CATS Long Term Transit Plan - Silver, Red Lines

[15895]

I now have to take I77 to Mooresville to Charlotte and you guys.... I could kill myself with that drive.... Traffic, traffic, traffic. I knew it was bad but I hadnt drive it in a while. The last 6 times I have been... It's been stop and go traffic every single time both directions. It's in off times (for example 1pm on Tuesday, etc).

The red line is soooo badly needed. I hope something happens with it sooner than later.

[MilZ]

^Yes, as someone who does a "reverse commute" to work in Mooresville, traffic is always at a stand still from 4:30 to 6 PM heading TOWARDS Charlotte between Mooresville and Huntersville. I imagine once the 485 loop is completed this stretch will be way behind its tolerance.

[allthingsplanes]

I'm the same - and sometimes it seems like the reverse commute is worse (or at least as bad as) the regular commute!

[ChessieCat]

I now have to take I77 to Mooresville to Charlotte and you guys.... I could kill myself with that drive.... Traffic, traffic, traffic. I knew it was bad but I hadnt drive it in a while. The last 6 times I have been... It's been stop and go traffic every single time both directions. It's in off times (for example 1pm on Tuesday, etc).

The red line is soooo badly needed. I hope something happens with it sooner than later.

If only Charlotte had Cercanias (commuter rail) like Madrid!  The fact that Madrid Barajas airport will soon have three forms of rail transport (metro, commuter, and HSR) is impressive!

[southslider]

The freight railroads killed Red Line, when they killed the grade-separation Uptown. If North Meck wants to see major transit investment anytime soon, it should be BRT. A guideway will already be built, thanks to HOT lanes. The only problem is that NCDOT is willing to sign a non-compete clause, giving the awarded private concessionaire final say on any added bus ramps and stations.

[ChessieCat]

^I don't blame the freight RR's given the FRA's dranconian restrictions on concurrent running of freight / passenger ops on the same trackage.  Not even tram-trains in Austin nor New Jersey can run at the same time as freight, which is restricted to night ops

[ChessieCat]

Did anyone attend the "East Coast P3 Infrastructure Conference" at the Westin this week?  Anything interesting come out of it?

http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/blog/queen_city_agenda/2014/03/mccrory-more-changes-to-come-in-transit.html?page=all

http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/blog/queen_city_agenda/2014/03/state-national-leaders-in-charlotte-to-solve.html

 

Also, has anyone attended the CRTPO Metro Transport Plan 2040 meetings?

Edited March 7, 2014 by ChessieCat

[thetrick]

^I don't blame the freight RR's given the FRA's dranconian restrictions on concurrent running of freight / passenger ops on the same trackage.  Not even tram-trains in Austin nor New Jersey can run at the same time as freight, which is restricted to night ops

 

FRA only restricts "light" passenger rail vehicles from running concurrently with freight. Amtrak runs with freight all the time. The Red Line was always designed to use heavy weight passenger vehicles (like Amtrak). The real problem is capacity and that CATS seemed to totally disregard Norfolk Southerns ownership of the tracks and what their future needs might be. Currently NS runs two trains daily up the O line it would get very expensive to build enough track to accommodate concurrent operations with out delays to the passenger service, which would obviously be unacceptable to passengers. What it's going to boil down to is that the Red Line needs to be double tracked at least up to Gerdau Ameristeel if not all the way to Hunterville, and who is going to pay for that?

 

I am a big passenger rail supporter, and support most of CATS plans, but they screwed up the Red Line not covering all the bases and making some unfounded arrogant assumptions about what they could do with other peoples property.

 

If the Red Line project was farther along and had strong support and a funding plan I doubt the grade crossing separation could have been killed so easily.

 

TH

[archiham04]

I learned last night the the CRTPlong range MTP (Metropolitan Transportation Plan) has a 30 day public comment period that ends today.  I also learned that if comments are late, a day or so, they will likley be included.  I understand that this is likely discussed elsewhere, but felt it should be reiterated here nonetheless...

 

 

http://crtpo.org/plans-programs/metropolitan-transportation-plan

[dubone]

http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/ 

 

Find Charlotte on this chart:  

 

[Norm2]

http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/ 

 

Find Charlotte on this chart:  

 

Charlotte's surprising jump in bus ridership is shocking!

