Economic Development

[spenser1058]

Developer Jim Heistand notes downtown towers in less demand than suburban office buildings:

https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2020/11/11/expert-demand-for-local-office-space-dead.html?ana=maz

From OBJ

[spenser1058]

Before the bottom dropped out due to COVID, Florida was #1 in new residents, even beating out Texas and California. When you think how about how much larger those states are in area, it gets a little scary:

https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2020/12/03/us-census-an-estimated-601-611-people-moved-to.html

From Jacksonville Business Journal 

Edited December 7, 2020 by spenser1058

[spenser1058]

Goldman Sachs is the latest Wall Street financial giant to ponder a move to Florida. They seem to be looking at South Florida; Jacksonville also has a number of financial firms.

Is that a business Orlando should recruit?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/07/business/dealbook/goldman-sachs-florida.html?referringSource=articleShare

From The New York Times 

[orange87]

17 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

Goldman Sachs is the latest Wall Street financial giant to ponder a move to Florida. They seem to be looking at South Florida; Jacksonville also has a number of financial firms.

Is that a business Orlando should recruit?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/07/business/dealbook/goldman-sachs-florida.html?referringSource=articleShare

From The New York Times 

Not to be blunt, but are you kidding? This would be an absolute game changer if Orlando could nab Goldman Sachs! Could you imagine if they moved in to DTO? Our Downtown would gain global credibility overnight. Orlando should do anything and everything to nab them. But they'll likely go to South Florida where most of the businesses moving to Florida are going. I wish Central Florida could get a few of these northern billionaires and big companies instead of all of them moving just to South Florida.

[Uncommon]

14 hours ago, orange87 said:

Not to be blunt, but are you kidding? This would be an absolute game changer if Orlando could nab Goldman Sachs! Could you imagine if they moved in to DTO? Our Downtown would gain global credibility overnight. Orlando should do anything and everything to nab them. But they'll likely go to South Florida where most of the businesses moving to Florida are going. I wish Central Florida could get a few of these northern billionaires and big companies instead of all of them moving just to South Florida.

Agreed. No brained imo. Having a large reputable company downtown would do a lot for Orlando’s legitimacy as something other than a tourist hub, but more importantly, might encourage other companies to consider making Orlando a location for financial centers, thereby increasing wages and marketability.

[spenser1058]

My question comes as a result of financial firms taking incentive money from the Tampa Bay Area in the ‘80’s and ‘90’s and then promptly leaving town once the incentives expired. I don’t know if governments have figured out a way around that yet.

As to locating downtown, Chase and the accounting firms we have seem to prefer the ‘burbs, especially Seminole County.

[jack]

2 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

My question comes as a result of financial firms taking incentive money from the Tampa Bay Area in the ‘80’s and ‘90’s and then promptly leaving town once the incentives expired. I don’t know if governments have figured out a way around that yet.

As to locating downtown, Chase and the accounting firms we have seem to prefer the ‘burbs, especially Seminole County.

The key is to get the state to pay the largest share. It is not likely that a firm will leave the state compared to leaving a county. And they county/city should have collected more in tax revenue compared to what was given back to tax rebate.

[AmIReal]

Just to clarify, Goldman has not mentioned Orlando. At this point we are not being considered as they are focused on north Miami. Also, this is not a full corporate move, but a possible relocation of one division- asset management. They started this process about 5 years ago, relocating divisions to lower priced real estate markets like Dallas and SLC, actively trying to reduce their costs.

[spenser1058]

Is MiamiLand better than Fantasyland? Maybe it’s time to ask a different question:

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/opinion/scott-maxwell-commentary/os-prem-op-miami-vs-orlando-tourism-ads-scott-maxwell-20201216-n33tnerap5hyfjcftq6q67wsue-story.html

From The Sentinel 

[spenser1058]

Here’s one of the problems folks don’t think about when they see nothing wrong with letting the tourism industry grow as big as they desire here in Orlando.

There’s only about a 4% difference in residents with a bachelor’s degree between Nashville and Orlando right now, which doesn’t seem like a big deal.

The problem is that difference shows up in rankings with Nashville about #75 and Orlando about #130.

If you’re looking at those rankings to determine where your firm should relocate and you need a workforce with the skills a graduate would have, it’s quite easy to drop Orlando from your list because of those numbers. You might never dig into the stats and find there’s a disproportionate number of folks without college concentrated around the tourist district and a relatively high number of graduates in other parts of the metro.

