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jrs2

Orlando Extended Metro Developments (Volusia/Brevard/East Polk)

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An update from the News-Journal on "customary use" by the public of the beaches.

The good news is that Volusia and St. Johns (St. Augustine) are protected due to the grandfathering clause.

Flagler County (Flagler Beach) is attempting to jump in under the gun. No word in the article on Brevard.

http://www.news-journalonline.com/news/20180414/flagler-scrambles-to-protect-beach-access

One of the compelling features of our Central Florida beaches has always been nearly unfettered public access. Let's hope that continues.

Edited by spenser1058

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While on the topic of beach access, that brings up the point of Daytona's seeming inability to get it right.

And it starts right at the beach. Daytona's nickname (which, perhaps appropriately, they don't even bother to use in ads anymore) is "The World's Most Famous Beach."

And it was. Much wider than most, plus the fact that, unlike 99.9999% of US beaches, you could drive on it. If you look at pictures of the beach over the past 75 years or so,it was the cars on the beach that usually stood out.

Whether you think of that as a Joe Six Pack thing or go back to the days it was rich guys racing their expensive cars on the hard packed sand (which, btw, differentiates it from Charlotte's NASCAR myth of evolving from good ol' boys running 'shine through the hollows), it was something that was uniquely Daytona (well, it spilled over into several adjoining towns, but you get the point.)

So, of course, what do they do? Put up ugly poles to keep you from driving on the beach!

Now, the catalyst for all that was to "save the turtles," but as someone who has volunteered for turtle watch at NSB over the years, I can tell you that's normally not an issue in the middle of the day. So, cut off night driving as required and train the beach patrol to be on the lookout as required during the day with jurisdiction to close the beach as necessary. 

Truth is, the whole turtle thing was an excuse for a bunch of grumpy old folks who wanted the beach to themselves (just as Hard Rock is now trying to do the same thing with the excuse of taking the resort upscale.) Sorry, but just as Nashville is famous for country music and Orlando is famous for its theme parks, Daytona's brand is wide beaches with cars. And no matter how much the Belle Meade folks would rather be the "Athens of the South than "Music City" and how much the Winter Park crowd would rather be known for their lakeside mansions than for Mickey and Harry, the rest of the world knows us for something different.

Just like Nashville finally embraced country music and boomed, it's time for all of Orlando to embrace its #1 industry and for Daytona to recognize its uniquely American bubbacentric cars on the beach.

As once said of LA, "Hollywood didn't make LA - the aerospace industry did. Hollywood made LA interesting."

There are infinite numbers of cities competing for industries and growth. The interesting ones are the ones that win.

Jacksonville was originally the center of the nascent film industry (bet you didn't know that). But the town fathers decided they were too wild and too unChristian- why couldn't they settle down and act like real business folk? So, they pulled back the welcome mat and sent the industry scurrying for SoCal. Which town do people know about today? Jax or LA?

As in most things, embrace your strengths.

 

Edited by spenser1058

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Spenser,

Unfortunately what we are tied to brings wealth for a tiny few and minimum wage jobs for the majority, whereas those other cities are tied to real wealth generators. Country Music may seem like hillbillies and banjos to a few but its far from that as it bring wealth, glitz and glam to Nashville that Orlando will never have if we stick to rollercoasters and toddlers. 

The only way that Orlando city proper can  benefit from the tourist money is to have a direct pipeline (access) to tourists such as a Sunrail line from I-drive and the Parks to DT. Then tourists can shop, eat, discover the rest of ORL. That will never happen because the tourism industry wants to trap and hold people hostage on their properties and the thought of them wandering around DT spending disposable income makes them gag. The industry that we are tied to is only 1-sided.

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Minor point: Nashville didn't embrace Country Music. It embraced guys from Pennsylvania with tats and backwards baseball caps singing about trucks and beer to a soft rock beat.

Yeah, I'm a little bitter.

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4 minutes ago, Dale said:

Minor point: Nashville didn't embrace Country Music. It embraced guys from Pennsylvania with tats and backwards baseball caps singing about trucks and beer to a soft rock beat.

