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One of our regional Fortune 500 companies headquartered in Melbourne, hosted a tech competition for high school kids from Florida and NJ . Good news, the local kids put the Northerners to shame - congrats!

More importantly, the article noted that 6600 folks work for Harris here, another example of tech jobs in the region.

Harris Corporation hosts virtual sailing battle between Florida and New Jersey, as students hone STEM skills
http://bit.ly/2HfcrT4

From the Sentinel

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Just saw this repeat episode of Metro Center Outlook on channel 24. Thought it was pretty interesting and germane to some things we've discussed here regarding jobs and our local economic drivers etc.

For anyone who might not be familiar, it's an interview format show concerned with Central Florida economic and cultural issues. It appears on WUCF on Sundays. Partial episodes run on weeknights as filler when they have about 10 minutes they need to fill.

What I just watched was the first 1/3rd or so, of the entire episode posted here.

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The link from JFW657 was to the segment related to our film industry and was very informative. Also, if you have 25 minutes to kill go to the Metro Center Outlook page and scroll down to the segment titled "Economic Development". It has some pertinent info. Direct links to specific segments don't seem to work well, so here is the main page... http://video.wucftv.org/show/metro-center-outlook/

 

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Amazon Median pay disclosed: "the company disclosed the median annual pay for Amazon workers other than Bezos, which was $28,446, reflecting the large number of retail and warehouse employees on staff. That number was listed in Amazon’s annual proxy statement, filed with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission on Wednesday. . . . The ratio between the median pay number and Bezos’s total was 1 to 59."

Found via Barry Ritholtz' excellent financial blog, The Big Picture: http://ritholtz.com/2018/04/28446/

HQ2, anybody?

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48 minutes ago, dcluley98 said:

Amazon Median pay disclosed: "the company disclosed the median annual pay for Amazon workers other than Bezos, which was $28,446, reflecting the large number of retail and warehouse employees on staff. That number was listed in Amazon’s annual proxy statement, filed with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission on Wednesday. . . . The ratio between the median pay number and Bezos’s total was 1 to 59."

Found via Barry Ritholtz' excellent financial blog, The Big Picture: http://ritholtz.com/2018/04/28446/

HQ2, anybody?

An even better reason to have chased after the HQ2 executive & admin jobs, rather than settling for low-wage warehouse jobs.

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The U.S. Army selected the finalist-cities for its new technology & innovation command (formally called the Army Futures Command).  

The Army emphasized access to leading tech companies and research universities, with no consideration given to exiting Army facilities.

The finalists are:  Atlanta, Austin, Boston, Chicago, Dallas, Denver, Houston, LA, Minneapolis, NYC, Philadelphia, Raleigh, San Diego, San Francisco, and Seattle.

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Add Bill Gates to a list of investors for a rapidly expanding manufacturing cluster in the relatively new field of small satellites:

EarthNow satellite plan will boost Central Florida space manufacturing cluster
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/brinkmann-on-business/os-earthnow-satellite-manufacturing-20180424-story.html

From the Sentinel

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November 2017 report from the U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis (Dept. of Commerce):

In 2006, the Orlando MSA ranked 161st in the nation in "per capita personal income".

In 2016, the Orlando MSA ranked 241st .

"In 2006-2016 compound annual growth rate of PCPI was 1.8 percent.  The compound annual growth rate for the state was 3.0 percent and for the nation was 2.6 percent."

So in other words....Orlando's wages - already horribly low - have actually fallen further behind other areas.  

That was BEFORE Disney announced 3,500 new jobs and Universal announced 3,000 new jobs.  Brings on this Starflyer thing....that should help!  And new parks in Disney and/or Universal.  

It's a race to the bottom. 

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2 hours ago, I am Reality said:

November 2017 report from the U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis (Dept. of Commerce):

In 2006, the Orlando MSA ranked 161st in the nation in "per capita personal income".

In 2016, the Orlando MSA ranked 241st .

