/eiwx5h3ub...2l2bsww5d/1.pdf

Not sure where to put this, but the city council will see the CRISP summary on Monday. It lists out changes to the rail system in the system, and who is responsible, including the transit rail lines.

It is great to see that #1 is the grade separation of CSX and NS crossing near Seaboard St, and closure of the crossings at 9th and 10th and possible relocation of ADM Mill. This will "significantly" reduce horn blowing, which is great for the thousands of residents nearby.

It also lists out a number of mainline changes that are for the BLE, but will be done by other parties. Interesting that that 1.33BB pricetag could be higher if they had to make those changes on the BLE budget.

[dubone]

http://charmeck.org/NR/rdonlyres/ezmeri2yw...sxgdmo37c/3.pdf

Looks like the city and CATS will officially request Gov Perdue to the support the North Commuter Line (Red Line) as the second choice for stimulus funds after the Yadkin bridge. I guess we'll see how that goes.

[tozmervo]

I didn't know about the proposed extension of MLK under the tracks. Would that connect to Cedar St at Greenleaf Ave, or follow the old 3rd Street footprint?

I also didn't realize during the color discussion that the north corridor has officially been changed to the red line. All the references on the website have been changed from purple to red. I thought it was still just "proposed" - I guess MTC signed off on the change.

As the CR system is built out, I wonder if referring to the lines by county might not serve CATS better in the future. IE, the "Iredell Line," the "Gaston Line" etc. That way all the CR is branded red AND the surrounding counties get included in the system by name. CR lines in other cities don't usually get a color designation like forms of intracity transit.

Edited October 11, 2009 by tozmervo

[Spartan]

The MLK extension would go between the Panthers practice fields and the JWU campus. There is currently a sidewalk/path in this area. If you look on Google Maps, there is a line that says "W 3rd St" that connects to Cedar St that would be the approximate alignment.

[jednc]

http://charmeck.org/NR/rdonlyres/ezmeri2yw...sxgdmo37c/3.pdf

Looks like the city and CATS will officially request Gov Perdue to the support the North Commuter Line (Red Line) as the second choice for stimulus funds after the Yadkin bridge. I guess we'll see how that goes.

Living in North Meck I'm pretty happy to hear this.

[New Name]

Is there any reason the Yadkin River bridge wouldn't get funded (but the funds would still be available)?

[InitialD]

Interestingly, the entire streetcar line or the North commuter rail system could be built for the same price as this single bridge project.

[cltbwimob]

I also didn't realize during the color discussion that the north corridor has officially been changed to the red line. All the references on the website have been changed from purple to red. I thought it was still just "proposed" - I guess MTC signed off on the change.

As the CR system is built out, I wonder if referring to the lines by county might not serve CATS better in the future. IE, the "Iredell Line," the "Gaston Line" etc. That way all the CR is branded red AND the surrounding counties get included in the system by name. CR lines in other cities don't usually get a color designation like forms of intracity transit.

I have thought about that myself. The MBTA in Boston does not have colored CR lines, but rather, the lines are named for the places they serve. The lines are all purple on system maps. I think just having a single color to denote all rail lines on system maps would be much better, especially if an actual regional rail system develops in the future.

Edited October 14, 2009 by cltbwimob