CATS Long Term Transit Plan - Silver, Red Lines

[49er]

I agree. It's hard to say this trolley proposal makes sense when you have the now scrapped silver line that could have carried upwards of 20,000 riders a day from Western Union County/Matthews/Mint Hill. The newest ULI trolley proposal to the east/southeast is pretty, but it won't be able to carry any real passenger volume or take many cars off the streets. It has always been my understanding that the CSX line that parallels Monroe Rd through Matthews and beyond is too constrained as far as ROW goes.

[dubone]

It is a misnomer that the small capacity trolley's will be used on these streetcar lines in the long term. It was purely an interim solution to allow delay of vehicle selection. Real modern streetcars hold more passengers than buses, and are much more comfortable to ride.

Regardless, CATS clearly no longer considers it a priority to serve every corridor that it has been promising the community for decades. They obviously screwed up their revenue projections and cost projections, and now want to act like the Red and Blue lines are the only lines worth moving along. Meanwhile the Red Line can't hope for federal funds, but the other lines could potentially earn fed dollars, or tweaked or combined lines like the Airport-SE corridor potentially.

[southslider]

Until Congress passes a Transportation Reauthorization, it's pointless to re-visit the System Plan. Charlotte will be fortunate enough to actually obtain a FFGA by December 2012 from the current Administration, and then hopefully, see it honored through project completion.

The approaching "fiscal cliff" will likely have extreme implications for the New Starts program, if it will even still exist. Sort of makes it hard to plan for 20 years from now, let alone 5 years from now, when the entire culture of government spending is so uncertain.

Edited June 25, 2012 by southslider

[Norm2]

Looks like the WHOLE ENTIRE capital plan was scrapped.

[HopHead]

^How unbelievable. You go from nearly $1Billion to ~$790mill to ~$650 to absolutely nothing. To me that's the most frustrating. You won't see anything in 2013 either since it's an election year.

[ah59396]

Thank Mayor Foxx. He thought he could veto his way towards Walton's whole plan even after I feel the council worked together to find at least an agreeable middle ground. Instead, he gave the two Republicans on the council a chance to jump in and do what they were hoping would happen, not have a capital plan at all. Huge blunder by our Mayor in my opinion, especially with the election year as Dbull75 mentioned. Not too many ways he can spin that one.

[southslider]

In addition to Foxx, I also blame the five members of Council who were so stubborn as to not help the Barnes-led, compromised plan override the Mayor's veto. All it would have taken is one more vote.

Could have been Kinsey, who is usually the other swing vote, along with Barnes, on many fiscal issues. Plus, after Barnes, Kinsey's district would have seen the next largest amount of infrastructure under the compromised plan, since her district spans both the Innovation and Northeast Corridors, as well as Bojangles/Ovens.

Could have been Autry, whose district lacks any larger-CIP segment of streetcar, and whose district would see the very next largest amount of investment after Barnes and Kinsey, due to all of major investment along Independence Blvd. still within the compromised plan.

Could have been Mayfield, who would still see investment by the Airport and Whitehall.

Could have been Mitchell, who is an affordable housing champion, which only had a slight cut.

Could have been Howard, who is usually a consensus-builder. However, Howard was the one who sadly introduced entirely scrapping the capital plan.

Worst of all, the County gave the City a "gift" in allowing a partial tax increase at this point in time to seem like "no increase." The delay until 2014 will now force a real tax increase down the road, felt by every taxpayer, even for a capital plan lacking streetcar. Without a doubt, this vote was the biggest missed opportunity ever lost by Charlotte's City Council.

[Norm2]

Thank Mayor Foxx. He thought he could veto his way towards Walton's whole plan even after I feel the council worked together to find at least an agreeable middle ground. Instead, he gave the two Republicans on the council a chance to jump in and do what they were hoping would happen, not have a capital plan at all. Huge blunder by our Mayor in my opinion, especially with the election year as Dbull75 mentioned. Not too many ways he can spin that one.

I don't blame the mayor. He played his card and I don't think he anticipated on the whole entire capital plan getting scrapped. I don't think any of us anticipated that.

[ah59396]

I don't blame the mayor. He played his card and I don't think he anticipated on the whole entire capital plan getting scrapped. I don't think any of us anticipated that.

Then I don't understand his mind-set. He had a plan in front of him that still maintained the bulk of the projects less the Streetcar. Considering this same guy during his campaign stated he wouldn't raise taxes for the streetcar, I thought it was a no-brainer for him to compromise. City council came back with two budgets that I was supportive of, both of which were relatively bipartisan (at least, as bipartisan as we will probably get).

I've been a supporter of Mayor Foxx but he dropped the ball big time here. It's part of his job to anticipate how the council is going to react to a veto, that's politics. Hes got to know who is in his corner before he goes out on a limb. I do agree with Southsider however in also laying blame on Howard. What in the devil was he thinking scrapping the whole plan?? We missed a huge opportunity here.