Yeah, I'm a little bitter.

The good news is the Nashville Sound pays the bills but the studio musicians still play the real deal at night when they're off work. (For that matter, they play rock too. Heck, even Janis Ian lives there. That's the amazing part.)

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15 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Jacksonville was originally the center of the nascent film industry (bet you didn't know that). But the town fathers decided they were too wild and too unChristian- why couldn't they settle down and act like real business folk? So, they pulled back the welcome mat and sent the industry scurrying for SoCal. 

I knew about that.

Read about it years and years ago.

Guess it's lucky they went to Hollywood though.

Jacksonville doesn't have any large hills to put a giant HOLLYWOOD.... er... JACKSONVILLE sign on.

2 hours ago, orlandouprise said:

Spenser,

Unfortunately what we are tied to brings wealth for a tiny few and minimum wage jobs for the majority, whereas those other cities are tied to real wealth generators. Country Music may seem like hillbillies and banjos to a few but its far from that as it bring wealth, glitz and glam to Nashville that Orlando will never have if we stick to rollercoasters and toddlers. 

The only way that Orlando city proper can  benefit from the tourist money is to have a direct pipeline (access) to tourists such as a Sunrail line from I-drive and the Parks to DT. Then tourists can shop, eat, discover the rest of ORL. That will never happen because the tourism industry wants to trap and hold people hostage on their properties and the thought of them wandering around DT spending disposable income makes them gag. The industry that we are tied to is only 1-sided.

What percentage of Nashvillians do you think make big bucks from the country music industry? About the same percentage of Los Angelinos who make big bucks in the TV and film industry? Or the same percentage of Orlandoans who make big bucks in the tourist industry?

I'd say it's a pretty small percentage in all those places.

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1 hour ago, Dale said:

Minor point: Nashville didn't embrace Country Music. It embraced guys from Pennsylvania with tats and backwards baseball caps singing about trucks and beer to a soft rock beat.

Yeah, I'm a little bitter.

Nashville was the country music capital of the world waaayyyy before this current crop of phony balonies hijacked the genre and took it over.

As far back as the 1940's and 50's The Grand Ole Opry was broadcasting real country western music live from the Ryman Auditorium in downtown Nashville, on radios all over the Southeast.

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19 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

Nashville was the country music capital of the world waaayyyy before this current crop of phony balonies hijacked the genre and took it over.

As far back as the 1940's and 50's The Grand Ole Opry was broadcasting real country western music live from the Ryman Auditorium in downtown Nashville, on radios all over the Southeast.

Yep, there used to be such a thing as Country Music. Now there's just Hip-Hop and Californians taught to sing in fake twang.

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36 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

Jacksonville doesn't have any large hills to put a giant HOLLYWOOD.... er... JACKSONVILLE sign on.

JACKSONVILLELAND

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40 minutes ago, Dale said:

Yep, there used to be such a thing as Country Music. Now there's just Hip-Hop and Californians taught to sing in fake twang.

I think they call it Hick Hop.

I gotta admit I did kinda like that Cowboy Troy "I Play Chicken With The Train" thing, though.

All the hicks and chicks feel the flow
Big black train coming round the bend
Go on kin folk tell your mom and them
Chugg a lugga, chugg a lugga, chugg a lugga
Who? The big black neck commin' through to you boy you done fell and bumped you head, uh huh
That's what they said
People say it's impossible, not probable, too radical
But I already been on the CMA's
Hell Tim McGraw said he liked the change
That he likes the way my hick-hop sounds and the way the crowd screams when I stomp the ground
Now, big and black, clickty-clack and I make the train jump the track like that
 
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8 hours ago, orlandouprise said:

Spenser,

Unfortunately what we are tied to brings wealth for a tiny few and minimum wage jobs for the majority, whereas those other cities are tied to real wealth generators. Country Music may seem like hillbillies and banjos to a few but its far from that as it bring wealth, glitz and glam to Nashville that Orlando will never have if we stick to rollercoasters and toddlers. 