"In 2006-2016 compound annual growth rate of PCPI was 1.8 percent.  The compound annual growth rate for the state was 3.0 percent and for the nation was 2.6 percent."

So in other words....Orlando's wages - already horribly low - have actually fallen further behind other areas.  

That was BEFORE Disney announced 3,500 new jobs and Universal announced 3,000 new jobs.  Brings on this Starflyer thing....that should help!  And new parks in Disney and/or Universal.  

It's a race to the bottom. 

What do you propose we do then? Should we stop expanding the parks? 

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Per capita personal income is calculated as the personal income of residents of a given area divided by the resident population of the area. (that means every resident; working or not, retired, children, etc)

Personal income is the income received by all persons from all sources. Includes interest and dividend.

From the same press release you got your info… https://www.bea.gov/regional/bearfacts/pdf.cfm?fips=36740&areatype=MSA&geotype=4

Personal Income

In 2016, Orlando-Kissimmee-Sanford, FL (MSA) had a personal income of

$98,062,011*. This personal income ranked 34th in the United States and accounted for

8.3 percent of the state total. In 2006, the personal income of

Orlando-Kissimmee-Sanford, FL (MSA) was $68,125,569* and ranked 32nd in the

United States

 

Our disproportionate number of students and retirees contribute to our low per capita income as much as low wages do. Even so, year over year per capita income in Orlando has done very well in the past few years.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/ORLA712PCPI

Btw, I'm not questioning your numbers they are useful. However, they are only one indicator that may not paint a complete picture.

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38 minutes ago, AmIReal said:

Per capita personal income is calculated as the personal income of residents of a given area divided by the resident population of the area. (that means every resident; working or not, retired, children, etc)

Personal income is the income received by all persons from all sources. Includes interest and dividend.

From the same press release you got your info… https://www.bea.gov/regional/bearfacts/pdf.cfm?fips=36740&areatype=MSA&geotype=4

Personal Income

In 2016, Orlando-Kissimmee-Sanford, FL (MSA) had a personal income of

$98,062,011*. This personal income ranked 34th in the United States and accounted for

8.3 percent of the state total. In 2006, the personal income of

Orlando-Kissimmee-Sanford, FL (MSA) was $68,125,569* and ranked 32nd in the

United States

 

Our disproportionate number of students and retirees contribute to our low per capita income as much as low wages do. Even so, year over year per capita income in Orlando has done very well in the past few years.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/ORLA712PCPI

Btw, I'm not questioning your numbers they are useful. However, they are only one indicator that may not paint a complete picture.

In terms of per-capita income of the largest 50 U.S. metros, Orlando has been consistently rated either #49 or #50.   That is pretty well-established and we have discussed it quite a few times.   That is consistent with the #161 or #241 ranking of ALL U.S. MSAs.  There is simply NO way we could be ranked #34 among hundreds of MSAs nationwide, when we are #49 or #50 among the largest 50 metros.  It simply makes no sense.  

That "personal income" category you cite seems to be the GDP for the Orlando MSA.  If not, I honestly don't know what it is.  Nothing (even age of the population) would account for the difference between being ranked  #34 and #241.  

 

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Per capita figure takes Personal Income and divides by every person in the MSA based on the last mid year census estimate.

Personal Income takes all income earned by everyone and only divides by those that have earned an income. 

If you have a large number of the population that are not in the workforce (children, students, retirees and unemployed) then they drive down per capita number. We do not have a significantly high number of children or unemployed, but we do have a high number of students and retirees. We also have a slightly higher percentage of single, employed families which has a small effect.

 

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A more complete definition

Consists of the income that persons receive in return for their provision of labor, land, and capital used in current production as well as other income, such as personal current transfer receipts. In the state and local personal income accounts the personal income of an area represents the income received by or on behalf of the persons residing in that area. It is calculated as the sum of wages and salaries, supplements to wages and salaries, proprietors' income with inventory valuation (IVA) and capital consumption adjustments (CCAdj), rental income of persons with capital consumption adjustment (CCAdj), personal dividend income, personal interest income, and personal current transfer receipts, less contributions for government social insurance plus the adjustment for residence.

