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Economic Development - Expansions and Relocations

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2 hours ago, mpretori said:

I was in Atlanta recently and it was horrible. Charlotte was a much more top tier city compared to Atlanta. :tw_smile:

Those are fighting words right there... :tw_angry:. Where exactly in Atlanta did you go for it to be "horrible".

 

2 hours ago, A2. said:

I will be there tomorrow and it’s horrid with respect to traffic. And remember the city of ATL is one tenth the population of their metro and that’s not a statistic to be proud of.  My wife is from Southern California and she has even commented that between our five years in ATL and then our fifteen in Charlotte, how much she appreciates the aesthetics of Charlottes  skyline versus the six mile string of buildings that Atlanta has. Ours is smaller for sure, but quite easy on the eyes. And let’s make no mistake in poking the bear. Atlanta is bigger and much more urban than Charlotte today, and I’m not looking to pick a fight. (They would crush us in any statistical measure). But we are building something in NC that will be the envy of any in the years to come. Bigger isn’t always better. The main thing is great transportation, cultural amenities, connectivity to neighborhoods, and density. We are working on it

While Atlanta being much smaller in population isn't exactly what I would call optimal/advantageous/desireable, you also cannot compare apples to oranges. Not to say that it can't be done, but Atlanta is at a great land disadvantage. You also have to include Emory. GA Tech, GSU, and all the other universities that add another 80,000-100,000 plus "residents" to the city.  In addition, Mecklenburg county is bigger than ANY county in all of Georgia which allows for much more cohesive planning. Here in Atlanta we have counties trying to steal companies from each other (cough cough Cobb and Gwinnet).

I would definitely agree that Charlotte has a MUCH better planning and growth model  (except for those monster parking decks) than Atlanta, but Charlotte now needs to focus on creating its own image. It's starting to get to the size where it isn't feeling like a smaller city to get away from the "crowdedness" of the bigger cities. As an example, I was on a roadtrip with friends and we wanted to stop in some locations along our way. Charlotte didn't  even make the top 5 because it didn't offer anything that we can't get in Atlanta in their eyes. Of course you have NASCAR, white water, etc. but it still didn't feel "unique" enough to the members in my party. 

In light of all of this, Charlotte has been doing amazing lately and I can't wait to see all of the new development in the area. Last summer I had the awesome opportunity to view the Uptown skyline from the top of the Mecklenburg county courthouse(I think that's what it was) (No, I wasn't convicted of anything),  and I was amazed by how "fat" and tall it was. Even though it pains me to admit this, y'all have been kicking out behinds down in Atlanta in quite a few measures (transit expansion, roadways, height, planning). I mean looking and your F500 companies,  BofA earns more profit than the big 4 (HD, UPS, Delta, and Coke) all COMBINED.  That is truly amazing. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Ric0_0
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1 hour ago, Ric0_0 said:

Those are fighting words right there... :tw_angry:. Where exactly in Atlanta did you go for it to be "horrible".

 

While Atlanta being much smaller in population isn't exactly what I would call optimal/advantageous/desireable, you also cannot compare apples to oranges. Not to say that it can't be done, but Atlanta is at a great land disadvantage. You also have to include Emory. GA Tech, GSU, and all the other universities that add another 80,000-100,000 plus "residents" to the city.  In addition, Mecklenburg county is bigger than ANY county in all of Georgia which allows for much more cohesive planning. Here in Atlanta we have counties trying to steal companies from each other (cough cough Cobb and Gwinnet).

I would definitely agree that Charlotte has a MUCH better planning and growth model  (except for those monster parking decks) than Atlanta, but Charlotte now needs to focus on creating its own image. It's starting to get to the size where it isn't feeling like a smaller city to get away from the "crowdedness" of the bigger cities. As an example, I was on a roadtrip with friends and we wanted to stop in some locations along our way. Charlotte didn't  even make the top 5 because it didn't offer anything that we can't get in Atlanta in their eyes. Of course you have NASCAR, white water, etc. but it still didn't feel "unique" enough to the members in my party. 

