Economic Development

[HankStrong]

This thing hit HOT TOPIC and I couldn't help but check it out.  Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!

You folks need to just let him talk to himself here.  You can't fix this.  @AmIReal I see why with that name selection (and the timing) people thought you were a troll... but I get where you're coming from in your rebuttal.  I'll admit I have little interest in anything except the humor in this thread, so I just skimmed your lengthy replies  They do seem reasonably worded, but I think this person is just pit bull'd onto fighting this imaginary battle.

I'm reminded of the various argumentative fallacies  (https://writingcenter.unc.edu/tips-and-tools/fallacies/ does a pretty good job explaining them) when I see these drawn out battles where someone absolutely MUST win their battle at every turn. 

[AmIReal]

aent, don’t sell Florida short on our tech industry. Florida has the 4^th (some surveys say 3^rd) highest number of science and technology workers in the country. It makes sense because we are the 3^rd most populous state. Regardless, we have a lot of tech workers in this state and Orlando, as you would expect has the 3^rd highest number of them (behind Miami and Tampa).

The problem, as many people see it, is we have a disproportionate number of what is termed as Leisure and Hospitality employees. There are actually several positives with this, but I promised previously to not drone on… so I won’t. Just to reiterate Florida has a huge (or Yuge) base of tech workers and is growing rapidly.

HankStrong, you’re right, I’m not funny. Now that I think about it I should have chosen that as my user name. I do however enjoy the funny people on this forum- except the 7-11 jokes. I don’t enjoy the back and forth bickering and hope to not participate… better to be in the mud than of the mud.

I again apologize for the wordiness of my previous post. It was the bourbon talking.

[jgardnerucf]

What is your convenience store of choice in the core?

[AmIReal]

I generally avoid convenience stores except to rarely buy a lotto and get called sweetie by Bonnie.

[aent]

4 hours ago, AmIReal said:

aent, don’t sell Florida short on our tech industry. Florida has the 4^th (some surveys say 3^rd) highest number of science and technology workers in the country. It makes sense because we are the 3^rd most populous state. Regardless, we have a lot of tech workers in this state and Orlando, as you would expect has the 3^rd highest number of them (behind Miami and Tampa).

The problem, as many people see it, is we have a disproportionate number of what is termed as Leisure and Hospitality employees. There are actually several positives with this, but I promised previously to not drone on… so I won’t. Just to reiterate Florida has a huge (or Yuge) base of tech workers and is growing rapidly.

HankStrong, you’re right, I’m not funny. Now that I think about it I should have chosen that as my user name. I do however enjoy the funny people on this forum- except the 7-11 jokes. I don’t enjoy the back and forth bickering and hope to not participate… better to be in the mud than of the mud.

I again apologize for the wordiness of my previous post. It was the bourbon talking.

I think I oversimplified my thought on the local tech industry. I am a computer scientist by profession, and needless to say am friends with many of them. And Orlando does have a very strong tech community with a lot of the top people in the field locally. From the top of my head, I know the company next do to where I used to work developed TouchID that was bought by Apple, a lot of the DVD/Blu ray disk technology with the lasers was developed in Orlando with UCF/CREOL, which is one of the top institutes of its kind, UCF/FIEA has recently been ranked the top gaming graduate degree in the country, and Full Sail has shown a lot of success with its students as well, and has been doing great things attracting some entertainment companies here as well (such as all the WWE stuff, and I don't know if its still the case as I don't care for wrestling at all, but I think some the smaller leagues (TNA I think?) were filmed here as well).  We have a lot of niche areas within tech where we are top in the country. Considering all this, perhaps our biggest problem is the lack of investors or entrepreneurs in the area or the lack of the startup culture, I'm not really sure. The other thing is our companies get bought out by out of state firms, and they never keep the HQ here when they do that, if they stay here at all. Maybe our local investors/entrepreneurs just prefer to invest in the tourism because they know that works well, I'm not sure.

 

My previous essay of a post (as long as yours) was on the topic of the positives of the leisure/hospitality employees. And I think "I am reality" needs to accept that the reality is they are an important part of our economy, even if it lowers our average wage, and they help to improve the quality of life for those living in Orlando. And the people working at Disney/Universal, for the most part, absolutely love their jobs, even if they are not high wage. We don't have the problem of low wage jobs people hate. We got low wage jobs people love. We need to encourage Universal's 4th and 5th new park, thats sure to mean Billions in new spending in Orlando. We need to figure out a way to take that strength and convert it into more high tech jobs, use that tax money and resource more effectively.

 

[AmIReal]

That, aent, was brilliant. I could expound, but could not improve.

[popsiclebrandon]

Well this is bad. Don't know how they get through this with the losses they already pile up and stock continuing to decline. Really sucks because I know a bunch of people there and they seem to enjoy it.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/brinkmann-on-business/os-bz-izea-stock-implodes-20180403-story.html

[bqknight]

1 hour ago, popsiclebrandon said:

Well this is bad. Don't know how they get through this with the losses they already pile up and stock continuing to decline. Really sucks because I know a bunch of people there and they seem to enjoy it.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/brinkmann-on-business/os-bz-izea-stock-implodes-20180403-story.html

Was pretty far into the interview process there late last year but ended up dropping out and taking a job elsewhere. Happy I did now...