Now, if we continue to add more and more theme parks and other tourism-related development that attracts thousands of workers with a relatively low educational attainment, our numbers will continue to be diluted.

It’s rarely fair but perception is reality. Even though we have an absolutely incredible number of students earning degrees within a 100-mile radius, those numbers can’t compete with the tens of thousands of low-paying jobs not requiring a degree if we keep growing the tourism industry locally.

We simply have to start moving in a different direction. As we’ve seen this year, any time there’s an economic, natural or other catastrophe, our current economic mix is simply devastated.

Edited December 17, 2020 by spenser1058

[spenser1058]

You KNOW things have gotten out of hand when the folks in Volusia County, of all places, are feeling sorry for Orlando: 

“Fortunately, Volusia doesn't depend on tourism nearly as much as it did just a few years ago as the economy has diversified. You want to see hard times, try Orlando where tourism makes up about 40% of the economy or Las Vegas where it probably is even more.” - Cecil Brumley, Business Briefs

From Hometown News Volusia 

 

[JFW657]

5 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Here’s one of the problems folks don’t think about when they see nothing wrong with letting the tourism industry grow as big as they desire here in Orlando.

There’s only about a 4% difference in residents with a bachelor’s degree between Nashville and Orlando right now, which doesn’t seem like a big deal.

The problem is that difference shows up in rankings with Nashville about #75 and Orlando about #130.

If you’re looking at those rankings to determine where your firm should relocate and you need a workforce with the skills a graduate would have, it’s quite easy to drop Orlando from your list because of those numbers. You might never dig into the stats and find there’s a disproportionate number of folks without college concentrated around the tourist district and a relatively high number of graduates in other parts of the metro.

Now, if we continue to add more and more theme parks and other tourism-related development that attracts thousands of workers with a relatively low educational attainment, our numbers will continue to be diluted.

It’s rarely fair but perception is reality. Even though we have an absolutely incredible number of students earning degrees within a 100-mile radius, those numbers can’t compete with the tens of thousands of low-paying jobs not requiring a degree if we keep growing the tourism industry locally.

We simply have to start moving in a different direction. As we’ve seen this year, any time there’s an economic, natural or other catastrophe, our current economic mix is simply devastated.

That's pretty unlikely I think.

I'm pretty sure there are firms who specialize in doing that kind of research and crunching the numbers for other companies looking to relocate or expand into various markets.

Any company that is too lazy to do a thorough job of researching an area they are considering doing business in when there are potential profits at stake, probably wouldn't stay in business very long anyway.

Orlando has a pretty solid reputation and owes the vast majority of it's notoriety to the tourism industry.

Almost sounds like you're suggesting Orlando/Orange County should stop allowing our theme parks to expand and stop allowing any new tourism related business to open. 

1 hour ago, spenser1058 said:

You KNOW things have gotten out of hand when the folks in Volusia County, of all places, are feeling sorry for Orlando: 

“Fortunately, Volusia doesn't depend on tourism nearly as much as it did just a few years ago as the economy has diversified. You want to see hard times, try Orlando where tourism makes up about 40% of the economy or Las Vegas where it probably is even more.” - Cecil Brumley, Business Briefs

From Hometown News Volusia 

That must be why they tried to turn Daytona Beach into Disney World. 

[spenser1058]

Meanwhile, metro Orlando continues to lead the state on unemployment:

https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2020/12/18/orlando-november-unemployment-dropped-still-worst.html?ana=maz

From OBJ

 

Let’s double down on the industry that keeps getting us in this mess, right?

 

Something else to think about as these episodes keep devastating our tourism-dependent economy. In the 20th century, WDW almost never closed due to weather events like hurricanes.

 

In the 21st century, we’ve seen several closures for weather. If, as many studying the issue believe, climate change is likely to intensify these storms, we’re likely to see more, not fewer, closures in the years ahead. Putting all our eggs in the tourism basket is not the answer.
 

[orange87]

On 12/17/2020 at 3:14 PM, JFW657 said:

That must be why they tried to turn Daytona Beach into Disney World. 

It's an improvement over the impoverished, blighted, sketchy, homeless meth addict filled city it's been for years.

[JFW657]

1 hour ago, orange87 said:

It's an improvement over the impoverished, blighted, sketchy, homeless meth addict filled city it's been for years.

I liked the old slightly seedy Daytona Beach better.

Some people might enjoy hanging out on an oceanfront where all the cool old mom & pop hotels that gave the place character have been demolished to make room for a bunch of sterile, concrete and glass highrises, but not me.

