New Bonney Road Development

[vdogg]

Thanks for the info and rendering. Looks to be about what I expected given the description. It’ll be good infill to give that portion of Bonney a bit more connection to downtown VB (can we call it that now?) proper.

[baobabs727]

 

2 hours ago, vdogg said:

Thanks for the info a rendering. Looks to be about what I expected given the description. It’ll be good infill to give that portion of Bonney a bit more connection to downtown VB (can we call it that now?) proper.

Yeah, I totally agree. This project still fills a void in the office segment, though it has changed quite a bit in scope, intended use, concept/layout/configuration and design since I first posted details some 2 years ago. From what I understand from the developer, there have been far too many difficulties/obstacles/setbacks to even report. The project has changed several times since Winter 2018, for reasons beyond his control. 

By the way, the stormwater issue has apparently created monumental havoc, much added expense, and lengthy delays.  Also, there is a Chesapeake Bay Board-mandated 100 foot (!) setback from the creek which, along with many other factors, has reduced the buildable portion of this property to something equivalent to an irregularly shaped shoehorn (relative to its total platted size). 

And, yes! “Downtown,“ it is! Yah!

 

p.s..  I just corrected an error (by deletion) in my earlier post which indicated that there were two parking decks. Those grids, I have now received clarification, are actually two underground water storage retention facilities. $$$$

Edited July 21, 2020 by baobabs727

[baobabs727]

I just spoke with Mr. Cutchins. Looks like this project is dead in its current form, although permits are in place and final ok is close to being granted by city officials. However, the pandemic has basically eradicated  commercial lending for office, so funding fell through.

Recently, he has been approached by a national developer to JV an apartment complex there which will pay handsome dividends on investment at 2X that of the former project. 

[vdogg]

5 hours ago, baobabs727 said:

I just spoke with Mr. Cutchins. Looks like this project is dead in its current form, although permits are in place and final ok is close to being granted by city officials. However, the pandemic has basically eradicated  commercial lending for office, so funding fell through.

Recently, he has been approached by a national developer to JV an apartment complex there which will pay handsome dividends on investment at 2X that of the former project. 

There's a huge dearth of apartments in this area, I'm actually surprised we haven't had in the apartment construction boom considering how short the supply is currently.

[baobabs727]

14 minutes ago, vdogg said:

There's a huge dearth of apartments in this area, I'm actually surprised we haven't had in the apartment construction boom considering how short the supply is currently.

I agree. He seems disappointed but at the same time excited to move forward with something new. There is pent-up demand to be sure. John Moss won’t like it though! 

[vdogg]

18 minutes ago, baobabs727 said:

I agree. He seems disappointed but at the same time excited to move forward with something new. There is pent-up demand to be sure. John Moss won’t like it though! 

John Moss doesn't like anything.

[BFG]

If John Moss had his way, Virginia Beach would go back to being Princess Anne County tomorrow.

[urbanlife]

7 hours ago, vdogg said:

There's a huge dearth of apartments in this area, I'm actually surprised we haven't had in the apartment construction boom considering how short the supply is currently.

I am actually surprised that Pembroke hasn't seen a few multi tower apartment complexes go in yet. 

[baobabs727]

Mr. Cutchins reports to me that things have slowed to a snail’s pace on this. He attributes this largely to city staff working from home (Covid) and massive bureaucratic, inflexible red tape.  Stormwater remains the tipping point for all developers in the city nowadays. 

[Virginia City]

On 4/22/2021 at 5:27 PM, BFG said:

If John Moss had his way, Virginia Beach would go back to being Princess Anne County tomorrow.

Honestly, that might not be a bad thing lol. 

[CrazyPy]

20 hours ago, Virginia City said:

Honestly, that might not be a bad thing lol. 

As long as it's south of Princess Anne, sure.

[vdogg]

This seems interesting... Troutman Pepper

United States

Phone 1 (Do not enter dashes) : 

757-687-7547

[email protected]

Project Description:

Bonney Road Multi Family Residential Development

Preliminary Concept Plan

Owner of the property is the city of VB. Address is given as 0 Bonney Road, which doesn't seem acturate. Seems like something to watch.

Also, Troutman is based in Town Center. I'm guessing this is some sort of peripheral development like City View.

[metalman]

Do you think it’s this property?

 

[HRVA]

“Bozzuto Development Company”

Seems like this would be that out of town multifamily developer that was referenced by baobabs in his conversation with Olympia. 

[HRVA]

Olympia has filed a zoning application for 242 apartment units in two four story buildings for this site. 

[baobabs727]

Recently, I have heard from Mr. Cutchins (Olympia Development). He confirmed that his plans are "tightening up" for this parcel. Re-zoning app in 03/02/22.  As usual, he reports that stormwater is "difficult to deal with, very expensive...." States Class A Office is "flat on its back" and that any assertion to the contrary is flat out bull.   

Edited March 31, 2022 by baobabs727

[vdogg]

2 hours ago, baobabs727 said:

Recently, I have heard from Mr. Cutchins (Olympia Development). He confirmed that his plans are "tightening up" for this parcel. Re-zoning app in 03/02/22.  As usual, he reports that stormwater is "difficult to deal with, very expensive...." States Class A Office is "flat on its back" and that any assertion to the contrary is flat out bull.   

In a general sense, I believe that to be true. I think both developments at Town Center and Pembroke however deal with existing tenants wanting to expand, so we may still get those off the ground.

[baobabs727]

On 3/31/2022 at 4:29 PM, vdogg said:

In a general sense, I believe that to be true. I think both developments at Town Center and Pembroke however deal with existing tenants wanting to expand, so we may still get those off the ground.

