CATS Long Term Transit Plan - Silver, Red Lines

[kermit]

The Wall Street Journal is reporting that an increase in the federal gas tax is being considered as part of the fiscal cliff negotiations in DC. Should this happen the largest obstacle for the passage of a new transportation bill (revenue) would be reduced or removed. I am no political expert but I believe that a new transportation bill is the best (and perhaps only) hope for increased federal support of transit -- an event that -might- create a mechanism for partial federal funding of the red line and streetcar expansion.

http://online.wsj.co..._LEFTTopStories

Edited November 23, 2012 by kermit

[Urbanity]

Not certain if this is new or not, but the CBJ has today's City Council agenda. Included is the Charlotte legislative agenda.

Two key points of interest:

• Allow 60 ft length public transportation vehicles (which I assume is articulated buses)
  
• Allow local governments to utilize special bond financing for transportation projects (could this be used for streetcar?)
  

They also mention FY14 state funding for the BLE and in unrelated transportation news they talk of lobbying for FY14 funding for the new Federal Courthouse.

http://charmeck.org/city/charlotte/CityClerk/CouncilRelated/Documents/11.26.12%20Agenda%20with%20Attachments.pdf

[dubone]

That is all good news. The gas tax increase is necessary to be revenue neutral during increases in the efficiency of vehicles. It is a good thing for society to increase the portion of the gas expenditures that support the infrastructure, and slowly it reaches a point where VMT growth slows. Gas taxes are designed to be the tool by which transportation infrastructure is supported by transportation users, so a) it needs to increase as efficiency increases and b) if we can get people to drive less, our society saves a lot of money on infrastructure needs/maintenance.

[kermit]

There is an interesting (and vague) article in this mornings CBJ discussing the future of transit funding in Charlotte. The article suggests that the streetcar tram is unlikely to get funded in the current CIP but that failure "might not matter"  since:

 

The Charlotte Chamber, civic leaders from a range of institutions, elected officials and city staffers eager to accelerate work on the streetcar and other transit projects have begun informal discussions on how to fund and formulate a more comprehensive approach.

 

Early next year, business and political leaders are likely to unveil a campaign that aims to study ways to pay for the 25-mile commuter rail line between uptown and southern Iredell County, the Independence Boulevard rapid bus corridor, a suggested streetcar along Monroe Road, a line to the airport and, perhaps, the streetcar if it isn’t approved in the CIP.

 

Basically the search has begun for new dedicated transist funding beyond the 1/2 cent we currently pay. The article also documents [<-- the editor is not working properly. That phrase apears as "d o c u m e n t s" in the edit window] some of the current frustration with the transit funding process by noting that Curt Walton refers to the 2030 plan as the "2080 plan" and that Mayor Foxx acknowledges that passing multiple bond referrenda for the CIP will very very difficult given the divided council.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/print-edition/2012/11/30/a-new-path-for-transit.html?ana=&page=all

Edited November 30, 2012 by kermit

[dubone]

doSPRITEents

 

 

I very much want the core section of the tramway to be funded, but I do like the idea that it move forward in a separate long term strategy planning, but not hold back the 5y capital investment plan that the city needs more than the tram.  

 

This is good news that we have forward thinkers still running our city.  Hopefully Governor Patty McCheese will help us with our efforts.

[Norm2]

Patty McCheese LOL! 

[15895]

I wonder if they'd revisit other transit plans to include Ballantyne. It would be great to have a link to Ballantyne (and Carolina Place).

People could live in SouthEnd, Plaza, NoDa, Huntersville, Davidson, University and not need a car to commute to Ballantyne for work. (Redline, Blue line, the "tram"

Carolina Place Mall and Lynx ridership would also benefit with a Lynx Carolina Place I would think. I would choose Carolina Place more often over South park if it were connected by rail. Though I doubt SP would lose much business because the 2 malls serve different purposes.

Overall, I think with the Red Line, Current 20 mile Blue line, and the " Lynx green line Tram", adding a Ballantyne/Carolina Place blue line extension would really, really make Mecklenburg County very transit friendly. South Park would be fine being served by Regular CATS buses I think.

[RVA2CLT]

I wonder if they'd revisit other transit plans to include Ballantyne. It would be great to have a link to Ballantyne (and Carolina Place).

People could live in SouthEnd, Plaza, NoDa, Huntersville, Davidson, University and not need a car to commute to Ballantyne for work. (Redline, Blue line, the "tram"

Carolina Place Mall and Lynx ridership would also benefit with a Lynx Carolina Place I would think. I would choose Carolina Place more often over South park if it were connected by rail. Though I doubt SP would lose much business because the 2 malls serve different purposes.