In light of all of this, Charlotte has been doing amazing lately and I can't wait to see all of the new development in the area. Last summer I had the awesome opportunity to view the Uptown skyline from the top of the Mecklenburg county courthouse(I think that's what it was) (No, I wasn't convicted of anything),  and I was amazed by how "fat" and tall it was. Even though it pains me to admit this, y'all have been kicking out behinds down in Atlanta in quite a few measures (transit expansion, roadways, height, planning). I mean looking and your F500 companies,  BofA earns more profit than the big 4 (HD, UPS, Delta, and Coke) all COMBINED.  That is truly amazing. 

 

 

 

 

Atlanta was, and will always be (at least in our lifetimes), the NYC of the SE (one could argue for Miami, Dallas, or Houston, but that’s a total side argument).  I’m just hoping Charlotte can be our Boston. Raleigh can now have their rant now based off that comment, lol:tw_lol:

Edited by A2.
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ps—-while Georgia has smaller counties, the entire metro of Atlanta is all of North Georgia. Not hating, just saying that when Chattanooga is almost a suburb, you have to consider that the same size area for a metro Charlotte would encompass the Triad.  Still ATL is the beast of the East (SE to be specific):tw_glasses:

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Just for you Ric0_0

 

 

6FBC60A0-FA7E-4F8B-8B3D-A1750D91132E.jpeg

^ that’s a city you can be proud of. Now if they can just connect the dots between Downtown and Buckhead we are talking !!!

:)

Edited by A2.
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30 minutes ago, A2. said:

Just for you Ric0_0

 

 

6FBC60A0-FA7E-4F8B-8B3D-A1750D91132E.jpeg

^ that’s a city you can be proud of. Now if they can just connect the dots between Downtown and Buckhead we are talking !!!

:)

My heart is overflowing with happiness. :tw_bawling:

Edited by Ric0_0

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I think that Atlanta and Charlotte are both great, and they have a lot in common.   Atlanta is far more like a huge version of Charlotte than a tiny version of New  York.

Further, I think that the whole I-85 Corridor (from the Triangle through Charlotte through Greenville, SC and to Atlanta) is a unified region  with metro areas that are complimentary to each other, kind of like the Bos-Wash corridor along I-95.   The development and prosperity of each metro within this region is good for the entire corridor.

Edited by SydneyCarton
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7 hours ago, A2. said:

Just for you Ric0_0

^ that’s a city you can be proud of. Now if they can just connect the dots between Downtown and Buckhead we are talking !!!

:)

 

7 hours ago, Ric0_0 said:

My heart is overflowing with happiness. :tw_bawling:

Maybe you ATLovers can give me some perspective. I am from CLT, and have been to Atlanta several times over the last decade, but only once was to the downtown (courthouse area... we've got that in common, @Ric0_0 !) and the others to random suburban areas. The downtown blocks I was in were cute, but admittedly I was too young to take much notice. 

The suburban areas were a nightmare I had never experienced in even the worst of the South Charlotte/metro areas here. Never before has a drive been so nerve-wracking; at least in my visits to family in NYC/New Jersey it was all in the context of a "mega-city," whereas in ATL I felt lost in a suburban dystopia.

However I have since seen some of the most amazing photos and Google Street views of urban areas in Atlanta that feel like a page taken right out of the 1920s in New York. Amazing old buildings, historic stone office towers, and storefronts that would make Hillsborough St in Raleigh blush.
So I suppose the dichotomy of Atlanta's built-environment makes it hard to really take it in for all that it is; the noise of suburban sprawl is very loud.

There should have been a question in there somewhere, but I think I've needed to voice this to someone who actually understands ATL so I can get the four-one-one!

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Downtown Atlanta is awful and most of the ‘city’ more than a couple miles from downtown is subruban wasteland that has no unique virtues.  Having said that there are some spectacular neighborhoods in Atlanta (as you note) and IMO it is one of the best food cities in America. Old 4th Ward, Inman Park, Grant Park, East Atlanta, Cabbagetown, the Highlands and parts of midtown (lots of others as well) are all fantastic places. The problem comes from when you need to travel between these places — it truly is an autopocalyptic hellscape,  no matter the time of day (although its somewhat less bad in the gridded intown neighborhoods). 

