CATS Long Term Transit Plan - Silver, Red Lines

[MilZ]

http://cltdevelopment.blogspot.com/2014/02/council-member-forget-streetcar-build.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

hmm...

[R.Talbott]

http://cltdevelopment.blogspot.com/2014/02/council-member-forget-streetcar-build.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

hmm...

If SLC can do it, we can do it.

[Madison Parkitect]

If SLC can do it, we can do it.

The SLC rail system is really great. Although it's a little jarring how their super-nice downtown core just immediately turns into low-income areas about a mile outside the center.

[Guest]

Did I miss something???? How did a City with 190k people with 1,700 per square mile density and barely a million people in the metro get such an extensive rail system? 

[Madison Parkitect]

Did I miss something???? How did a City with 190k people with 1,700 per square mile density and barely a million people in the metro get such an extensive rail system? 

I've always assumed the rail system in SLC, and probably the entire reason the downtown there is nice, is because of Mormon church money.

[Guest]

That and The SLC Winter Olympics probably

[southslider]

I tend to agree with Councilwoman Fallon. The Gold Line will be good for replacing Gold Rush. But beyond that, Charlotte needs a true east-west light-rail line.

[teeg]

Did I miss something???? How did a City with 190k people with 1,700 per square mile density and barely a million people in the metro get such an extensive rail system? 

 

^^reminded me of something I read a few months ago. 

 

How Utah Turned Its Unpopular Public Transit System Into a Hit

http://www.theatlanticcities.com/commute/2013/10/how-utah-turned-its-unpopular-public-transit-system-hit/7298/

[Madison Parkitect]

I tend to agree with Councilwoman Fallon. The Gold Line will be good for replacing Gold Rush. But beyond that, Charlotte needs a true east-west light-rail line.

I totally agree, and would rather have true light rail running down Central instead of the trolley. But is something like that actually possible? I'm not familiar enough with the various rights-of-way along Central to know whether it would be possible to carve an extra 40 feet along its length. Anybody know?

[km1789]

the ease/beauty in the blue line is that so much of it was/is in existing right of way. The amount of property that would need to be acquired would be immense and therefore very expensive. The best hope for a LRT line going east would be an elevated system in the median of Independence blvd, replacing the BRT lines. 

[southslider]

No need to run any rail down Central. Gold Line could end at Sunnyside. Silver Line could have a station at Pecan.

[kermit]

^ or the East-West line could be tunneled through downtown (Central and Hawthrone to Freedom/Morehead - about three miles) at Spanish prices ($40million per km) it would be about $270 million for the tunnel. 

 

http://pedestrianobservations.wordpress.com/2011/07/29/quick-note-barcelona-rail-tunnel/

 

Too bad Americans are incapable of tunneling for anywhere near that amount of money

[cltbwimob]

I totally agree, and would rather have true light rail running down Central instead of the trolley. But is something like that actually possible? I'm not familiar enough with the various rights-of-way along Central to know whether it would be possible to carve an extra 40 feet along its length. Anybody know?

 

 

the ease/beauty in the blue line is that so much of it was/is in existing right of way. The amount of property that would need to be acquired would be immense and therefore very expensive. The best hope for a LRT line going east would be an elevated system in the median of Independence blvd, replacing the BRT lines. 

 

Actually, putting a true LRT would likely require little modification. The current width of the lanes  on Central Avenue is 13 ft for the outside lanes and 10 ft for the inside lanes.  If the inner lanes were widened to 13 ft, (and the outside lanes reduced) one could create a 26 ft wide transit guide-way.  It would of course require removing the center two lanes from automobile traffic usage, thereby reducing the road to a 2 lane road.  However Norfolk did just that in their downtown, reducing four lane roads to two lane roads.  Much of Norfolk's right-of-way in downtown is only about 28 ft wide. 

[Spartan]

^ or the East-West line could be tunneled through downtown (Central and Hawthrone to Freedom/Morehead - about three miles) at Spanish prices ($40million per km) it would be about $270 million for the tunnel. 

 

http://pedestrianobservations.wordpress.com/2011/07/29/quick-note-barcelona-rail-tunnel/

 

Too bad Americans are incapable of tunneling for anywhere near that amount of money

 

Its really not a bad idea. Plus the costs could be offset by all the gold they will find under there.

[southslider]

Freedom Drive is plenty wide between 77 and 85, such that a tunnel shouldn't be needed.

[LKN704]

Wasn't there a plan for a subway under Trade St. a few years ago?

 

Anyway, I spoke to several people at CATS, who told me that they are currently working on a Contactless Smart Card, and are supposedly putting out a bid this year. Not sure about the truth in this statement.

[Norm2]

Wasn't there a plan for a subway under Trade St. a few years ago?

 

Anyway, I spoke to several people at CATS, who told me that they are currently working on a Contactless Smart Card, and are supposedly putting out a bid this year. Not sure about the truth in this statement.