Well, what I didn't really want to say was that in so alleging, he was actually making a point (which he did to me, explicitly, and in more words which I won't quote here) that true free-market demand for such a thing does not exist right now absent  City "direction," and more importantly, City subsidy. 

[baobabs727]

Mr. Cutchins is very pleased to present his new luxury apartment development on Bonney Road.  Tomorrow, he is closing on the property after a 5 year negotiation with the City of Virginia Beach.  No renderings yet.  Here is the site plan:Olympia Development Bonney Road Apartments.pdf:  

Two (2) four (4)  story building complexes with 242 apartments and all of the expected amenities. Mr. Cutchins says he aims to set a  new standard for quality and design aesthetics in Hampton Roads apartment living.  He also added that  he would have built many more units had the City granted his request to partner on a parking garage.    

Edited April 28, 2022 by baobabs727

[vdogg]

And no garage equals a sea of parking fronting Bonney road, which is unfortunate to say the least.

[baobabs727]

33 minutes ago, vdogg said:

And no garage equals a sea of parking fronting Bonney road, which is unfortunate to say the least.

Agreed.  Problem lies with the particular environmental features of the site and the sizeable required setbacks ...plus the odd shape of the parcel ...both of which reduce the available developable acreage. The requirement for the extremely costly underground stormwater management system certainly doesn't help matters, either.  The garage was simply a few many million dollars too far. 

[Lluck002]

15 hours ago, baobabs727 said:

Mr. Cutchins is very pleased to present his new luxury apartment development on Bonney Road.  Tomorrow, he is closing on the property after a 5 year negotiation with the City of Virginia Beach.  No renderings yet.  Here is the site plan:Olympia Development Bonney Road Apartments.pdf:  

Two (2) four (4)  story building complexes with 242 apartments and all of the expected amenities. Mr. Cutchins says he aims to set a  new standard for quality and design aesthetics in Hampton Roads apartment living.  He also added that  he would have built many more units had the City granted his request to partner on a parking garage.    

Lol we just reviewed this plan in a meeting the other day and all agreed it was plain and cookie-cutter in terms of design. We are likely going to ask the developer for something more unique and higher-quality. Interesting the developer is trying to market this as “setting a new standard” haha.

[vdogg]

4 hours ago, Lluck002 said:

Lol we just reviewed this plan in a meeting the other day and all agreed it was plain and cookie-cutter in terms of design. We are likely going to ask the developer for something more unique and higher-quality. Interesting the developer is trying to market this as “setting a new standard” haha.

Are you going to ask him to bring the buildings closer to the road and hide the parking behind them?

[Lluck002]

On 4/29/2022 at 12:46 PM, vdogg said:

Are you going to ask him to bring the buildings closer to the road and hide the parking behind them?

That is what we said would be preferred in the meeting, so hopefully!

[baobabs727]

On 4/29/2022 at 8:05 AM, Lluck002 said:

Lol we just reviewed this plan in a meeting the other day and all agreed it was plain and cookie-cutter in terms of design. We are likely going to ask the developer for something more unique and higher-quality. Interesting the developer is trying to market this as “setting a new standard” haha.

I'm only reporting that which Mr. Cutchins has informed me, and I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss him. He's a fine gentleman and a true entrepreneur with a proven track record of delivering the goods in VB. I've been speaking with and corresponding with Mr. Cutchins for many years as he singlehandedly transformed office in the Bonney Rd. corridor/VBTC-adjacent...and was doing so well before anyone else was in that game to any sizeable degree.  His office designs, landscaping, hardscaping, accent lighting, water features, maintenance schedule, etc., are second to none for mid-rise complexes (such as Convergence) in this area. He has always gone well above and beyond the usual lackluster HR standards. He took big risks, and they have paid off handsomely for everyone, and for that, he deserves our admiration and respect.

Additionally, prior to asking for the City to partner on a parking structure for this Bonney Road project, Mr. Cutchins had never once before--in the entirety of his long and storied career--taken any subsidies from the taxpayers to get his projects completed.  Just let that sink in for a moment  Can you say the same about BT? AH? Pembroke Sq. Assocs, etc, etc, etc?  I think we should all admire him for that.  However in this case, he had no choice to but ask, and had the City agreed to partner as they have with countless other developers, he would have built nearly double the units, closer to Bonney Rd. and with a different design.  (Remember too that he's JV with a DC developer who is a longtime family friend, so he's not in total and complete control here.)  

As for more of the "why" this particular project isn't something "more," you need only look to the City and to the department you happen to work for for an explanation.  Mr. Cutchins has told me time and time again that the City of Virginia Beach has become a City of "NO" ...when it was once an easy place in which to do business.   Endless delays, revisions, red tape.  Non-responsive employees.  The back-and-forth has been ongoing for five (5) years with this project and has force him to change designs several times. The stormwater requirements have become inordinately onerous and cause literally months and years-long, nightmarish project design delays with tremendous, added and attendant  design and build costs which frequently render projects completely untenable from an economic standpoint.  Rigidity of Rules vs. Economic Reality. Things got so bad the Mayor Dyer tasked Mr. Duhaney's office with reaching out to the development community to find common ground and compromise:  to streamline processes, provide additional staff outreach and resources, shorten approval delays, increase employee response times, etc.  Reforms have now been enacted, so you needn't take my or Mr. Cutchins word for it.  The problem is public knowledge and is on the record  via televised City Council workshops/informals. Mr. Dyer likes to say, "we must make Virginia  Beach a City of YES again!"  I concur. We need to reward folks of good will and excellent businessmen like Mr. Cutchins, not thwart, punish, repel and price $$$$ out of business.

Having said that, you are relatively new to the department, bear no responsibility for its past "mistakes" and are likely part of the solution.  Keep up the good work!  

 

Edited May 4, 2022 by baobabs727