MARTA trains can infrequently be used as an alternative mode, but walking from the station to your destination also sucks because of car culture. Walking to your destination is almost always on a 4 ft sidewalk beside an 8 lane auto sewer. Even when its through a leafy-green neighborhood it can be problematic,  I recently took MARTA to Candler Park (a very nice Dilworth like neighborhood) and walked 4-5 blocks to my destination on a delightful Spring Friday evening — I saw no other pedestrians on my walk, everybody drives.

I would go to Atlanta much more often (just to eat and possibly go to the Clairmont) if I didn’t have to suffer the worst traffic in the country getting in or out of town. I-85 in Gwinnett county is the most unpleasant place on earth (I say that as someone who is familiar with both South Florida and Myrtle Beach) and I have serious difficulty talking myself into suffering through it again.

TLDR: its no joke when people say we don’t want to be like Atlanta.

edit (and straying pretty far from the topic): Birmingham now has many of Atlanta’s virtues and much less of its awfulness.

Edited by kermit
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1 hour ago, SgtCampsalot said:

 

Maybe you ATLovers can give me some perspective. I am from CLT, and have been to Atlanta several times over the last decade, but only once was to the downtown (courthouse area... we've got that in common, @Ric0_0 !) and the others to random suburban areas. The downtown blocks I was in were cute, but admittedly I was too young to take much notice. 

The suburban areas were a nightmare I had never experienced in even the worst of the South Charlotte/metro areas here. Never before has a drive been so nerve-wracking; at least in my visits to family in NYC/New Jersey it was all in the context of a "mega-city," whereas in ATL I felt lost in a suburban dystopia.

However I have since seen some of the most amazing photos and Google Street views of urban areas in Atlanta that feel like a page taken right out of the 1920s in New York. Amazing old buildings, historic stone office towers, and storefronts that would make Hillsborough St in Raleigh blush.
So I suppose the dichotomy of Atlanta's built-environment makes it hard to really take it in for all that it is; the noise of suburban sprawl is very loud.

There should have been a question in there somewhere, but I think I've needed to voice this to someone who actually understands ATL so I can get the four-one-one!

There is very much an Outside the Perimeter vs Inside the Perimeter (OTP vs ITP) rivalry. I'm an ITPer so I can't answer for them LOL. The rivalry is stronger than many state rivalries, many of my friends even ditched their Braves season tickets in favor of Atlanta United because the Braves moved to Cobb County, perhaps the greatest violator of sprawl encouraging zoning ordinances and backward views on transit. The beltline and the neighborhoods surrounding it are being well preserved, with walkable dense buildings being developed quickly. Midtown is growing like crazy, and Buckhead and Midtown are starting to growing together at the northern boundry of Midtown. The ITP portion of Atlanta is growing right and will be much more walkable and transit friendly in 15 years. Marta just passed a 3B transit expansion. There was hope for an 11 county transit referendum, but it failed in early 2016.

Edited by CarolinaDaydreamin

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9 hours ago, A2. said:

Atlanta was, and will always be (at least in our lifetimes), the NYC of the SE (one could argue for Miami, Dallas, or Houston, but that’s a total side argument).  I’m just hoping Charlotte can be our Boston. Raleigh can now have their rant now based off that comment, lol:tw_lol:

Atlanta, Georgia will never be like New York City.  Baltimore, maybe or Philadelphia.  Miami is the New York of the Southeast.  Raleigh-Durham is the Boston.   Technically, in terms of economy, situated on a state line, Charlotte is more like NY.   But no city can ever even come close to NYC and the comparisons are laughable.

Edited by Phillydog

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8 minutes ago, Phillydog said:

Atlanta, Georgia will never be like New York City.  Baltimore, maybe or Philadelphia.  Miami is the New York of the Southeast.  Raleigh-Durham is the Boston.   Technically, in terms of economy, situated on a state line, Charlotte is more like NY.   But no city can ever even come close to NYC and the comparisons are laughable.

