CATS Long Term Transit Plan - Silver, Red Lines

[nowensone]

Yeah, forget capping 277 - sink then cap Indep, reconnect the grid that was severed, and run BRT on top.  That would only cost about $500M right?  At that point run whatever you want on top.

[dubone]

The Independence issue is resolved, and I am pretty glad for how that went.  Turning it into a freeway with HOV lanes for the express buses is far more of the obvious choice with most parcels being re-oriented back toward the neighborhoods. 

 

Standard bus lines with the benefit of joining the HOV is a fine for serving the mostly suburban land use in the south east corridor.  However, we should look for the areas that would be densifying and pursuing whatever mode of transit is most appropriate.   I still think a light rail line along the freight rail corridor from the airport to Matthews should be pursued. 

 

BRT just seems really lame.  Buses are really not that pleasant to ride on, and that is an awful lot of permanent infrastructure just to avoiding electrifying and running on smooth rails.  

 

 

As for freeway caps, I couldn't tell if that was sarcasm, but it would be billions of dollars just to rebuild the freeway on a lower grade, let alone add a really really really wide bridge (the cap).   If it has yet to prove economically viable at Tryon Street in the heart of town, it will absolutely not make sense elsewhere.

[nowensone]

Partially serious, I pan around maps a lot and get annoyed at things that have been done, the cap/grid-reconnection would extend from Louise to Morningside-ish, a little over 1.5 miles guessing.  But yes assumed it would be wildly unfeasible.

[tozmervo]

Heh, Chantilly wouldn't know what to do with itself if it got that much connection back across to P-M

[Third Strike]

Bland St Station is missing

 

Thanks. Fixed.

[Urbanity]

The Independence issue is resolved,.

It is?!  

[ah59396]

dubone, on 20 Nov 2013 - 3:24 PM, said:

The Independence issue is resolved,.

- Thomas Jefferson, 1784

Edited November 21, 2013 by ah59396

[southslider]

The boulevard is never coming back, which is why no major transit investment should be trapped within the middle of such a pedestrian-hostile highway.

And since NCDOT won't give up lanes on Monroe Rd either, we're mostly left with slow, mixed-traffic options.

In other words, where is the exclusive right-of-way with human-scale stations?

[dubone]

NCDOT has not yet decided whether to create a project to move from 2 barriers to 1 for the HOV lanes of what is already built, however it has been decided and engineered that all the remainder of Independence will not have a protected transitway and will instead get HOV lanes with a painted separation from the rest of the lanes.

 

That eliminates the option for LRT and BRT with stations along Independence, thus it has been decided. 

[Third Strike]

The boulevard is never coming back, which is why no major transit investment should be trapped within the middle of such a pedestrian-hostile highway.

And since NCDOT won't give up lanes on Monroe Rd either, we're mostly left with slow, mixed-traffic options.

In other words, where is the exclusive right-of-way with human-scale stations?

What about the option of running rail next/near the CSX railroad? The Silver line could run next to the CSX rail, until it got near Sardis, and then would jump back to the original route, which would be to run near or on Independence Pointe parkway until it gets to the CPCC Levine campus.

 

There seems to be a few light rail lines that run parallel with heavy rail in America. Surely this isn't a total pipe dream?

[15895]

This Is exactly why the whole "priorities" argument against building streetcar until after the silver line annoys me...

It's why I was skeptical of Peacocks commitment to transit. The gold & silver line serves two different purposes. It will take decades for the completion of the silver line.... As opposed to building the gold line while planning the silver line....

My point is not D's versus R's.... It's lets throw up the gold line asap.

Edited November 21, 2013 by AirNostrumMAD

[kermit]

and this sort of discussion is exactly what I hope planners and engineers at CATS are having now. Foxx may (or may not) be able to give Charlotte a 'gift' of federal transit money before he steps down. But we all know that Charlotte won't see a dime of federal money in the absence of a feasible and efficient plan for how to spend it.

