Orlando Extended Metro Developments (Volusia/Brevard/East Polk)

[jrs2]

On 3/24/2018 at 1:23 PM, prahaboheme said:

By all means, Daytona should already be the premier central Florida beach town, rivaling south Florida and the gulf coast beaches in terms of development and investment. 

It already is and always has been.  Larger than Cocoa, NSB, etc. Look at the beachside development that's there and been there.  It always has been the premier (Spring Break) beach town and one of the most urbanized and developed.  All you've got are condos and apartments buildings not just on A1A, but along the Intracoastal as well, and many of the older ones have been renovated.   City of Daytona, Ormond, OBS, Shores, Wilbur, Ponce- that whole strip has everything.

You'll get the snobs that think it's seedy and physically dirty compared to Gulf Coast beaches; it's called the Atlantic and, like Cocoa and NSB, the beach grade is gradual so that the waves break more than they do in Ft. Lauderdale and Miami, whose waters are more calm.  Same with Tampa Bay beaches.  The Gulf is tame.  It's geography.

See my other post about the seedy factor. 

The thing about Daytona is that, it's not a city near the beach with a tourist strip that's Disneyesque on the beach- like Hilton Head, while it's downtown is technically on the mainland, the urbanized portion since the early 1900's is the beachside.  That's the difference.  Atlantic Bank built their bank tower in the 1970's 3 blocks from A1A, not in Daytona's CBD.

Where DB got a major black eye was when The City told MTV and BET to take a hike in the '90's.  Even so, development still continued.  The Ocean Center has been expanded since then, a new PAC was built on the Intracoastal (News Journal Center), DAB built a new terminal in the '90's that is being renovated in spite of being stifled by OSI, The Hiilton (Marriott) expanded, the Wyndham and Ocean Walk were built, and lots of condos were built up and down A1A in DB, DBS, Ponce, etc., and the building boom saw many major projects built even on the Intracoastal- over the past 20 years.  The other black eye was the building bust- but, regardless of all the empty lots along the beach, there were dozens of projects that did get built on A1A.

And, a lot of the former hotels that were failing got converted and managed by timeshare companies.  Also, other failing hotels have been scooped up by major hotel brands; They dot A1A from Ormond to DBS.  That is telling more than anything; consumer confidence from the major hotel flags' presence there.  

All of this is before Hard Rock Hotel opened up a couple of weeks ago and Protogroup announced their mega project which is u/c on A1A (it's in this thread).  And before Cocina 214 & Jimmy Buffet's  Landshark opened up just south of US-92 on the beach.

But, Miami Beach is a different animal.  Sunny Isles exploded in no small part as a result of investments by Trump in the 2000's.  When you have that kind of "clout" pumping money it attracts other investors.  Daytona didn't have that in the 2000's.  Miami is just too big and always will be and is on it's own plane of existence.

But if you take Miami Beach and Sunny Isles out of the equation, sans maybe Ft. Lauderdale I don't think there is a beach as developed as Daytona in Florida.  I did a comparison on Skyscrapercity over a decade ago about this.

[JFW657]

I always felt that the seediness of DB was part of its charm. 

I liked it better before they built those big, glitzy hotels between the pier and the bandshell. 

It used to have a kind of Coney Island or Atlantic City atmosphere.

Now it's just beginning to feel like another plastic I-Drive.

I wish they'd have left it alone.

[prahaboheme]

3 hours ago, jrs2 said:

It already is and always has been.  Larger than Cocoa, NSB, etc. Look at the beachside development that's there and been there.  It always has been the premier (Spring Break) beach town and one of the most urbanized and developed.  All you've got are condos and apartments buildings not just on A1A, but along the Intracoastal as well, and many of the older ones have been renovated.   City of Daytona, Ormond, OBS, Shores, Wilbur, Ponce- that whole strip has everything.

You'll get the snobs that think it's seedy and physically dirty compared to Gulf Coast beaches; it's called the Atlantic and, like Cocoa and NSB, the beach grade is gradual so that the waves break more than they do in Ft. Lauderdale and Miami, whose waters are more calm.  Same with Tampa Bay beaches.  The Gulf is tame.  It's geography.

See my other post about the seedy factor. 

The thing about Daytona is that, it's not a city near the beach with a tourist strip that's Disneyesque on the beach- like Hilton Head, while it's downtown is technically on the mainland, the urbanized portion since the early 1900's is the beachside.  That's the difference.  Atlantic Bank built their bank tower in the 1970's 3 blocks from A1A, not in Daytona's CBD.

Where DB got a major black eye was when The City told MTV and BET to take a hike in the '90's.  Even so, development still continued.  The Ocean Center has been expanded since then, a new PAC was built on the Intracoastal (News Journal Center), DAB built a new terminal in the '90's that is being renovated in spite of being stifled by OSI, The Hiilton (Marriott) expanded, the Wyndham and Ocean Walk were built, and lots of condos were built up and down A1A in DB, DBS, Ponce, etc., and the building boom saw many major projects built even on the Intracoastal- over the past 20 years.  The other black eye was the building bust- but, regardless of all the empty lots along the beach, there were dozens of projects that did get built on A1A.