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1 hour ago, bqknight said:

What do you propose we do then? Should we stop expanding the parks? 

Yeah, Its all part of "I Am Reality's 5 ways to improve Orlando"

1) Stop Universal and Disney from expanding parks or hiring new people, it will only contribute to low wages. Infact, offer tax incentives to companies that fire workers making less then $15/hour, they're dragging us down and we should reward people who fire these workers, they're solving Orlando's biggest problem.

2) Implement a ban on new restaurants in the southwest side of town (attractions area). There is plenty of existing restaurants and some of them are struggling to stay in business, and the whole industry pays people poorly. People visiting Orlando should come to visit people working at tech jobs.

3) Halt the MCO expansion immediately. The airport reaching capacity will prevent additional people from getting to Orlando to spend their money at places that employ people with low wages, like restaurants and hotels.

4) Cancel the planned convention center expansion, we have plenty of conventions, and by sending away the conventions that bring in lots of tax dollars we should be able to spend more money on other things.

5) Beg for companies that chose to locate their HQ in another city to come to Orlando, tell them we're done with tourism so they don't need to worry about that anymore.

 

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25 minutes ago, AmIReal said:

A more complete definition

Consists of the income that persons receive in return for their provision of labor, land, and capital used in current production as well as other income, such as personal current transfer receipts. In the state and local personal income accounts the personal income of an area represents the income received by or on behalf of the persons residing in that area. It is calculated as the sum of wages and salaries, supplements to wages and salaries, proprietors' income with inventory valuation (IVA) and capital consumption adjustments (CCAdj), rental income of persons with capital consumption adjustment (CCAdj), personal dividend income, personal interest income, and personal current transfer receipts, less contributions for government social insurance plus the adjustment for residence.

The personal income for the Orlando MSA is $98 billion.  It is not divided by the number of residents or workers.  It is a cumulative (not PER CAPITA) figure. 

I used the GPD as an example. The local GPD was $121 billion in 2015 (the latest figures available). That ranked the Orlando MSA #31 in the U.S.  I have a feeling the personal income is something similar to GDP.

Even after reading your definition, I still don't understand what it is.  That is not your fault, of course.  But I don't get it.  The number is not divided by anything though. 

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52 minutes ago, aent said:

Yeah, Its all part of "I Am Reality's 5 ways to improve Orlando"

1) Stop Universal and Disney from expanding parks or hiring new people, it will only contribute to low wages. Infact, offer tax incentives to companies that fire workers making less then $15/hour, they're dragging us down and we should reward people who fire these workers, they're solving Orlando's biggest problem.

2) Implement a ban on new restaurants in the southwest side of town (attractions area). There is plenty of existing restaurants and some of them are struggling to stay in business, and the whole industry pays people poorly. People visiting Orlando should come to visit people working at tech jobs.

3) Halt the MCO expansion immediately. The airport reaching capacity will prevent additional people from getting to Orlando to spend their money at places that employ people with low wages, like restaurants and hotels.

4) Cancel the planned convention center expansion, we have plenty of conventions, and by sending away the conventions that bring in lots of tax dollars we should be able to spend more money on other things.

5) Beg for companies that chose to locate their HQ in another city to come to Orlando, tell them we're done with tourism so they don't need to worry about that anymore.

 

Judging by your post, you seem fine with the quality of local jobs.

I make no excuse for wanting better paying-jobs.   I quite honestly don't understand anyone who is satisfied with the current wage-situation.  Those people are acting against their own economic interests AND the interests of the community as a whole.  That makes no sense at all.

Why would anyone EVER not want better paying jobs here?  Does anyone seriously think Disney jobs pay better than Facebook or Amazon or Goldman Sachs or Alex Brown or The Carlyle Group or Blackstone or BlackRock or IBM or Oracle or Microsoft?  