No doubt. NYC is in its own league. That said., the only reason I mention it is due to the economic engine Atlanta has become in the region. :tw_wink:

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In all honestly, I don't think the ITP vs. OTP rivalry is very strong anymore, but I also could just associate with the wrong people. 0_0

Atlanta definitely has some great developing urban area and some not so great ones. The problem it has is trying to connect all of them, and that is the one thing I absolutely dislike about Atlanta. It's never going to be like a NYC (even if we try as hard as we can), but there is just something I like about it, just like how most of y'all here have that spark for something special in Charlotte. 

I also hate the traffic.

Now, I'm not sure where this goes, but it seems like it would fit under this (yes, I know this is a couple of months old, but I didn't see it anywhere). It is always great to focus on "new" companies and "new" expansions, but it is sometimes good to look at how the hometown corps. are doing. 

Sealed Air Corporation (NYSE: SEE) today announced it has signed a definitive agreement to acquire Automated Packaging Systems, Inc. (APS), a leading manufacturer of high-reliability, automated bagging systems, for a purchase price of $510 million on a cash and debt free basis.

APS provides full flexible packaging systems, including industry leading equipment, sustainable materials and technical services. Known for inventing Autobag® bagging machines and pre-opened bags on a roll, APS also offers three recycled film solutions under the EarthAware® brand.

Founded in 1962 with headquarters in Streetsboro, Ohio, APS employs more than 1,200 people, serves customers in over 60 countries and operates seven manufacturing sites in the U.S. and U.K. In 2018, APS generated $290 million in sales, an increase of approximately 10% year-over-year.

https://sealedair.com/media-center/news/sealed-air-acquire-automated-packaging-systems

Also, do y'all post company earning announcements in a specific thread, because I do that on skyscrapperpage.

Edited by Ric0_0
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When we considered moving to Atlanta, I preferred it to Charlotte because, while the two cities are similar, Atlanta has more big city amenities, like the fancy stores in Buckhead (not that we even buy that stuff, but it's fun to look),  the fancy hotels (which have really nice restaurants), the zoo, the attractions downtown, etc.  That being said, the traffic is onerous per se, so we stayed in the QC, which we thought offered a better quality of life for our needs.

We eventually moved to the Triangle, which is the least impressive of the three metros.   For our needs, however, the quality of life here is better than the QC or Atl.  The schools are better, and the traffic is significantly less than Atlanta or Charlotte (at least for our work locations).  

Anyway, I think many people prefer the QC over Atlanta because the quality of life in Charlotte is better, as it's a smaller, more manageable version of Atlanta.  I could not imagine commuting from Alpharetta, Roswell, etc. to downtown every day.  By contrast, If someone is rich enough to live in Buckhead and works there, I can see them preferring that to Charlotte.  I think that the cities are sufficiently similar such that each family's needs determine which is best.  

Comparing Atlanta to Charlotte is like apples to apples.  Which variety of apples do you like?  Comparing Atlanta or Charlotte to NY, SF, or Boston is like comparing apples to fish.  They have nothing in common.

Edited by SydneyCarton

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32 minutes ago, Ric0_0 said:

In all honestly, I don't think the ITP vs. OTP rivalry is very strong anymore, but I also could just associate with the wrong people. 0_0

Atlanta definitely has some great developing urban area and some not so great ones. The problem it has is trying to connect all of them, and that is the one thing I absolutely dislike about Atlanta. It's never going to be like a NYC (even if we try as hard as we can), but there is just something I like about it, just like how most of y'all here have that spark for something special in Charlotte. 

I also hate the traffic.

Now, I'm not sure where this goes, but it seems like it would fit under this (yes, I know this is a couple of months old, but I didn't see it anywhere). It is always great to focus on "new" companies and "new" expansions, but it is sometimes good to look at how the hometown corps. are doing. 

Sealed Air Corporation (NYSE: SEE) today announced it has signed a definitive agreement to acquire Automated Packaging Systems, Inc. (APS), a leading manufacturer of high-reliability, automated bagging systems, for a purchase price of $510 million on a cash and debt free basis.