And, a lot of the former hotels that were failing got converted and managed by timeshare companies.  Also, other failing hotels have been scooped up by major hotel brands; They dot A1A from Ormond to DBS.  That is telling more than anything; consumer confidence from the major hotel flags' presence there.  

All of this is before Hard Rock Hotel opened up a couple of weeks ago and Protogroup announced their mega project which is u/c on A1A (it's in this thread).  And before Cocina 214 & Jimmy Buffet's  Landshark opened up just south of US-92 on the beach.

But, Miami Beach is a different animal.  Sunny Isles exploded in no small part as a result of investments by Trump in the 2000's.  When you have that kind of "clout" pumping money it attracts other investors.  Daytona didn't have that in the 2000's.  Miami is just too big and always will be and is on it's own plane of existence.

But if you take Miami Beach and Sunny Isles out of the equation, sans maybe Ft. Lauderdale I don't think there is a beach as developed as Daytona in Florida.  I did a comparison on Skyscrapercity over a decade ago about this.

I completely agree. For all the investment that has already occurred and for its history, I just think we should expect more from Daytona.  It certainly has the bones to be a great beach.

[JFW657]

51 minutes ago, prahaboheme said:

I completely agree. For all the investment that has already occurred and for its history, I just think we should expect more from Daytona.  It certainly has the bones to be a great beach.

If by "great beach" you mean having everything that once comprised its own unique  identity, scrubbed away and replaced with sterile, generic new development, I'd say it's well on the way. 

[jrs2]

9 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

If by "great beach" you mean having everything that once comprised its own unique  identity, scrubbed away and replaced with sterile, generic new development, I'd say it's well on the way. 

Yeah, you know, all of those Bandshell related coquina rock structures that they tore down...  there were several Art Deco-ish motels across the street on Ocean Ave.  They tore them down too for the Marriott, and for a failed new Boardwalk resort that fizzled- but not before they razed everything between the Marriott and Main Street just north of streetside businesses along main.  Shame...

[jrs2]

another view of the entertainment complex with HQ Building behind it.  too bad they didn't build that building in downtown Daytona...

[Dale]

Although it seems the Brown and Brown building is going to look a little like it and also a tad taller.

[spenser1058]

Both of them remind me of the old Daytona Beach Federal (DBF) building that was downtown from the 50's-60's.

[AmIReal]

In early March the News Journal did a very good in-depth look at the beach side, specifically focused on the blighted west side of A1A. They walked the ten mile stretch to count vacant properties and found at least 213. The 2nd part pointed out many positives that are occurring. The article highlights many of the same improvements jrs2 has mentioned.

http://gatehousenews.com/a1a/home/site/news-journalonline.com#holes

http://gatehousenews.com/a1a/home/site/news-journalonline.com#successes

and the final recommendations of the  beachside redevelopment committee were published yesterday.

https://www.volusia.org/core/fileparse.php/6081/urlt/BRC_Recommendations_Draft_03-19-18.pdf

All of the above content is long, but if you have an interest in Volusia/ DB they are worthwhile reads.

[spenser1058]

Sad to see (but hardly shocked) that Gov. Scott has signed a bill into law which is likely to restrict public access to some Florida beaches.

One of the fundamental things that has always made Florida special has been free access to its beaches, making long strolls a major feature of a visit. That contrasts with many states that allow private control of the beach almost to the water.

Thankfully, Volusia and Brevard have long championed "customary use" policies with local ordinances which will be grandfathered to protect public access across a wide stretch of beach. More on this after I check with the folks at, ummmm, SOB (Sons Of the Beach) and others to see if our Central Florida beaches will stay free and clear to everyone.

http://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/rick-scott-just-signed-a-bill-that-could-make-many-of-floridas-beaches-private-10231813

From Miami New Times

[JFW657]

1 hour ago, spenser1058 said:

Sad to see (but hardly shocked) that Gov. Scott has signed a bill into law which is likely to restrict public access to some Florida beaches.

One of the fundamental things that has always made Florida special has been free access to its beaches, making long strolls a major feature of a visit. That contrasts with many states that allow private control of the beach almost to the water.

Thankfully, Volusia and Brevard have long championed "customary use" policies with local ordinances which will be grandfathered to protect public access across a wide stretch of beach. More on this after I check with the folks at, ummmm, SOB (Sons Of the Beach) and others to see if our Central Florida beaches will stay free and clear to everyone.

http://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/rick-scott-just-signed-a-bill-that-could-make-many-of-floridas-beaches-private-10231813

From Miami New Times

It was reported several times on the local news recently, that they have allowed the new Hard Rock Hotel in Daytona Beach to block beach driving access behind their property. The pilings are already in place.

[spenser1058]

Beach driving, while worrisome, is a slightly different issue (one of which I've been painfully straddling the fence on for years.)

So far, at least, although your drive may be curtailed, no one is trying to limit pedestrian access to the  full beach.