Do we really think this is as good as it gets? 

Then why be so defensive about it?

Mediocrity really sucks. Unfortunately, we are not even average. 

Are you really alright with that?

Let's stop dumping $$$ into the lowest wage jobs possible.  

You are right, I don't give a damn about the size of the airport or the convention center.  I am not interested in hearing Orlando's name in the news because we have a large airport.  Really, who cares?  I can't even get to airport easily.  Do you think corporations are impressed by the size of the airport when they can't access it from downtown?  I've traveled a lot and have NEVER had a problem flying in or out of anywhere (except NYC, for obvious reason).  I don't care if the Orlando airport is the largest airport or the #10 or #50.  No one is impressed and no one cares.

Same for the convention.  I don't get off on hearing about the size of it.  Few people do.

The airport & convention center only reinforce low-wage jobs.  

Spend the money to bring higher-wage jobs. We can make our own economic priorities that are independent of Disney or Universal.   They don't get the keys to the kingdom, with the crappy low-paying jobs.  We can say no to them.  Do you know what would happen if we are less accommodative to the theme parks?  Probably nothing.  If Universal or Disney does decide to build a proposed theme park designed for Orlando elsewhere, so be it.  No big loss. 

But if we get our priorities straight, we maybe able to attract a mid-sized corporate regional hub.  We might get a 1,000 jobs that have starting wages in the high 30s or 40s.  Those same workers may earn in the 70s or 80s in 20 years. 

We need to be smart and creative. We may have to overpay (incentive-wise) to bring good jobs in.  That is fine...it is necessary to reach critical-mass.  

But do something different.  The status quo isn't working. 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, I am Reality said:

Judging by your post, you seem fine with the quality of local jobs.

I make no excuse for wanting better paying-jobs.   I quite honestly don't understand anyone who is satisfied with the current wage-situation.  Those people are acting against their own economic interests AND the interests of the community as a whole.  That makes no sense at all.

Why would anyone EVER not want better paying jobs here?  Does anyone seriously think Disney jobs pay better than Facebook or Amazon or Goldman Sachs or Alex Brown or The Carlyle Group or Blackstone or BlackRock or IBM or Oracle or Microsoft?  

Do we really think this is as good as it gets? 

Then why be so defensive about it?

Mediocrity really sucks. Unfortunately, we are not even average. 

Are you really alright with that?

Let's stop dumping $$$ into the lowest wage jobs possible.  

You are right, I don't give a damn about the size of the airport or the convention center.  I am not interested in hearing Orlando's name in the news because we have a large airport.  Really, who cares?  I can't even get to airport easily.  Do you think corporations are impressed by the size of the airport when they can't access it from downtown?  I've traveled a lot and have NEVER had a problem flying in or out of anywhere (except NYC, for obvious reason).  I don't care if the Orlando airport is the largest airport or the #10 or #50.  No one is impressed and no one cares.

Same for the convention.  I don't get off on hearing about the size of it.  Few people do.

The airport & convention center only reinforce low-wage jobs.  

Spend the money to bring higher-wage jobs. We can make our own economic priorities that are independent of Disney or Universal.   They don't get the keys to the kingdom, with the crapty low-paying jobs.  We can say no to them.  Do you know what would have if we are less accommodative to the theme parks?  Probably nothing.  If Universal or Disney does decide to build a proposed theme park designed for Orlando elsewhere, so be it.  No big loss. 

But if we get our priorities straight, we maybe able to attract a mid-sized corporate regional hub.  We might get a 1,000 jobs that have starting wages in the high 30s or 40s.  Those same workers may earn in the 70s or 80s in 20 years. 

We need to be smart and creative. We may have to overpay (incentive-wise) to bring good jobs in.  That is fine...it is necessary to reach critical-mass.  

But do something different.  The status quo isn't working. 