[Norm2]

Then I don't understand his mind-set. He had a plan in front of him that still maintained the bulk of the projects less the Streetcar. Considering this same guy during his campaign stated he wouldn't raise taxes for the streetcar, I thought it was a no-brainer for him to compromise. City council came back with two budgets that I was supportive of, both of which were relatively bipartisan (at least, as bipartisan as we will probably get).

I've been a supporter of Mayor Foxx but he dropped the ball big time here. It's part of his job to anticipate how the council is going to react to a veto, that's politics. Hes got to know who is in his corner before he goes out on a limb. I do agree with Southsider however in also laying blame on Howard. What in the devil was he thinking scrapping the whole plan?? We missed a huge opportunity here.

Howard was crazy for bringing up the idea for scrapping the whole plan. he found the easy way out and everyone jumped off of the ship with him. The easy way out is not always the right answer.

[LKN704]

Not to sabatoge this thread, and I didn't see this posted anywhere, but as CATS evolves over time, could we see a possibility of a Smart Card/Smart Ticket system in place? Similar to the Charlie Ticket in Boston or the Breeze Card in Atlanta.

[kermit]

More on Atlanta's no vote and the future of transit funding in Charlotte:

“Our needs aren’t going away, but revenue is,” says Harold Cogdell, chair of the Metropolitan Transit Commission, the nine-member body that presides over planning and spending strategies. “That’s a conversation we as a region have to have.”

Such a conversation, when it arrives, dovetails with the $926 million city-backed proposal to extend the streetcar line while improving bridges, sidewalks and roads and investing in designated business hubs. It fell apart in June, felled by disagreements over the streetcar and controversy over — wait for it — higher taxes.

http://www.bizjourna...-08-02&page=all

Edited August 2, 2012 by kermit

[dubone]

Not to sabatoge this thread, and I didn't see this posted anywhere, but as CATS evolves over time, could we see a possibility of a Smart Card/Smart Ticket system in place? Similar to the Charlie Ticket in Boston or the Breeze Card in Atlanta.

I do wish they would allow for 10-ride passes to be stamped for use on the Lynx. It is a pain to have to do the ticket purchase process when you have a bus pass in your wallet already. (I ride enough for a 10-pass but not enough for a monthly pass). A card like metrocard would be useful, so I suppose they'll eventually do it when there is more to our system.

We are really in an odd situation with our original transit plan. It has virtually fallen apart. The city obviously failed to move the streetcar extension forward (we would have had a real starter line from the West End to Elizabeth instead of a tiny Arena to Presby gimmick) and CATS who came up with the line in the first place is pretty well ignoring it as a viable priority in their plans. But CATS's next priority after the BLE (thankfully seeming to move forward) is the Red Line, but it is seeming less and less viable with the need to go back to the drawing board and study feasibility with higher freight traffic. The SouthEast line was scrapped for a concept of a streetcar, but again, CATS seems indifferent to the idea.

It is seeming more and more like we will only have the Blue Line and the tiny starter streetcar line for rail transit in this city for a decade.

As long as the economy grows (unlikely, as it is seeming like we are in a decade of economic doldrums), it is conceivable that things could kickstart again, but I find myself more and more skeptical that the current CATS leadership is interested in pushing it anymore.

[kermit]

^ I had thought today that a smartcard-based fare integration between bike share and CATS would be awfully handy. That said, I have no idea how such an arrangement would (or could) work in terms of revenue sharing and the pricing model for bikeshare.

I am also demoralized about long term transit improvements. It seems likely we will be stuck with the streetcar stub and blue line (and BLE) for the remainder of the decade. I do have some hope that continued resdential development along the light rail (and streetcar route through inner-Elizabeth) and the arrival of Gateway station (with five trains per day to Raleigh) will generate much greater interest in transit expansion in the next decade. Zoning changes (reducing minimum parking requirements) would also make TOD much more attractive to developers -- this could be done at virtually no cost to the city (but substantial risk to developers)

I am also holding out hope (more of a fantasy really) that we will be able to adopt more cost-effective (and creative) means of building transit. Lowering construction costs (which really are outrageous) and building efficient (and fast) rail transit in existing rail and street right of ways would make expansion much much easier. It is obscene that it will take 3-4 years of construction to build the BLE. We have LOTS we could learn from Spanish transit construction techniques (or this shift would be even easier if we could just allow foreign firms to bid on construction contracts).