[jrs2]

14 hours ago, JFW657 said:

It was reported several times on the local news recently, that they have allowed the new Hard Rock Hotel in Daytona Beach to block beach driving access behind their property. The pilings are already in place.

 

 

So, when the Westin was looking to  redo the Desert Inn, they wanted beach access restricted.  The City voted it down.  Then Westin said they would still move forward, but that the property would not be as luxury as originally planned.  Then the deal with Westin fell through.  Then, Hard Rock could sell enough units at the proposed tower south of 92.  Then, Hard Rock made a deal with the  Desert Inn people.  And, no beach driving in front of it.  Interesting.

[spenser1058]

More on the Hard Rock closure of the beach to vehicles:

http://www.news-journalonline.com/news/20180406/oops-car-blocking-poles-behind-hard-rock-too-far-apart

From the News-Journal

It seems they can't count.

Also, for all the attempts to go upscale, this episode just demonstrates the powers that be don't understand much about what Daytona's brand should be.

I want to explore more about how a community where John D. Rockefeller once lived and whose start in auto racing came from rich guys speeding in fancy cars on the beach devolved into Bubbaland and how the attempt at rebuilding managed to throw out both strands of Daytona's past in order to build a concrete jungle that is mostly soulless.

[jrs2]

12 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

More on the Hard Rock closure of the beach to vehicles:

http://www.news-journalonline.com/news/20180406/oops-car-blocking-poles-behind-hard-rock-too-far-apart

From the News-Journal

It seems they can't count.

Also, for all the attempts to go upscale, this episode just demonstrates the powers that be don't understand much about what Daytona's brand should be.

I want to explore more about how a community where John D. Rockefeller once lived and whose start in auto racing came from rich guys speeding in fancy cars on the beach devolved into Bubbaland and how the attempt at rebuilding managed to throw out both strands of Daytona's past in order to build a concrete jungle that is mostly soulless.

Wow!  What you said...^^

[orlandouprise]

16 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

More on the Hard Rock closure of the beach to vehicles:

http://www.news-journalonline.com/news/20180406/oops-car-blocking-poles-behind-hard-rock-too-far-apart

From the News-Journal

It seems they can't count.

Also, for all the attempts to go upscale, this episode just demonstrates the powers that be don't understand much about what Daytona's brand should be.

I want to explore more about how a community where John D. Rockefeller once lived and whose start in auto racing came from rich guys speeding in fancy cars on the beach devolved into Bubbaland and how the attempt at rebuilding managed to throw out both strands of Daytona's past in order to build a concrete jungle that is mostly soulless.

+1,000,000,000

[spenser1058]

The Jantzen diving girl that had been a Broadwalk icon since 1965, is no more. Yet another step in the sterilization of all the things that made Daytona's beachside interesting.

http://www.news-journalonline.com/news/20180412/lane-diving-girl-sign-boardwalk-landmark-since-1960s-is-gone

From the News-Journal

[JFW657]

The damned misguided fools who run things in Daytona Beach have effectively destroyed the city's past and scrubbed away virtually all vestiges of the charm that used to make the place remotely interesting.

In it's place, they've created a sterile, wholesome & family friendly, beach side version of Disney World.

[spenser1058]

14 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

The damned misguided fools who run things in Daytona Beach have effectively destroyed the city's past and scrubbed away virtually all vestiges of the charm that used to make the place remotely interesting.

In it's place, they've created a sterile, wholesome & family friendly, beach side version of Disney World.

Daytona has tried so many times to figure it out. Remember Marco Polo Park?

http://www.news-journalonline.com/news/20170624/lane-marco-polo-park-50-years-ago-visionary-idea-epic-flop

From the News Journal

 Not to mention building a water park right next to the beach which has flirted with failure various times over the years.

[spenser1058]

Darn, now I have the jingle stuck in my head: "Get into the swim and come right in to Marco Polo Park..."

[JFW657]

I seem to vaguely recall something akin to Marco Polo in the vicinity.

Maybe I saw billboards for it on I-95 or something.

[spenser1058]

3 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

I seem to vaguely recall something akin to Marco Polo in the vicinity.

Maybe I saw billboards for it on I-95 or something.

It was on I95 north of Daytona at Old Dixie Highway (briefly renamed Marco Polo Park Blvd).

It's now Plantation Bay Country Club, I think.

[orlandouprise]

My dream scenario would be for NSB to become Alys Beach / Rosemary Beach. *sigh* and Daytona Beach to become Aventura

[jrs2]

14 hours ago, orlandouprise said:

My dream scenario would be for NSB to become Alys Beach / Rosemary Beach. *sigh* and Daytona Beach to become Aventura

It can, but you need the like of The Related Group, Trump, et al, to market the area and also attract higher end stuff.  Stores, restaurants, etc.  Daytona a a good Arts scene and always has.  Those players were mainly responsible for the explosion in Sunny Isles since 2000.  It’s partially hype driven.

[Dale]

Saw the headline that the sale of a house is complicating the Brown and Brown development. Article wouldn't load for me.

Seems like nothing comes easy for Daytona.