 

 

 

You never answered my question. "Spend more money to bring higher-wage jobs" is the ONLY thing you said to my point - and it's a silly point. I'm fairly certain Orlando is trying to bring in high wage jobs. 

Now what to do with Disney and Universal? How do you propose we say "no" to them? They can't expand? They can't feed us TONS of tax dollars that Orlando would severely miss? Tons of people should just be out of a job, instead of having a job that pays them something?

YOU keep missing the point of what we all keep saying. Yes - we would LOVE for more high-wage jobs to come to Orlando. I'd venture to say a good bunch of us would like the lower paying jobs wage to be raised. However - the parks and ALL of the hospitality jobs and businesses it brings to this city is a NET positive, not a negative.

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2 minutes ago, bqknight said:

You never answered my question. "Spend more money to bring higher-wage jobs" is the ONLY thing you said to my point - and it's a silly point. I'm fairly certain Orlando is trying to bring in high wage jobs. 

Now what to do with Disney and Universal? How do you propose we say "no" to them? They can't expand? They can't feed us TONS of tax dollars that Orlando would severely miss? Tons of people should just be out of a job, instead of having a job that pays them something?

YOU keep missing the point of what we all keep saying. Yes - we would LOVE for more high-wage jobs to come to Orlando. I'd venture to say a good bunch of us would like the lower paying jobs wage to be raised. However - the parks and ALL of the hospitality jobs and businesses it brings to this city is a NET positive, not a negative.

$1+ billion is going to the Convention Center?  Do you think you could attract a quality company with 1/10 of that?  I can tell you (with the exception of Amazon), local and state incentive-packages are not huge for most business relocation.  

I have seen it - and AmIReal posted - some incentives packages. A typical package is maybe $10 million for 200-300 jobs. 

Give Magic Leap $200 million and they would move here overnight. They are in suburban Plantation and have no deep roots as a newer company. 

I posted something yesterday...200 new jobs at SAS in Raleigh will have an estimated $500 million impact on the state economy. 

These jobs have multiplier effects.  

It sickens me to give more $ to the Convention Center.  Same old crap, same old result.

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8 minutes ago, I am Reality said:

$1+ billion is going to the Convention Center?  Do you think you could attract a quality company with 1/10 of that?  I can tell you (with the exception of Amazon), local and state incentive-packages are not huge for most business relocation.  

I have seen it - and AmIReal posted - some incentives packages. A typical package is maybe $10 million for 200-300 jobs. 

Give Magic Leap $200 million and they would move here overnight. They are in suburban Plantation and have no deep roots as a newer company. 

I posted something yesterday...200 new jobs at SAS in Raleigh will have an estimated $500 million impact on the state economy. 

These jobs have multiplier effects.  

It sickens me to give more $ to the Convention Center.  Same old crap, same old result.

I have to agree with this...

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10 minutes ago, I am Reality said:

$1+ billion is going to the Convention Center?  Do you think you could attract a quality company with 1/10 of that?  I can tell you (with the exception of Amazon), local and state incentive-packages are not huge for most business relocation.  

I have seen it - and AmIReal posted - some incentives packages. A typical package is maybe $10 million for 200-300 jobs. 

Give Magic Leap $200 million and they would move here overnight. They are in suburban Plantation and have no deep roots as a newer company. 

I posted something yesterday...200 new jobs at SAS in Raleigh will have an estimated $500 million impact on the state economy. 

These jobs have multiplier effects.  

It sickens me to give more $ to the Convention Center.  Same old crap, same old result.

You mean the convention center that brings in tons of money into the Orlando economy? 

That money has multiplier effects. 

Also - correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t that Orange County money? Not Orlando money? I’d have no problem not using ALL that money for the convention center. 

Anyway, what about the theme parks? That seems to be your main concern. I’m sure they get deals but our government doesn’t run them. 

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13 minutes ago, orlandouprise said:

i think a portion of the CC money SHOULD go to incentivizing companies to relocate high paying jobs here.