Overall, I think with the Red Line, Current 20 mile Blue line, and the " Lynx green line Tram", adding a Ballantyne/Carolina Place blue line extension would really, really make Mecklenburg County very transit friendly. South Park would be fine being served by Regular CATS buses I think.

 

 

I actually do this commute already. I live in South End and have taken Bland St to Sharon Rd and then take the #43 Bus to Ballantyne.It takes just under an hour for the commute but, it beats sitting in 77 and 485 traffic all more so with the traffic on 485 getting worse with the lane expansion project starting in January. However, the drawback is that the bus only runs every 30 minutes on peak hours and one an hour on non-peak which, of course, does not provide a 'mass-transit' solution to get down there.

It will not stop me from dreaming of a day where light rail comes down throught Pienville, follows Lancaster Highway to the Ballentyne West Stop where the Tram @ Ballentyne Commons Parkway could drop me off in my cluster of office buildings,,,  sigh..

[ah59396]

A guy can dream.

 

Welcome, by the way.

[RVA2CLT]

A guy can dream.

 

Welcome, by the way.

 

Thanks for the welcome.

I've been lurking in the shadows of these threads for about 6 months and thought it was time to join the conversation(s).

Let me jsut say that Charlotte, in particular South End, is basically eveything we've been wanting between our experiences living/working in Dallas, NYC/NJ, DC/NoVA  since 2007 and there's so much more to look forward to here within just the next 5 years. It's quite remarkable actually, We really feel like we landed here just at the right time to experience the continuance of Charlotte's renissaince as well as the growth and rise of Metrolina to a premier international conteneder in the post-financial meltdown economy.

[DMann]

Thanks for the welcome.

I've been lurking in the shadows of these threads for about 6 months and thought it was time to join the conversation(s).

Let me jsut say that Charlotte, in particular South End, is basically eveything we've been wanting between our experiences living/working in Dallas, NYC/NJ, DC/NoVA  since 2007 and there's so much more to look forward to here within just the next 5 years. It's quite remarkable actually, We really feel like we landed here just at the right time to experience the continuance of Charlotte's renissaince as well as the growth and rise of Metrolina to a premier international conteneder in the post-financial meltdown economy.

Well said!  Sometimes living here can mask the incredible changes this city is going through.

[DEnd]

This would be very long term planning but... I think Charlotte needs a ring Transit route. The Map below is what I envision. London is completing theirs with, from what I've read, great success. London is doing theirs to relieve congestion on the Tube, but they are also increasing the connectivity of their transit system. The one weakness Charlottes planned transit options have is lack of connectivity, basically the only place the system really connects with itself is in the center city. This route would improve Charlotte's rail transit connectivity, as well as funnel people to the limited surface rail lines into the center city. I'm not proposing that the line would have to follow the route I laid out, but I did it based on what I think would be important linkages and stops along the line.

 

View Larger Map[/xml]

 

 

Can't get the map to show up so here's the link:

 

http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=W+Sugar+Creek+Rd&daddr=4301+N+Tryon+St,+Charlotte,+NC+to:Eastland+Mall,+5471+Central+Avenue,+Charlotte,+NC+28205+to:2601+N+Sharon+Amity+Rd,+Charlotte,+NC+to:Southpark+Mall,+Sharon+Road,+Charlotte,+NC+to:Woodlawn+Station,+Charlotte,+NC+to:Charlotte+International+Airport,+Charlotte,+NC+to:Rosa+Parks+Place,+Charlotte,+NC+to:35.3011015,-80.8056275+to:W+Sugar+Creek+Rd&hl=en&ll=35.119347,-80.576477&spn=0.498177,0.891953&sll=35.273741,-80.849311&sspn=0.014978,0.027874&geocode=FY6jGgIdGBEv-w;FUAAGgId1Csv-ynJx3iyzB9UiDG-mKxRwCohhA;FTg0GQIdR9Uv-yl9yIo62SFUiDHX2S26wxkLCA;FRgIGQIdlpov-ylRVKdKyyFUiDFsMxLKWIjCNw;FQpfGAIdt6Eu-yFwxSDpeZQnIynHIRTtFZ5WiDFwxSDpeZQnIw;FWW9GAIdLeIt-yl3g-Wo355WiDHoY7tQh1O0ow;FXBsGQId5OMs-yE3p8Q8b0q6GimJ1Eq3fZhWiDE3p8Q8b0q6Gg;FZY5GgIdMzwu-ymh7krAAqFWiDHjOer6WM6Glg;Fe2mGgIdBQEv-ymfLJLmAB5UiDGYPA2fA08dEA;FXujGgIdJhEv-w&oq=Derita&t=h&mra=mru&via=8&z=11

[Urbanity]

^Interesting idea, though I don't think a ring system would be needed for Charlotte.   I know you said "very long term planning" but I can't even imagine Charlotte thinking about a ring system to connect the different lines until, well, until the system actually has different lines.