 

I am nervous that I have seen no signs from the CIty / CATS / MTC that they are preparing for this possibility -- the clock is ticking. IMO the Gold Line new starts proposal represents the minimum possible effort.

[ah59396]

and this sort of discussion is exactly what I hope planners and engineers at CATS are having now. Foxx may (or may not) be able to give Charlotte a 'gift' of federal transit money before he steps down. But we all know that Charlotte won't see a dime of federal money in the absence of a feasible and efficient plan for how to spend it.

 

I am nervous that I have seen no signs from the CIty / CATS / MTC that they are preparing for this possibility -- the clock is ticking. IMO the Gold Line new starts proposal represents the minimum possible effort.

 

 

That being said, does anyone know someone that works in any "decision making" positions with CATS or the MTC or the city (regarding transit).  I'd feel much better just knowing there is some sort of plan in the works...even if it is just in the early stages.

 

It seems like right now, all we know is that, the city is sticking by a 2030 plan that everyone who has any clue knows:

a.  cannot be funded

b.  is woefully behind

c.  appears to have minimal political support

d.  is now outdated based on growth patterns

[15895]

That being said, does anyone know someone that works in any "decision making" positions with CATS or the MTC or the city (regarding transit). I'd feel much better just knowing there is some sort of plan in the works...even if it is just in the early stages.

It seems like right now, all we know is that, the city is sticking by a 2030 plan that everyone who has any clue knows:

a. cannot be funded

b. is woefully behind

c. appears to have minimal political support

d. is now outdated based on growth patterns

2030 "plan" implies there is an actual plan. As far as I know there is no plan on the silver line. No closer to reality than my blue line spurs I drew on a map

[cltbwimob]

NCDOT has not yet decided whether to create a project to move from 2 barriers to 1 for the HOV lanes of what is already built, however it has been decided and engineered that all the remainder of Independence will not have a protected transitway and will instead get HOV lanes with a painted separation from the rest of the lanes.

That eliminates the option for LRT and BRT with stations along Independence, thus it has been decided.

NCDOT has not yet decided whether to create a project to move from 2 barriers to 1 for the HOV lanes of what is already built, however it has been decided and engineered that all the remainder of Independence will not have a protected transitway and will instead get HOV lanes with a painted separation from the rest of the lanes.

That eliminates the option for LRT and BRT with stations along Independence, thus it has been decided.

I do not think any engineering design beyond conceptual engineering-with special emphasis on the word conceptual- has been performed for the highway beyond the current extension under construction. The MTC asked NCDOT to rescind the median transit option, but there are those in the boards, MTC, TFWG, etc, who have indicated that the Indy corridor is part of the future plans. Its as simple as a pen stroke. With the stroke of a pen about 2 years ago, the provision was rescinded, and with the stroke of a pen, it can return. The lane geometry for the under construction segment would likely require minimal rework to allow for a median transit corridor. It is not as much of a closed case as you may think.

This Is exactly why the whole "priorities" argument against building streetcar until after the silver line annoys me...

It's why I was skeptical of Peacocks commitment to transit. The gold & silver line serves two different purposes. It will take decades for the completion of the silver line.... As opposed to building the gold line while planning the silver line....

My point is not D's versus R's.... It's lets throw up the gold line asap.

Why?

Why would you want your tax dollars to go toward two (MTC 2006) or three (ULI 2011) transit lines, when a well placed single corridor would likely cost less than the other plans, and potentially capture all the ridership projected for each of the individual lines, thereby making it much more likely to meet federal funding criteria. We actually have a world renouned transit/planning expert in Charlotte who says that building a set of lines just to build something is a detriment to building a system with true region-wide appeal. Why is there such an inclination to adopt the penny-wise and pound-foolish mentality? I would much rather have to wait a couple of years to have what's best than to settle for second rate right now.

That being said, does anyone know someone that works in any "decision making" positions with CATS or the MTC or the city (regarding transit). I'd feel much better just knowing there is some sort of plan in the works...even if it is just in the early stages.

