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Starwood Mixed Use Proposal

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41 minutes ago, zeppelin14 said:

Two things to add. A new Pilot article about the future of the MacArthur Mall where the mayor mentioned some possibilities to include a Target or Macy's as well as moving the food court to the 1st floor and getting rid of all of the brick that faces Monticello. The Starwood proposal is also mentioned:

https://pilotonline.com/business/consumer/article_135f1a0e-6056-11e9-b4f2-b7240962b419.html

 

And this seemed to slip by all of us. The former Freemason Inn is being redone. The adjacent building is already a new restaurant/bar called Four Eleven York and the bed and breakfast next door should reopen this spring:

https://pilotonline.com/distinction/food/article_b6ac320a-5e30-11e9-9401-0301e18092a1.html

It’s Jim Wofford, the mall’s manager, that’s being quoted in the article - not the mayor. Nice guy but I wouldn’t believe anything he says until there’s something to back it up. He said less than two years ago that he expected Nordstrom to stay and now he says he wasn’t surprised. 

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Hopefully the Starwood development starts soon, and they build something of height. I do like the idea of getting rid of all the brick and building a glass facade. It's a nice mall, but the brick always made it look so bulky IMO.

With Nordstrom being three-stories, how about Target on the ground floor, and Macy's taking the upper two?

Edited by BFG

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17 hours ago, BFG said:

Hopefully the Starwood development starts soon, and they build something of height. I do like the idea of getting rid of all the brick and building a glass facade. It's a nice mall, but the brick always made it look so bulky IMO.

With Nordstrom being three-stories, how about Target on the ground floor, and Macy's taking the upper two?

Yes. That would be awesome. I really feel like MacArthur was the spark for the downtown revival (at least that's what got me to start going back up there) and needs to continue to evolve and stay relevant. Moving the food court to the first floor would be great too.

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I'm not seeing how a Target survives in a space like that. At the end of the day, Target is still just a classy walmart in a lot of ways. I'm not sure we are at pedestrian mass to support a target there. Keep in mind, people still have to pay to park. I do not feel that way about Macy's though, but that is a different kind of shopping experience.

I like the idea of opening it up with glass, at least the 3 floor possibly if possible to like a Dave and Busters type of establishment with direct views of Monitcello and LRT station. This would do a few things, breathe life and interest to that area, show activity, provide unique style (which we are seriously lacking in Norfolk/DT) while not closing off other low style opportunities.  Think about it, that is a great space to add uniqueness Norfolk is definitely lacking... maybe a small lane bowling alley coupled with that Dave and Busters type thing? Its definitely enough room for it on one floor.

It maybe just me, but DT Norfolk seems more about eating and finding a place for beer. We need more interest down there.

Edited by brikkman
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Agreed. Outside of bars, clubs, and restaurants, the nightlife is hit or miss. A bowling alley/pool hall would do well there too. 

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21 hours ago, BFG said:

Agreed. Outside of bars, clubs, and restaurants, the nightlife is hit or miss. A bowling alley/pool hall would do well there too. 

The Circuit is supposed to open up on Granby soon. It's a lot like Pixels, the barcade that took over New Belmont's old space, 

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On 4/17/2019 at 2:09 PM, brikkman said:

I'm not seeing how a Target survives in a space like that. At the end of the day, Target is still just a classy walmart in a lot of ways. I'm not sure we are at pedestrian mass to support a target there. Keep in mind, people still have to pay to park. I do not feel that way about Macy's though, but that is a different kind of shopping experience.

I like the idea of opening it up with glass, at least the 3 floor possibly if possible to like a Dave and Busters type of establishment with direct views of Monitcello and LRT station. This would do a few things, breathe life and interest to that area, show activity, provide unique style (which we are seriously lacking in Norfolk/DT) while not closing off other low style opportunities.  Think about it, that is a great space to add uniqueness Norfolk is definitely lacking... maybe a small lane bowling alley coupled with that Dave and Busters type thing? Its definitely enough room for it on one floor.

It maybe just me, but DT Norfolk seems more about eating and finding a place for beer. We need more interest down there.