That money comes from TDT, the enabling legislation for collecting it is very narrow in defining what it can be used for. In fact, there have been bills over the last several sessions looking to expand the use to things like roads and emergency services that tourists use, but residents pay for.

Here are the uses (emphasis my own.) 
 

Quote

 

(a) All tax revenues received pursuant to this section by a county imposing the tourist development tax shall be used by that county for the following purposes only:

1. To acquire, construct, extend, enlarge, remodel, repair, improve, maintain, operate, or promote one or more:
a. Publicly owned and operated convention centers, sports stadiums, sports arenas, coliseums, or auditoriums within the boundaries of the county or subcounty special taxing district in which the tax is levied;
b. Auditoriums that are publicly owned but are operated by organizations that are exempt from federal taxation pursuant to 26 U.S.C. s. 501(c)(3) and open to the public, within the boundaries of the county or subcounty special taxing district in which the tax is levied; or
c. Aquariums or museums that are publicly owned and operated or owned and operated by not-for-profit organizations and open to the public, within the boundaries of the county or subcounty special taxing district in which the tax is levied;
2. To promote zoological parks that are publicly owned and operated or owned and operated by not-for-profit organizations and open to the public;
3. To promote and advertise tourism in this state and nationally and internationally; however, if tax revenues are expended for an activity, service, venue, or event, the activity, service, venue, or event must have as one of its main purposes the attraction of tourists as evidenced by the promotion of the activity, service, venue, or event to tourists;
4. To fund convention bureaus, tourist bureaus, tourist information centers, and news bureaus as county agencies or by contract with the chambers of commerce or similar associations in the county, which may include any indirect administrative costs for services performed by the county on behalf of the promotion agency; or
5. To finance beach park facilities or beach improvement, maintenance, renourishment, restoration, and erosion control, including shoreline protection, enhancement, cleanup, or restoration of inland lakes and rivers to which there is public access as those uses relate to the physical preservation of the beach, shoreline, or inland lake or river. However, any funds identified by a county as the local matching source for beach renourishment, restoration, or erosion control projects included in the long-range budget plan of the state’s Beach Management Plan, pursuant to s. 161.091, or funds contractually obligated by a county in the financial plan for a federally authorized shore protection project may not be used or loaned for any other purpose. In counties of fewer than 100,000 population, up to 10 percent of the revenues from the tourist development tax may be used for beach park facilities.

 

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37 minutes ago, smileguy said:

That money comes from TDT, the enabling legislation for collecting it is very narrow in defining what it can be used for. In fact, there have been bills over the last several sessions looking to expand the use to things like roads and emergency services that tourists use, but residents pay for.

Here are the uses (emphasis my own.) 
 

 

Well there you have it...the tourism lobby has a vice-grip on the money. 

We give the tourism industry everything its wants.   In return, we have to fight for every little scrap. 

If I were in the tourism industry, I wouldn't want better paying jobs locally either. 

It's good to be king. 

 

 

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Here's the thing. . . Companies don't want to pay high wages. You can have lots of jobs and low wages, or you can have high paying jobs with high demand skills. 

How about we focus on education and incubation of the skills vs. just saying over and over "we need more high paying jobs" ad nauseam.  If we take our local assets such as UCF, the research parks near UCF and Lake Nona, along with coding and video schools downtown, and expand on that. . . Guess what, you have a high-skill workforce that drives wages up and companies want to locate their headquarters here suddenly because there is a high supply of talented people to grow their bottom line.  More companies move in, wages go up, revenue comes in, city gets better, gravity happens, growth happens, and development happens. 

It's not as simple as lets get a bunch of good companies to come in here and pay people a lot of money.  How about we train our locals first to attract those companies instead of trying to incentivize them to come here carpetbagging and bring in talent from the outside that will just drive up the cost of living and rent for the people who already live here. 

Edited by dcluley98
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