[I am Reality]

The Tampa Bay Times published an interesting interview with the Hyperloop CEO.

My take-away:

(1) The technology already exists. The biggest roadblock is regulatory.

(2) The system is designed to have very low operational costs.l, making it more economically feasible.

(3) The CEO envisions not charging for rides (!!!). He suggested other ways the company can monetize it (services like massages or doctor's visits).

If this thing actually gets built, it will kill the Brightline.  And hopefully there will be a downtown stop so locals can use it more easily.

[bqknight]

17 minutes ago, I am Reality said:

The Tampa Bay Times published an interesting interview with the Hyperloop CEO.

My take-away:

(1) The technology already exists. The biggest roadblock is regulatory.

(2) The system is designed to have very low operational costs.l, making it more economically feasible.

(3) The CEO envisions not charging for rides (!!!). He suggested other ways the company can monetize it (services like massages or doctor's visits).

If this thing actually gets built, it will kill the Brightline.  And hopefully there will be a downtown stop so locals can use it more easily.

Although Orlando - Miami was a "winning" route - this is NO WHERE near ready.

The technology doesn't really exist yet. It does in an early form - but not in a production ready - fully working form. 

It's a PR fluff piece. 

[dcluley98]

Additionally, the "winning" route location from Hyperloop One never went downtown.  It went up through the center of the state along the US 27 corridor, then up I-4 and the 417 directly to the Airport. Not that this is a formal planned route, but nobody has ever mentioned hyperloop connecting to downtown. 

[HankStrong]

Hyperloop is an amazing technology.  I'm not sure how or if it will ever happen, but man is it cool.

The odd part is that about 8-10 companies are all working on it at once.   The Tampa article was with HTT (Hyperloop Transportation Technologies) which is one of the main 3 companies with real money and stuff happening.  The other two being Virgin Hyperloop One (can we call it VH1?) and TransPod, which is the main Canadian player.  I think VH1 is out-distancing them all by leaps and bounds at this point (personal opinion) but even they are only at 1/3 to 1/2 the speeds they are saying this can do.  Late last year they hit 387kph (about 240mph) which is fast, but not more than a regular maglev train daily use speed.  The maglev record is something like 600kph/375mph?   They are saying Hyperloop can do 1000kph to 1200kph at least theoretically.

So, the tech is definitely NOT there, but it will be at some point.

 

Also HTT must be the only one talking about not charging for rides because VH1 and TP haven't in any of the blogs I've read. 

The Miami-Orlando route would be epic, but calling it a winning route is definitely a stretch because there isn't anything to win yet.  However, I saw the same route dcluley mentioned.  It didn't go anywhere close to downtown.

[I am Reality]

Interesting story about the Amazon HQ2 "contest" in today's Baltimore Sun.  The article lists the incentive packages from the finalists:

Montgomery Co, MD - $8.5 billion in tax and infrastructure incentives

Newark:  $7 billion 

Philly: $2 to $3 billion & possible property

Columbus: $2.3 billion 

Chicago: $2 billion 

Atlanta:  $1 billion 

LA: Up to $1 billion 

Denver: $100 million or more

Austin: None from city; state incentives unknown 

Nashville: None from city; state incentives unknown

NYC:  None from city; state incentives unknown 

Toronto:  None

The rest (Boston, Dallas, Indianapolis, Miam, N Virginia, Pittsburgh, D.C. & Raleigh):  No details known.

I would be very curious to know what Orlando's incentives package was.  I hope we offered a comparable package (w/the exception of Montgomery Co, Newark and possibly Philly). I personally think an incentives package up to $2 billion or a bit more would have been appropriate (given the huge impact it bring).  But that is just my opinion.

Today's Charlotte Observor has an article about why Charlotte didn't make Amazon's Top 20.  The consensus there is that Charlotte lacks higher education opportunities.

Finally, I wonder if Trump's recent attacks on Amazon and its stock decline have perhaps changed Amazon's plans.  While still massive, the company is bleeding right now.

 

[prahaboheme]

35 minutes ago, I am Reality said:

 

Finally, I wonder if Trump's recent attacks on Amazon and its stock decline have perhaps changed Amazon's plans.  While still massive, the company is bleeding right now.

 

Trump is attacking Amazon because it's CEO also owns the Washington Post.  Trump would like nothing more than to have the Post shutdown.

Amazon is very much a brick & mortar business and its health does not hinge on the fluctuations of Wall Street or the president.

Facebook, on the other hand, could be in legitimate decline.

[I am Reality]

Orlando is one of 8 cities getting a team in the Alliance of American Football.  The coach will be Steve Spurrier. Few other details are known right now.

Interested to know...Is this a good or bad thing?  Orlando is the largest metro without an NFL team.  Does strong support for the new team help Orlando get an NFL team?  Or would the NFL not want an in-town competitor?  The new league is not calling itself a minor league.