It would be awesome if this were true. Chicago has been using this for a while now.

[LKN704]

^As has almost every other major city in America. Boston has the CharlieCard, NYC has the MetroCard, Seattle has the ORCA card, San Diego has the Compass Card, Atlanta has the Breeze Card, the list goes on. I don't know why CATS is so late in the game in getting a system like this implemented, it should have already been in place when the blue line opened.

[RVA2CLT]

So thought I'd see how Houston's 'Metro' LRT system was coming along on it's 10 year anniversary of the 2004 launch of their initial 7.5 mile Red line.

This year they are opening an additional 15.2 miles of LRT w/ a 5.2 mile Redline north extension (sounds familiar) and 2 new LRT lines, East & SouthEast. Most of it runs in the center median or side of roads in it's own ROW (i.e. Scaleybark).

That's an impressive build-out within 10 years to expand the existing line and deploy 2 new LRT lines.

Compared to the 4th largest city In the US, I think Charlotte is doing pretty well as our LRT's 10 year anniversary in 2017 will see the same approx amount of total LRT track, although on a single N-S line, but we will also see a couple miles of a E-W Streetcar/Tram which may be expanding at that time.

Edited February 23, 2014 by RVA2CLT

[ajfunder]

And hopefully the Red Line is gathering steam by then to. Whatever happened to the Norfolk Southern study, I thought it was to be completed by last month.

[RVA2CLT]

I really like how they combined a downtown water feature as the LRT ROW.

I wonder if Charlotte will ever be this progressive in planning with transit.
It would be pretty awesome to ride a train right through the middle of a 5-10 ft fountain show on each side, lit-up with a colors at night.

Edited February 24, 2014 by RVA2CLT

[nowensone]

^ I lived there not terribly long ago, and pretty sure that's not a fountain, just standard flooding.  

[ChessieCat]

So thought I'd see how Houston's 'Metro' LRT system was coming along on it's 10 year anniversary of the 2004 launch of their initial 7.5 mile Red line.

This year they are opening an additional 15.2 miles of LRT w/ a 5.2 mile Redline north extension (sounds familiar) and 2 new LRT lines, East & SouthEast. Most of it runs in the center median or side of roads in it's own ROW (i.e. Scaleybark).

That's an impressive build-out within 10 years to expand the existing line and deploy 2 new LRT lines.

Compared to the 4th largest city In the US, I think Charlotte is doing pretty well as our LRT's 10 year anniversary in 2017 will see the same approx amount of total LRT track, although on a single N-S line, but we will also see a couple miles of a E-W Streetcar/Tram which may be expanding at that time.

Houston also has similar issues vis-a-vis Charlotte:

 

1) They have an old, crappy Amtrak station that they are trying to replace with a new Intermodal Transit Center like our own Gateway Station, but they can't secure the funding.  It was canceled:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houston_Intermodal_Transit_Center

 

2) They will soon be the largest city in the country without an Airport LRT connection.  Hobby airport is the likeliest candidate and IAH is too far away.  Like the proposed West Line to CLT, there are doubts about ridership.

 

3) They have the same issues with trying to develop Commuter Rail:

http://www.chron.com/opinion/article/Houston-deserves-better-rail-service-4337295.php 

Edited February 25, 2014 by ChessieCat

[kermit]

Houston also has similar issues vis-a-vis Charlotte:

 

1) They have an old, crappy Amtrak station that they are trying to replace with a new Intermodal Transit Center like our own Gateway Station, but they can't secure the funding.  It was cancelled

Houston does have a crappy Amtrak station. However, a new station is unlikely to change much there. Houston only sees six trains per week (three to New Orleans, three to Los Angeles per week). There are no plans for more intercity trains other than a nacient, privately funded, Texas high speed effort which will build new ROW and stations.

Charlotte currently sees eight trains per day, with planned (and funded) increases to 12 per day (84 per week) in the next couple years. Bringing all of those passengers into downtown (and giving them reasonable transit connections) will generate huge ridership gains. There are only a handful of cities outside the Northeast which see more daily trains than Charlotte (or Greensboro or Raleigh).

[ChessieCat]

Houston does have a crappy Amtrak station. However, a new station is unlikely to change much there. Houston only sees six trains per week (three to New Orleans, three to Los Angeles per week). There are no plans for more intercity trains other than a nacient, privately funded, Texas high speed effort which will build new ROW and stations.

Charlotte currently sees eight trains per day, with planned (and funded) increases to 12 per day (84 per week) in the next couple years. Bringing all of those passengers into downtown (and giving them reasonable transit connections) will generate huge ridership gains. There are only a handful of cities outside the Northeast which see more daily trains than Charlotte (or Greensboro or Raleigh).

CLT is dominated by the Piedmont service but considering NCDOT loses money every year on it, let's hope there are no cuts to it.  Houston doesn't have a Piedmont service equivalent which is strange considering Houston, Dallas, Waco, SA, and Austin make a triangle...