In a word...yes. I hesitate to provide details of all who are involved, and the extent of their involvement until some resolution is reached, but yes. Edited November 21, 2013 by cltbwimob

[15895]

Im not going to go into details about why I believe the gold line has merit. I think on the issues of MLB and streetcar, opinions are set in stone at this point.

[southslider]

Any new federal project will require local match. Hence, Gold Line - Phase 2 as a Small Starts project. The City has already committed $60 million. Any other project lacks match, especially state, but even County sales tax.

[birky]

The MLK extension would go between the Panthers practice fields and the JWU campus. There is currently a sidewalk/path in this area. If you look on Google Maps, there is a line that says "W 3rd St" that connects to Cedar St that would be the approximate alignment.

 

Any updates on the extension of MLK to Cedar?  I only ask because we are moving to 3rd ward next month and this could impact us quite a bit.

[rugger62]

Having driven by JC Smith last weekend just to see what is going on, the City should be embarrased not to complete the Gold Line. Not only is there already a ton of development along Trade/Beatties Ford, we have the chance to reconnect one of our few universities with the center city. We need to bridge gaps, not widen them...

[15895]

http://www.thecharlotteweekly.com/news/2014/01/cats-boss-gives-southpark-update-on-transit/

Not really an update on SouthPark transit but supposedly Cats wants to cut transfers from uptown and distribute it to the other hubs. I think a transfer station along Harris Blvd. would be excellent. Connecting E Harris area to the West Harris area would be awesome

Edited January 18, 2014 by AirNostrumMAD

[Third Strike]

http://www.thecharlotteweekly.com/news/2014/01/cats-boss-gives-southpark-update-on-transit/

Not really an update on SouthPark transit but supposedly Cats wants to cut transfers from uptown and distribute it to the other hubs. I think a transfer station along Harris Blvd. would be excellent. Connecting E Harris area to the West Harris area would be awesome

 

I agree. I think a line that transverses along Harris Boulevard from Northlake to Independence Blvd, along with a quick detour to UNC Charlotte, would do wonders for that part of town. On a related note, I'm honestly surprised a line connecting UNC Charlotte to Northlake hasn't been considered yet. You literally have to go all the way to uptown, and then transfer to the 7, to reach that area.

[15895]

^ yes....

It kills me.... I work in UC and going to be living in North Lake... Using public transportation is practically no option... And I really go way out of my way to use public transportation. But that's just a little too much....

Edited January 19, 2014 by AirNostrumMAD

[southslider]

Hopefully, with 485 opening, the City would finally treat WT Harris more like a boulevard than a highway, and actually add sidewalks. Otherwise, what's the point of having a bus line that lacks access along it?

[kermit]

I know its not an equivalent but it extending the Mallard Creek Greenway to Northlake does not appear to be difficult (well, to Statesville rd at least). I have been puzzled about why this link hasn't been made.

Having said that, I can't really fathom biking through either Northlake or UC....

[15895]

I'd also like to see enhanced transfer bus stations with large shelters and maybe even a screen displaying ETA of buses.

Have the buses named after certain destinations North Lake Mall as opposed to E. Harris). I feel like people are more comfortable with Light Rail because they feel comfortable on where it's taking them where as bus I feel like people are sorta confused or nervous about where it goes or don't realize the destination on the route or arent sure of bus schedules.

Get off Light Rail, step over to the shelter, look at the board, bus ABC North Lake Mall has a bus that should come at these times.

Transfer stations (should we get proper ones) along blue line should be just as simple as taking the blue line.

I think that would be super awesome and encourage more people to give transit (not just LRT) a shot.

I'd like to see a more proper enhanced bus station @ Tyvola station with signs that say "South Park Mall/South Park Transit Transfer Center" . Have a list of destinations SouthPark can transfer you to

(Edit: I know the bus system is easy to understand for a lot of folks but I'm talking about broadening the base of transit users by making the experience of transferring to buses as extremely simple and very easy to understand just like light rail)

Edited January 19, 2014 by AirNostrumMAD