APS provides full flexible packaging systems, including industry leading equipment, sustainable materials and technical services. Known for inventing Autobag® bagging machines and pre-opened bags on a roll, APS also offers three recycled film solutions under the EarthAware® brand.

Founded in 1962 with headquarters in Streetsboro, Ohio, APS employs more than 1,200 people, serves customers in over 60 countries and operates seven manufacturing sites in the U.S. and U.K. In 2018, APS generated $290 million in sales, an increase of approximately 10% year-over-year.

https://sealedair.com/media-center/news/sealed-air-acquire-automated-packaging-systems

Also, do y'all post company earning announcements in a specific thread, because I do that on skyscrapperpage.

IDK for the most part if you live OTP, you mostly hang with people who live ITP.  If you live in Midtown, Kennesaw might as well be Mars. May be a bit extreme of a personal example, but I've lived in Georgia for 13 years and I've hung out with friends in the suburbs at their houses less than 10 times. The traffic is a large reason why I live ITP and never have to get on an interstate to get to work or visit friends. Traffic isn't that bad if you are just jumping around the east side of town or driving around only Buckhead.

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1 hour ago, kermit said:

Having said that there are some spectacular neighborhoods in Atlanta (as you note) and IMO it is one of the best food cities in America.

I was always of the "Atlanta sucks" crowd until we adopted our son when he was born in Decatur. I cannot believe the amount of good food downtown Decatur has in like half a square mile. I still think about some of the restaurants there and how it was such a cool small historic area. Downtown Decatur is what any surrounding small town here (Concord, Davidson, etc.) should aspire to be. I was totally blown away at how great Decatur was.

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2 hours ago, CLT704 said:

Literally. Isn’t there a Charlotte vs Atlanta thread in the coffee house? Can’t we move this? I keep getting excited thinking there is a new announcement. 

THIS.

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14 hours ago, KJHburg said:

2nd Quarter new jobs report for the Charlotte region shows tech and logistics leading the way.  Charlotte area job growth is much higher than the national average too.

http://charlotteregion.com/clientuploads/Data/NandE/Growth_Report_2Q_2019.pdf

What is the international page of this document saying? Investment into Charlotte from those countries?  It is not very clear at all.

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1 hour ago, youngt2 said:

What is the international page of this document saying? Investment into Charlotte from those countries?  It is not very clear at all.

Exactly what it is saying.

So, we have a Portuguese jobs announcement coming sometime soon.

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Question: How do you decide when something goes in this thread or the Good News thread????

Medical revenue consulting firm Ensemble Health Partners is looking to hire about 100 people in the Charlotte region over the next six months.

Founded in 2014, Ensemble works with hospitals, health systems and physician practices across the country to manage and optimize their revenue cycles. Its two main hubs are in Huntersville, its headquarters, and Mason, Ohio, a regional headquarters that opened recently. Ensemble employs about 400 people in the Huntersville office.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2019/08/06/why-ensemble-health-partners-plans-hiring-spree-in.amp.html

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23 hours ago, KJHburg said:

2nd Quarter new jobs report for the Charlotte region shows tech and logistics leading the way.  Charlotte area job growth is much higher than the national average too.

http://charlotteregion.com/clientuploads/Data/NandE/Growth_Report_2Q_2019.pdf

$2M investment for 6 jobs in iredell county. That more than a quarter million dollar salaries each! 

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3 minutes ago, mpretori said:

$2M investment for 6 jobs in iredell county. That more than a quarter million dollar salaries each! 

If I am not mistaken, that is not what it means. 

For example,  a company could spend 20 million to build a paper factory that will employ 100 people. That is a 20 million investmnet.

Another company, will spend 50 million to build an automotive plant that will employ 50 people.  That is a 50 million investment.

This is similar to how you have those tech companies making "billion dollar" investments in their datacenters, but that does not mean a billion dollars in salary is given out. 

It isn't talking about salaries, it is talking about investment in the infrastructure (building, etc). 

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