Cheap transit expansion opportunities (predicated on continued TOD and ridership growth along the blue line) might include commuter rail to Gastonia and Mt Holly via the mostly abandoned (and state owned) P&N route, commuter rail to Rock Hill (and a few trains extended to Columbia) in conjunction with NS capacity increases on their tracks for their new intermodal yard, commuter rail to Concord / Salisbury on existing (and soon to be improved tracks). Finally, extending the streetcar piecemeal as repaving schedule and developer 'sponsorship' appears (like with the current stub). I think a new focus on small improvements rather than 'megatransit' might yield significant benefits.

Edited August 10, 2012 by kermit

[tozmervo]

CATS on it's ad revenue: "you could have been REALLY screwed on the fare increase"

http://www.bizjourna...ats-riders.html

Edited August 13, 2012 by tozmervo

[kermit]

It appears that Carolyn Flowers is a finalist for the Jacksonville Transportation Authority director posistion. http://jacksonville.com/news/florida/2012-08-30/story/jta-has-three-out-state-finalists-executive-director-job

While its entirely likely I am just being paranoid, I really hope her job search does not presage bad news for the BLE. (I expect the FTA will have big existential news about BLE funding sometime in October)

[dubone]

To be honest, she never seemed all that engaged for the long haul. I am especially annoyed about the total disregard for the streetcar lines.

I think the BLE, though, is well enough along to be continuing as expected. The only possible hiccup is that the city's capital plan failed, which means that it will not have the coordinated infrastructure in place for bike/ped paths and streetscape and otherwise to help spur development along the path. That said, the original Blue Line has shown ridership levels well enough to not rely as much on growth hopes to meet projections.

[Urbanity]

It appears that Carolyn Flowers is a finalist for the Jacksonville Transportation Authority director posistion. http://jacksonville....ve-director-job

While its entirely likely I am just being paranoid, I really hope her job search does not presage bad news for the BLE. (I expect the FTA will have big existential news about BLE funding sometime in October)

Apparently not - since according to CBJ reporting CATS said she didn't even apply for the position let alone interview. Seems the consulting firm included her (and two others) as people in the industry worth pursuing for the job.

As stated in the article:

"CATS director of marketing and communications, confirms Flowers is among the three top choices Krauthamer & Associates has forwarded to the Jacksonville agency. But he says she wasn’t among the 90 candidates who applied for the post and she hasn’t interviewed for it.

Edited August 31, 2012 by Urbanity

[kermit]

^ That makes sense, the reporting in the original article did not inspire a great deal of confidence:

All three [meaning Flowers and the two other finalists] applied Wednesday and were not among the 90 people who applied before this week.

[Sabaidee]

http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2012/09/12/charlotte-residents-prefer-transit.html

This is interesting, Charlotteans prefer more transit options and are willing to pay for it. Too bad the streetcar extension failed.

[southslider]

^I'd rather wait less than 10 minutes for a bus than 15 minutes for a streetcar. More frequent and reliable service would provide more transit options.

[dubone]

But a streetcar is more likely to support densification of a neighborhood, which in turn brings more potential riders and you're back to the 10 minutes waiting for a streetcar.

I would like to see work done to better integrate GPS of the buses with the traffic lights so that buses get mostly green lights and stay on time. The same would benefit streetcars, but would overall be better and more efficient for all of the bus routes across the city.

[Urbanity]

I would like to see work done to better integrate GPS of the buses with the traffic lights so that buses get mostly green lights and stay on time.

I agree with this and the use of GPS so that bus stops could display expected next bus.

The CATS schedules are a huge mess (at least the #11) and there seems to be no rhyme or reason on many days between what is on the site vs the app (and - I found out once that there was a discrepancy) and Google maps transit.

If the city wants more people to commute via mass transit it has to have dependable schedules.

[southslider]

But a streetcar is more likely to support densification of a neighborhood, which in turn brings more potential riders and you're back to the 10 minutes waiting for a streetcar.

Then let development pay for streetcar-- via TIF, MSD, etc. Because if CATS pays for streetcar, this daily #9 bus rider risks waiting more than 10 minutes for an already overcrowded bus.

Implementing "enhanced bus" would be much more cost-effective. Such strategy could still provide some permanence of infrastructure (quality shelters with next bus technology) and capacity (articulated vehicles). That's a project CATS could afford to build for a more dense, less motorized Charlotte, yet also benefit more users.

Right now, there are multiple vacant lots in Grubb's Elizabeth Vilage. If such a market-ripe area can't support a TIF to help finance even the next piece, then don't bother asking other areas to increase their taxes.

Ultimately, it is political suicide to raise City-wide taxes for a very localized gain in development. If Ballantyne can divert its incremental tax base from City coffers to pay off I-485-related improvements, then so can streetcar.

[ScottCLT]

I also agree...I live in SouthEnd and drive down East quite often, almost daily. I really don't think the traffic is that bad. At lunch, or after work, there just aren't enough cars to cause a delay to gripe about. It's not a big deal to me - I prefer the current configuration over the prior one.