[prahaboheme]

48 minutes ago, I am Reality said:

Orlando is one of 8 cities getting a team in the Alliance of American Football.  The coach will be Steve Spurrier. Few other details are known right now.

Interested to know...Is this a good or bad thing?  Orlando is the largest metro without an NFL team.  Does strong support for the new team help Orlando get an NFL team?  Or would the NFL not want an in-town competitor?  The new league is not calling itself a minor league.

With its ratings in the gutter, I wouldn't suspect that the NFL is expanding anytime soon. 

Florida already has 3 NFL teams. There simply isn't a market for another one.

[orlandouprise]

i honestly would try to go after an NHL team. i know the  lightning are really close but I think we can move the panthers north.  The solar bears have had good support lately as well.

[AmIReal]

Regarding the Amazon incentive package, you can see what Orlando presented to Amazon here http://blog.orlandoedc.com/blog/orlando-amazon-hq2-proposal It is a 5 part download and the “Economics” section of the “regional” component is redacted. That section would have included the State incentives. You can see the City/ County specific incentives though. They totaled nearly $500,000,000 in land, credits, exemptions, rebates, etc.

The State has not yet released any details- they say it is due to Miami still being in the running. However, if you look at the incentives the State has to offer https://www.flgov.com/financial-incentives/ and you do the math based on the numbers Amazon provided in the RFP then you could conclude a total incentive package well over $1billion. That is not bad when you consider that a little over a year ago the State Legislature was trying to eliminate all incentives.

If you have interests in the State’s past performance on incentives, go here- http://www.floridajobs.org/docs/default-source/reports-and-legislation/2017-annual-incentives-report.pdf?sfvrsn=4  Scroll down to page 23 if you just want the bottom line numbers. And if you want to see the type of incentives other states can offer in general, look here http://www.blsstrategies.com/florida-incentives

I am Reality, I think you’ll like this WaPo article regarding the 20 cities in the running.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/business/amazon-hq2-tech-cities/?utm_term=.80867d295118

And I dig this map and data of the remaining 20 http://mediamaps.esri.com/AmazonHQ2_USFinalists/index.html

[I am Reality]

Pfizer announced it's new global HQ - The Spiral - will start construction in NYC in June.  It's 1k+ feet tall.  It had a landscaped terrace that winds up to the top.

This has nothing to do with Orlando.  Just thought it was super cool.

[dcluley98]

That is super-cool. I really like the green roof designs. I will be looking forward to see what the CSP deck with the Hotel Restaurant looks like. In the renderings, they showed a lot of trees on it. It would be very cool to have some Green-Roof or planter-based real trees on the deck overlooking the DPAC plaza!  And to be able to see them on the side of the building as you drive into town on I-4. 

[smileguy]

4 hours ago, I am Reality said:

Pfizer announced it's new global HQ - The Spiral - will start construction in NYC in June.  It's 1k+ feet tall.  It had a landscaped terrace that winds up to the top.

This has nothing to do with Orlando.  Just thought it was super cool.

Cool, maybe, but not very practical. While its possible to grow trees at that height, its very resource intensive and basically anything you're doing is just working to delay the death of the plants for a little while. Here's a good breakdown on this phenomenon. 

https://www.archdaily.com/346374/can-we-please-stop-drawing-trees-on-top-of-skyscrapers


 

[spenser1058]

WFTV updates plans for Universal and a fourth park, which we already knew. What's important for our purposes here is the confirmation that, increasingly, the design phase for theme parks is  taking place in Orlando. That's a spinoff business which is definitely not minimum wage.

It's also Urban Econ 101: we're seeing a clustering effect of an industry (theme park/attraction design in this case) arising in a specific city because of a unique competence we have. It's something that won't happen in Austin or Philly because we've spent 50 years developing the talent and technology. We should do everything possible to provide incentives for companies like Birket in WG to grow right here.

http://amp.wftv.com/www.wftv.com/news/local/universal-studios-adding-major-new-attractions-to-its-orlando-theme-park/730208844?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=rare-america&utm_campaign=o-media

From Channel 9/WFTV

Edited April 11, 2018 by spenser1058

[HankStrong]

Sorry Spencer! No one here makes more than $9/hr .  No one.  Not one single person except John Morgan.  Fake news!  Oh thank heaven, Hank out.

[spenser1058]

For the People!

[I am Reality]

29 minutes ago, HankStrong said:

Sorry Spencer! No one here makes more than $9/hr .  No one.  Not one single person except John Morgan.  Fake news!  Oh thank heaven, Hank out.

How do I respond to someone who keeps pretending like he blocked me?

Multiple times.

Let me give it a try...

I'd bet I make 2-3X what you make and I live in an affluent area.

I don't live in a bubble though.

And I don't turn a blind eye to less fortunate people.

Ignore the many, many low-wage local residents struggling just to get by.

Make a joke about it.

Count the number of floors on buildings or the height of a freaking highway.

Because that is what matters in life. 

Shame on you. 

Get your head right.