[orange87]

Wyndham Destinations acquires Travel + Leisure brand and related assets, changes name

Timeshare giant Wyndham Destinations is expanding its product offerings and getting a new name.

Orlando-based Wyndham (NYSE: WYND) acquired the Travel + Leisure brand and related assets, including its membership travel clubs business, from Des Moines, Iowa-based media giant Meredith Corp. (NYSE: MDP) for $100 million. As a result, the parent company name will change from Wyndham Destinations to Travel + Leisure Co. and have a new ticket symbol — NYSE: TNL — starting in mid-February. 

This will result in the newly-named Travel + Leisure Co. to have three business divisions: the Travel + Leisure travel clubs segment; Panorama, the division overseeing the company's exchange, membership and technology segments; and the existing timeshare division that will keep the Wyndham Destinations brand.

Article: https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2021/01/06/wyndham-destinations-to-rebrand-with-this-deal.html?cx_testId=40&cx_testVariant=cx_11&cx_artPos=3#cxrecs_s

Edited January 7, 2021 by orange87

[orange87]

Disney may move some of its California divisions to Orlando, sources say

The Walt Disney Co., owner and operator of Walt Disney World and the largest employer in Central Florida, is in talks to relocate some of its office divisions from its headquarters in California to Lake Nona, a master-planned community in southeast Orlando, Orlando Business Journal has learned. 

Sources with knowledge of the deal tell OBJ nothing has been signed, and it isn't clear which Disney divisions (NYSE: DIS) or how many people would move to Lake Nona. The discussions come as many big-name California firms like Hewlett Packard Enterprise (NYSE: HPE) in recent months have revealed relocations to Southeastern cities, which are seen as more business- and tax-friendly.

Article: https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2021/01/08/disney-may-move-some-la-divisions-to-orlando.html?cx_testId=40&cx_testVariant=cx_11&cx_artPos=0#cxrecs_s

Orange County tourist tax collections up in November for 7th straight month

Orange County tourist tax collections continued to recover in November, although they were down significantly compared to the same month in 2019.

The county collected $8.77 million during November, up from $7.7 million in October. Tax collections have improved for seven months straight since hitting historic lows in April due to the Covid-19 pandemic's devastating negative impact on tourism and travel. However, collections were down 66% from November 2019's total of $25.5 million. 

Orange County's tourist development tax is collected on hotel, motel and other short-term rental sales, and is used to fund tourism-related needs.

Article: https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2021/01/07/orange-county-tourist-tax-collections-november.html?cx_testId=40&cx_testVariant=cx_11&cx_artPos=8#cxrecs_s

[spenser1058]

16 minutes ago, orange87 said:

Disney may move some of its California divisions to Orlando, sources say

The Walt Disney Co., owner and operator of Walt Disney World and the largest employer in Central Florida, is in talks to relocate some of its office divisions from its headquarters in California to Lake Nona, a master-planned community in southeast Orlando, Orlando Business Journal has learned. 

Sources with knowledge of the deal tell OBJ nothing has been signed, and it isn't clear which Disney divisions (NYSE: DIS) or how many people would move to Lake Nona. The discussions come as many big-name California firms like Hewlett Packard Enterprise (NYSE: HPE) in recent months have revealed relocations to Southeastern cities, which are seen as more business- and tax-friendly.

Article: https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2021/01/08/disney-may-move-some-la-divisions-to-orlando.html?cx_testId=40&cx_testVariant=cx_11&cx_artPos=0#cxrecs_s

I think OBJ is jumping the shark here. It sounds more like a shot across the bow for Gov. Newsom.

Having said that, I’ve long believed we should have done everything possible to move anything related to parks and resorts to Florida, including Imagineering. Now that the China parks are mostly complete, there’s more of a case for it.

Several of the top execs running the parks division have been Orlando-based although I don’t think that’s currently the case.

If it does happen, the only advantage in Lake Nona is its proximity to MCO. Otherwise, I would think something on WDW property would make sense, although there has been discussion about moving Casting and Team Disney cast and execs further from I-4 to maximize the highway footage for guest (I.e., revenue-producing) areas.

If, in fact, Brightline is built with a Disney station, having that access might be advantageous for a build on property. Of course, Bob Iger may be best golfing buds with whoever’s running Tavistock these days, so who knows.

It will be fun to watch in any event.

Edited January 8, 2021 by spenser1058

[orange87]

5 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

I think OBJ is jumping the shark here. It sounds more like a shot across the bow for Gov. Newsom.