Oops I posted in retail section too but here in DC there is something called DC USA that is a big box mall of sorts that has a two story Target, Marshalls, Best Buy etc. I think honestly downtown and the west side of Norfolk have close to zero big name retail. Military Highway is the closest but think of the surrounding area and also Ghent, Larchmont, Park Place, Wards Corner and ODU that have no Target/Walmart type retail to speak of. As for Military, I would bypass that when I lived there because it is just awful.  The pay for parking could be brought down, especially after 6 pm. I dunno, I could see a Marshall's on the first floor and a two story Target on floors 2-3. Macy's is kind of past it but if Dillard's bails out maybe they can come into that spot, who knows. I definitely think high end retail is kind of ebbing, especially in markets like Norfolk so they would be better off making it a city big box place and focus on maybe brining in a few unique retailers that are cheap (Uinqlo and Zara) and yes get rid of kiddie land on the side of the mall that has great views and get some restaurants over there.

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Think about what Cordish did for waterside in short order for a sec! Did they really do anything revolutionary for real? In my opinion NOT AT ALL. Waterside represents governing body that does not have the correct ideas or depth to will the simplest high yield ideas. Cordish probably spent more time on crafting the deal with the city vs what they were actually going to do with the space, etc.. Years ago someone made a comment on this board to say that in the stretch that Fraim was mayor, overall he had done a lot. No doubt, but there is no true way to benchmark the true success during his tenure. All these years later we are just now seeing some real movement on Tidewater park and now we have this issue with the mall. Without some solid creative ideas Norfolk stands to rise in one regard and fall in others and that is unfortunate. I'm tired of seeing the same approaches like they always work. Its time to step their game up a little.  This space is another opportunity, lets see their final choice.

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Crabtree Mall in Raleigh has proposed this as part of their "remain viable" plan. It will be mixed use with hotel / office space and stand 30 floors. Now I've been to this mall and it's pretty suburban and would look out odd there but this would be a great proposal for Mac Mall.  The developers for this one have some challenges ahead since it's not zoned for such a building...so it may be cut in half or even less.  

 image.png.8a4dde40c144d01d845311bae21eeeed.png

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5 hours ago, Willy18 said:

Crabtree Mall in Raleigh has proposed this as part of their "remain viable" plan. It will be mixed use with hotel / office space and stand 30 floors. Now I've been to this mall and it's pretty suburban and would look out odd there but this would be a great proposal for Mac Mall.  The developers for this one have some challenges ahead since it's not zoned for such a building...so it may be cut in half or even less.  

 image.png.8a4dde40c144d01d845311bae21eeeed.png

Don't you ever post a picture like this in this thread again and make me think it's for us. :lol: My heart dropped. 

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3 hours ago, vdogg said:

Don't you ever post a picture like this in this thread again and make me think it's for us. :lol: My heart dropped. 

I had the same reaction I got all excited then all of it went away and turned to slight anger <_<

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That is a sweet design. We might need to send this to city council to give them some ideas.

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I guess I deserve the flogging, lol. Sorry about that. Just came across the proposal and thought it would look even better in a DT setting like ours.  I agree, someone should email this to city council.  

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That is new here. I like it but hope there is a good amount of storefronts on the ground floor.  Either way, hope this gets going soon.

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2 hours ago, 23320 said:

554272F1-B051-4690-AD13-92C7031F7A35.thumb.png.1b3b64ea18c3865ad4bdb7e086d17d9a.png

Came across a different rendering  that I don’t believe has been shared here. 

Where did this come from? Is it on a planning docket?

 

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1 hour ago, 23320 said:

WPA MACARTHUR 3RD ANCHOR PAD STUDY

No idea when it was put on this site so not sure if it’s up to date or a previous concept. 

This is extremely recent, as in, I was scrolling through their site a week or two ago and this wasn’t there.

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Much better use of the parcel than with the original design. Shows you just how tight it really is once you start planning the build-outs. I really like the pedestrian entry/courtyard set on the bias like this. Feels modern too. Hotel moved? It's better that it be attached to the mall like this. Great. Hopefully there is direct integration with the 2nd floor of the mall now. And if they relocate the food court to the 1st floor then perhaps we'll  even get 3rd floor access. Now we need an exciting "get" or three lol...in restaurant and retail for the ground level along the courtyard and street...and a 3rd floor reimagining...some experiential retail/dining/entertainment/rec. for the food court area and adjacent 4-6 movie rooms. 

Edited by baobabs727

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2 minutes ago, BFG said:

Apparently Starwood is in default on a $750M loan that includes MacArthur as collateral. I’m guessing this puts this particular project in jeopardy?

https://www.pilotonline.com/business/vp-bz-macarthur-center-loan-20191219-jmqhxxjgfjartgaesrr5sdmraa-story.html

Probably. Typical. The renaissance of a few years ago was fun while it lasted.

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