The only way that Orlando city proper can  benefit from the tourist money is to have a direct pipeline (access) to tourists such as a Sunrail line from I-drive and the Parks to DT. Then tourists can shop, eat, discover the rest of ORL. That will never happen because the tourism industry wants to trap and hold people hostage on their properties and the thought of them wandering around DT spending disposable income makes them gag. The industry that we are tied to is only 1-sided.

Orlando already benefits from the tourist money. The city's largest taxpayer is... Universal.

The Amway Arena, DPAC, the Citrus Bowl, all in the core, were built with TDT funds.

Major gifts to the non-profits in the city are given every year not only by Disney and Universal but hotelier Harris Rosen is all but adopting Parramore as his own.

All those downtown towers full of law firms and accountants? Take a look at how many of them have clients in the southwest quadrant.

Linton Allen, head of First National Bank at Orlando (today's SunTrust), said, "Build your community and you build your bank."  It was First, along with people like the Sentinel's Martin Andersen, that did everything possible to bring Walt here in the first place. Where are those businesses located? Downtown.

Orlando has ALWAYS been decentralized from its inception. In fact, it's only because of Jacob Summerlin's sleight-of-hand trick that Orlando was even the county seat.

I've probably lived, worked and played in Downtown Orlando as long or longer than anyone else on this board. Did you know more people live in Downtown Orlando than Downtown Nashville? In fact, more people live in our downtown than live in the downtowns of all but a handful of sunbelt cities. Amazing how that's possible if, as some maintain, tourism is sucking the life out of the city.

There's a whole branch of urban economics today  that specializes in the impact of airports on communities (just as cities used to grow by access to ocean ports, rivers or railroads, today it's an effective airport that determines success.) OIA is punching well above its weight for cities our size when it comes to easy connections. That exists because of our tourism industry.

One other thought: I hope all of you will share with me how all of the estates and McMansions in Bay Hill, Isleworth, Windermere and "Millionaire's Row" in Dr. Phillips (which make Orange County one of the top 50 US counties in number of millionaires) can exist if everyone is making minimum wage? I suppose it could all be out of towners but then Windermere is known as "Vista Way for the execs" because so many salaried Disney folks live there. I'm well above minimum wage and I haven't been able to get one of those mortgages yet (not that I'd want to, I prefer downtown.)

That's not even counting all the similar housing in places like Winter Park, Sweetwater and Heathrow in Seminole County which are mostly untouched by tourists.

 

 

 

 

Edited by spenser1058
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15 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

One other thought: I hope all of you will share with me how all of the estates and McMansions in Bay Hill, Isleworth, Windermere and "Millionaire's Row" in Dr. Phillips (which make Orange County one of the top 50 US counties in number of millionaires) can exist if everyone is making minimum wage?

I think you're describing an oligarchy...

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2 hours ago, alex said:

I think you're describing an oligarchy...

Income inequality has been a problem throughout US history and is particularly acute today. The thing that is missed in Orlando is that, relative to cities like Atlanta, Miami, New Orleans or most larger northeastern cities, we don't have the level of entrenched poverty that has gone on for generations. Because there are a plethora of entry-level jobs (and the largest employers even offer maids and janitors benefits like health care), there is a path upward. 

We used to have relatively affordable housing as well but that has become a challenge that we need to work on.

The schools our working poor attend are better than most inner-city systems and our community college has been named the best in the country more than once. i have opposed Lexus Lanes and supported free education through college for years, as I know what it means to be working poor. But Orlando provides more opportunities for those without the silver spoon than most metros our size or larger.

I might add that both the president of WDW and CEO of Publix began as entry level workers at their respective firms, a good sign for two of our largest Fortune 500 companies in the region.

Edited by spenser1058
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Spencer,

That being being said...any chance Rosen loves Parramore and DT so much that he and his buddies allow a SunRail or Lightrail line to connect with I-drive/Parks?

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44 minutes ago, alex said:

I think you're describing an oligarchy...

That is not an oligarchy.  It is income disparity.  Very different

As for anyone claiming the Orlando offers more opportunity than elsewhere, please read the articles I cited.