I'm also not certain I can envision the cost justification for linking some of those areas.

 

If we were going to do wishlist long term planning I would love to see a WT Harris LRT from North Lake to the BLE with a connection to the eventual Commuter Rail.

[tozmervo]

Local developer Clay Grubb apparently voiced support for an additional 1/4 cent sales tax toward transit at the streetcar groundbreaking yesterday. 

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/blog/queen_city_agenda/2012/12/streetcar-groundbreaking-stirs-more.html?ana=twt&page=all

[Urbanity]

Well - I'll go out on a limb here and say this just does not sound good for any state funding, state compromise on funding solutions, or state open minds when it comes to legislation in regards to and for mass transit.   

 

Tony Tata named N.C. Transportation Secretary

 

Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/01/03/2581361/tony-tata-named-nc-transportation.html#storylink=cpy

Edited January 3, 2013 by Urbanity

[cltbwimob]

^^^I don't know too much about him.  What has he done that should cause such a scare?

[kermit]

Well, he got fired from his job as Wake county schools superintendent due to his 'management style' and his reported 'failure to listen.' Throw in his regular appearances of fox news to trumpet for the tea party and we end up with a teapartyesque DOT leader who has a very divisive history.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcschools/2010/12/henderson_says_tatas_exit_unex.html

Edited January 3, 2013 by kermit

[HopHead]

Tata sounds like such a solid choice. Almost as comical as Boehner getting re-elected as speaker.

[cltbwimob]

Ahh, another TEA party guy.   Fantastic. 

 

About 1 month ago I was very happy that McCrory won the election, considering his more moderate and pragmatic approach to issues such as transportation as mayor. His affinity for those connected to the TEA party and the John Locke Foundation are beginning to make me believe that having Dalton as governor would have been better for the city and the state.  It seems as if he has somewhat disavowed the nuanced approach to leadership and politics that made him a good mayor.  Maybe he will be a one term governor.

[ah59396]

Luckily he can't take away the BLE. We can work our way around NCDOT in regards to the streetcar as well. We will just have to be creative. If anything, I'd be worrie if I was Raleigh, who is seeking finding for their light rail.

[Urbanity]

^^^agreed.  I do wonder though if his appointment (and my basic fears with noted nothing to support them yet) will have an effect on the commuter line.

[kermit]

^ last year's legislature passed a bill which requires every NCDOT funded project to go through a cost-benefit analysis which compares construction date cost effectiveness to all other modes. While this doesn't sound so bad it means that all rail projects (where most benefits come from landuse change over 20+ years) passenger miles per dollar at opening must be at least equal to highway projects (whose benefits are both immediate and heavily subsidised). This was an Art Pope / tea party sponsored effort.

IMO state funding for rail will be non-existant for the next two to four years. I am Very glad the BLE made it under the wire.

Edited January 3, 2013 by kermit

[grodney]

ah59396 said: "I do think that, politically, a light rail line to the airport would be a lot easier to pass than virtually any other line currently proposed."

 

I don't understand what a light rail line to the airport accomplishes.  Can you educate me?  I can only see 2 uses:  1) Non-resident business travelers shuttling between airport and uptown, and 2) Uptown residents who travel.  Are those numbers that big?  Or am I missing others?

 

(I'm pretty ignorant on this stuff, so be gentle.)

 

 

Edit: I thought of a 3rd group -- airport workers who use (or would like to use) transit to get to work.

Edited January 8, 2013 by grodney

[kermit]

^ its not just uptown residents who will use the line to get to the airport. There will be many cases where local folks may get dropped off at a station (or take a cab a shorter distance to the lynx rather than the airport) -- no one likes to pay for long term parking at the airport, particularly when you have to take a shuttle bus to the terminal.

 

But, I don't disagree with your basic question, the ridership generated by the airport is likely to be disappointing relative to other trip generators.

[ah59396]

I'm not arguing that the line makes the most sense or will have the highest ridership numbers.  What I'm stating is that politically it would be the most likely to get done.  The CRVA and Center City Partners can argue it will draw bodies into uptown and help with large scale events while making Charlotte look like a "big city".  

 

Politicians can validate it as a step to connect our transportation hubs e.g. airport/light rail/street car/heavy rail.  And most of the general public won't be upset with it because compared to the BLE, it will be cheap and serve a basic, obvious function.  

 

There is no explanation  needed with an airport connection.  People get it.  People don't get TOD.  People don't get economic development impact reports.  An airport connection is much more tangible than "what development will occur in the future in the old intermodal yard near NoDa".

 

So, should it be the next leg of rail to be completed for real reasons?  No.  Would it be the most politically easy to pass?  Probably.