[dubone]

I think it is more or less due to the 1c sales tax getting started in earnest around 2001, so most of every transit improvement has been in that time frame.   But it is all quite impressive compared to our peers as long as that growth is not just catching up, but actually doing something better. 

[tozmervo]

This was buried in the comments for that Transport Politic post, supposedly the Houston Metro. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CV2rdGX4JYc#t=126

[dubone]

Taking cars off the road, one at a time.  

 

I do worry about this with the streetcar.   

[15895]

Taking cars off the road, one at a time.

I do worry about this with the streetcar.

Hahaha, that music soooo matches the anti transit folks.

It looked like it was the cars fault almost every time.

I can find numerous videos of planes crashing. Car pile up shutting down the interstate... Pedestrians getting hit by cars, people wiping out on bikes/skateboards...

Not sure why streetcar is demonized because of careless drivers :/

[dubone]

Can't wait for self-driving cars!!

 

So in recent months, for some reason, I have been a fly on the wall for conversations among terrible hoomans.   (Drugs, racism, backward politics, etc.)  One of the conversations I have overheard, but wasn't in a position to get involved to share just how stupid it is, was someone boasting about getting around the crossing arms and beating the train for the Lynx.    To save maybe 4 minutes, they risk an expensive and potentially fatal accident, and they probably don't even probably save that 4 minutes because they would catch a light up ahead anyway.   

 

I'm sure people make the same biased and irrational calculations in Houston and lose.     

[orulz]

The Charlotte Streetcar will not have this problem as far as I can tell. It is in 100% mixed traffic. It will obey all traffic rules and drivers will interact with the streetcar exactly as they would with a bus.

The problem in Houston is that their light rail is in a lane that is sometimes dedicated but sometimes shared as a left turn lane, which is really boneheaded. Plus, where it is dedicated, it is separated from traffic only by those circular bump things that look like overgrown reflectors. It is, IMO, genuinely a poorly designed rail line.

Fault the drivers if you wish, but I can see why it's so confusing. Look all over the country and you will be hard pressed to find any other examples of dedicated left turn lanes that you can use any time except when a train happens to be approaching from behind. No wonder they are confused.

Also, don't let the poor design decisions in Houston make you think streetcar or light rail in mixed traffic is inherently dangerous. It isn't.

Some of the accidents shown in the Houston video are simply drivers running red lights. Streetcars are no more vulnerable to that than buses or cars. The difference is that the streetcar will be much heavier, so in a wreck, it will win.

Edited March 25, 2014 by orulz

[dubone]

That is a good explanation and very reassuring.   It is self-fulfilling prophecies in right-wing cities, but the world can easily see which ideology is unsuccessful at building livable cities.   It seems that starving transit of funding to properly engineer and design it has negative results, like so many aspects of Houston.  

[kermit]

It looked like it was the cars fault almost every time.

 

How can streetcars ever be at fault? They can't swerve, they have the right of way and they are certainly not invisible. Perhaps a streetcar rear ending an auto if they run in mixed traffic, but otherwise???

[tozmervo]

You know, that's an interesting question from a legal standpoint. Presumably there is some kind of law that autos have to yield right-of-way to rail vehicles at all times. I wonder if modern NC law accounts for mixed-traffic situations?

[dubone]

Streetcars are at fault because "Thanks Obama". 

 

There is a whole swath of our society that thinks cars are infallible, even though driving in one is often the most dangerous thing we do in our lives.  Well, actually bicycling is more dangerous, but again due to cars but not in the eyes of those people. 

[km1789]

You know, that's an interesting question from a legal standpoint. Presumably there is some kind of law that autos have to yield right-of-way to rail vehicles at all times. I wonder if modern NC law accounts for mixed-traffic situations?

 

can we really call the NC laws "modern".....?

[CLTProductions]

can we really call the NC laws "modern".....?

 not most of them

[dubone]

Just wait if the Supreme Court rules that anyone can ignore any portion of a law on religious groups (contraceptives).   Then maybe there will be conscientious objectors to most things in the modern world.  

[LKN704]

Most light rail systems in the US are very similar to the system in Houston in that they interact with street traffic and essentially operate on the street. The Lynx is one of the only light rail systems in the US that is entirely grade separated and all stations have high level boarding platforms, similar to a subway or commuter rail.