The local press, national media, the Disney picketers, economic experts, and the local residents on public assistance have pretty clearly weighed in on this topic.

Again, Universal jobs have a $13.34/hr AVERAGE wage, per the Sentinel. That includes the local middle-level managers, engineers, creative experts and executives.  

$13.34/hr does not pay the bills.  Period.

As for local real estate, the southwest side of town has a well-deserved reputation for foreign investment (particularly from Latin America and Europe).  Winter Park is more local-owned and is small relative to the rest of the area. 

Edited by I am Reality

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2 hours ago, orlandouprise said:

Spencer,

That being being said...any chance Rosen loves Parramore and DT so much that he and his buddies allow a SunRail or Lightrail line to connect with I-drive/Parks?

The light rail system that was to be constructed with funds from the Clinton administration that would have had access to I-Drive/Disney was torpedoed by a Republican County Commission and the funds are with Dale's Lynx Line in Charlotte. It will likely take another grant from the feds before we get another shot like that. Fortunately, the County Commission is likely to be more amenable this time around due to changing demographics.

Edited by spenser1058

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2 hours ago, I am Reality said:

That is not an oligarchy.  It is income disparity.  Very different

As for anyone claiming the Orlando offers more opportunity than elsewhere, please read the articles I cited.

The local press, national media, the Disney picketers, economic experts, and the local residents on public assistance have pretty clearly weighed in on this topic.

Again, Universal jobs have a $13.34/hr AVERAGE wage, per the Sentinel. That includes the local middle-level managers, engineers, creative experts and executives.  

$13.34/hr does not pay the bills.  Period.

As for local real estate, the southwest side of town has a well-deserved reputation for foreign investment (particularly from Latin America and Europe).  Winter Park is more local-owned and is small relative to the rest of the area. 

In order to not drag this thread too far off topic, I responded to the bold text portion of your post in the Economic Development thread over in The Coffee House.

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5 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

i have opposed Lexus Lanes

Studies have shown that the so called "Lexus Lanes" are used disproportionately by the lower and middle class, many have theorized because they're most at risk of getting fired for being a few minutes late to their job as a result of traffic, most higher end jobs don't care so much if you're 10-15 minutes late, especially on occasion. And when the question is paying an extra toll or the road or being late to work and losing their job, they're glad the Lexus Lanes are there.

The other thing is the express lanes also generally speed up the general use lanes quite a bit. Express lanes with the variable toll pricing to make sure they remain in a flowing condition are able to carry many more vehicles per hour then any lanes that are heavily congested, and that means many less people will be trying to use those congested lanes, resulting in a higher average speed.

I-95 in Miami showed it really was a win-win for everyone. Since they just converted the HOV lanes into express lanes, they didn't really increase the capacity of the roadway, but the average speed increased for both  drastically vs before the express lanes were built. The difference in speed for those not paying the toll and paying it only averaged 9mph, so its not a huge difference. The express lanes really turned out to be a win for everyone.

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I watched a nice presentation on the Miami lanes at a work conference (of all places, because that wasn't what the conference was about) and it was basically stated that they had HOPED it would be a success, but were actually surprised it was so successful.  I've driven through Miami several times before and after this change and I personally like the express lane change.

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7 hours ago, HankStrong said:

I watched a nice presentation on the Miami lanes at a work conference (of all places, because that wasn't what the conference was about) and it was basically stated that they had HOPED it would be a success, but were actually surprised it was so successful.  I've driven through Miami several times before and after this change and I personally like the express lane change.

If memory serves, they were also surprised at how successful Tri-Rail has been...same corridor...

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7 hours ago, jrs2 said:

If memory serves, they were also surprised at how successful Tri-Rail has been...same corridor...

Yup, and if memory serves me right, the intention of the (new at the time) stations being built was to be temporary while I-95 was completely revamped, and the decision to make them permanent (and rebuild them to that nature) came after construction was being completed on 95 and ridership didn't disappear.

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Sometimes if you give people something useful that makes their lives easier, they appreciate it.  SOMETIMES.

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