Having said that, I’ve long believed we should have done everything possible to move anything related to parks and resorts to Florida, including Imagineering. Now that the China parks are mostly complete, there’s more of a case for it.

Several of the top execs running the parks division have been Orlando-based although I don’t think that’s currently the case.

If it does happen, the only advantage in Lake Nona is its proximity to MCO. Otherwise, I would think something on WDW property would make sense, although there has been discussion about moving Casting and Team Disney cast and execs further from I-4 to maximize the highway footage for guest (I.e., revenue-producing) areas.

If, in fact, Brightline is built with a Disney station, having that access might be advantageous for a build on property. Of course, Bob Iger may be best golfing buds with whoever’s running Tavistock these days, so who knows.

It will be fun to watch in any event.

I also think moving the ESPN headquarters from CT to Florida would also be a smart move money-wise and for the sake of having Disney's assets closer to each other.

Edited January 9, 2021 by orange87

[spenser1058]

4 minutes ago, orange87 said:

I also think moving the ESPN headquarters from CT to Florida would also be a smart move money-wise and for the sake of having Disney's assets closer to each other.

Economically, you’re right, but I suspect there would be pushback from the talent not wanting to stray too far from NYC. That turned out to be a major sticking point with our plans to become Hollywood East in the ‘90’s (along with being outbid by Canada and Georgia, but that’s another story).

[dcluley98]

Jump the Gun vs. Jump the Shark. . . 

Jump the Gun - A metaphor for making a premature move or false start. In the case of "jump the gun," meaning "to act before the permitted or appropriate time," the gun in question is . . . a starting pistol, a small revolver used to fire blanks to signal the start of a race, particularly a foot race. To "jump the gun" in this literal context means to step across the starting line, either accidentally or on purpose, before the gun actually fires, thereby gaining an advantage, even if literally only momentarily, over the other runners. 

Jump the Shark - An idiom used to describe the moment of a misguided attempt at generating new publicity for something once, but no longer, widely popular. The phrase is a pejorative that insinuates the subject matter is past its peak and on the downslide to relative obscurity.  The phrase entered lexicon from the 1977 Happy Days episode "Hollywood, Part 3" in which Henry Winkler's "Fonzie" character, once the epitome of cool, was depicted in a scene jumping over a shark while water-skiing.  This gimmick was scene as a signal that the writers and producers of Happy Days had run out of ideas for the main storylines in the series and were stretching for absurd and desperate ways to garner attention and reach the former zenith of popularity. The usage of "jump the shark" has subsequently broadened beyond television, indicating the moment when a brand, design, franchise, or creative effort's evolution declines, or when it changes notably in style into something different and unwelcome. 

 

Edited January 9, 2021 by dcluley98

[spenser1058]

I chose “jump the shark” because of OBJ’s reputation for posting material that so often goes nowhere such as their slavish devotion early on to VMC.

If it were, say, the Sentinel, I would have been more inclined to use “jump the gun” because it would be simply a matter of something that could happen but hasn’t happened yet.

[spenser1058]

As to whether we should expect this to happen or not, I note that Theme Park Insider hasn’t picked up on it yet.

Webmaster Robert Niles usually is interested in these types of stories but he was also trained as a journalist and doesn’t usually pick these stories up until there’s some actual substance behind them.

That leads me to believe this is more of a prod to Gov. Newsom than an actual thing. If it changes, I’ll post ASAP because this would be huge for us.

[jack]

1 hour ago, spenser1058 said:

As to whether we should expect this to happen or not, I note that Theme Park Insider hasn’t picked up on it yet.

Webmaster Robert Niles usually is interested in these types of stories but he was also trained as a journalist and doesn’t usually pick these stories up until there’s some actual substance behind them.

That leads me to believe this is more of a prod to Gov. Newsom than an actual thing. If it changes, I’ll post ASAP because this would be huge for us.

I would not be surprised if they are seriously looking at it. California is struggling right now with Covid and it really exposed long term issues that have not been addressed. If you do not have to be in California, why bother. Disney could mostly work out of the east coast and their business would not suffer. 

Austin seems to be the winner so far for large scale companies relocating. 

[spenser1058]

Seminole County looks at a “mobility fee “ to replace its road impact fee which has been mostly unchanged since 1995:

Seminole looks at mobility fee to pay for new roads, sidewalks, trails
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/seminole-county/os-ne-seminole-county-roads-mobility-fees-20210125-gywwvipckje2zhvx7toqx5pdde-story.html

From The Sentinel