Economic Development - Expansions and Relocations

[U_R_]

2 hours ago, CarolinaDaydreamin said:

How do you figure? It moves over 110m+ people per year and is growing about 3% per year

Hmm... I'm not sure how to explain it. The airport is extremely important to ATL and it is probably one of the reasons why we have Delta and other companies. It also employs thousands upon thoursands of people. This impact is constantly expanding and growing.

However, the ATL airport used to be one of the "Big" ticket items for companies to relocate to Atlanta since there were flights to almost anywhere in the US. Now several cities across the southeast and the US (Raleigh, Nashville, Charlotte, Denver, etc.) have airports that have grown massively. Now there are multiple cities with good to great airconnections (Charlotte is one of them). Being able to fly to almost anywhere is still valued, but its value has decreased because of so many other cities also having great airports. I hope what I said made some sense. 

[CarolinaDaydreamin]

2 minutes ago, Ric0_0 said:

Hmm... I'm not sure how to explain it. The airport is extremely important to ATL and it is probably one of the reasons why we have Delta and other companies. It also employs thousands upon thoursands of people. This impact is constantly expanding and growing.

However, the ATL airport used to be one of the "Big" ticket items for companies to relocate to Atlanta since there were flights to almost anywhere in the US. Now several cities across the southeast and the US (Raleigh, Nashville, Charlotte, Denver, etc.) have airports that have grown massively. Now there are multiple cities with good to great airconnections (Charlotte is one of them). Being able to fly to almost anywhere is still valued, but its value has decreased because of so many other cities also having great airports. I hope what I said made some sense. 

They have added many flights to asia (adding a third flight to Korea, second to Japan, Shanghai) and africa. That's a pretty big difference than the other southern cities (even charlotte) and a corporate differentiator. 

[Rufus]

18 hours ago, kermit said:

While the state deserves a large portion of the blame for what has happened to the port of Wilmington (like failing to build the new Southport terminal), its not all their fault. Only having a single railroad into Wilmington is a huge problem (shippers can't negotiate inland freight rates and the single line makes it vulnerable to shutdown). Unfortunately there is an even bigger problem, container ports benefit from increasing returns to scale -- as container ports get bigger they get more efficient -- Wilmington lost that battle 20+ years ago, they will never develop the critical mass necessary to become competitive with Charleston, Savannah or Norfolk.

Based on the data QCexpat posted (assuming its compatible with the USAC data) Wilmington's traffic was nearly halved since 2016.

It will never be a major port again.

 

I don't think the hope is for Wilmington to match Savannah, or Charleston and Hampton Roads. But there is a significant upswing happening at the port, that I think will at least get it to be more competitive. Ports were never NC's thing, mainly because there were so few that could be navigable to begin with. And the Southport terminal was a great idea that was poorly executed, hence why it died. It could've been a great asset, but the outreach wasn't there, and it was a pipe dream overall. I think Wilmington can definitely begin to compete with Jax to be a secondary southern port, especially with the infrastructure improvements being made currently. 

[videtur quam contuor]

19 hours ago, QCxpat said:

Here's a list of the 25 largest container ports in North America.  Savannah is 3rd with 7.8% North American market share.  Charleston is 10th with 4.5% market share.  Wilmington is 25th with 0.7% market share 

2018 Rank	North American port	Location	Coast	2018 North American market share	2017	2018	Year over year % change
1	Los Angeles	California	West	9.3%	1,634,101	1,589,527	-2.7%
2	New York-New Jersey	NY-NJ	East	8.4%	1,372,454	1,426,013	3.9%
3	Savannah	Georgia	East	7.8%	1,305,426	1,338,100	2.5%
4	Long Beach	California	West	7.4%	1,241,853	1,257,127	1.2%
5	Vancouver, British Columbia	Canada	West	6.6%	1,101,645	1,119,590	1.6%
6	Houston	Texas	Gulf	6.1%	948,371	1,034,105	9.0%
7	Northwest Seaport Alliance*	Washington	West	5.3%	910,717	901,362	-1.0%
8	Virginia ports	Virginia	East	5.2%	959,209	883,579	-7.9%
9	Manzanillo	Mexico	West	4.8%	773,876	822,916	6.3%
10	Montreal, Quebec	Canada	East	4.6%	793,738	794,995	0.2%
11	Charleston	South Carolina	East	4.5%	781,505	771,387	-1.3%
12	Oakland	California	West	4.4%	797,099	748,211	-6.1%
13	Jacksonville	Florida	East	3.1%	500,113	528,178	5.6%
14	Port Everglades	Florida	East	2.6%	434,612	443,569	2.1%
15	Veracruz	Mexico	Gulf	2.1%	344,732	358,950	4.1%
16	Miami	Florida	East	2.0%	350,347	346,531	-1.1%
17	Altamira	Mexico	Gulf	2.0%	340,489	344,514	1.2%
18	New Orleans	Louisiana	Gulf	1.6%	297,499	276,881	-6.9%
19	Halifax, Nova Scotia**	Canada	East	1.6%	279,640	266,750	-4.6%
20	Lazaro Cardenas	Mexico	West	1.5%	209,541	238,935	14.0%
21	Baltimore	Maryland	East	1.3%	234,912	216,383	-7.9%
22	Prince Rupert, British Columbia	Canada	West	1.3%	165,943	207,111	24.8%
23	Palm Beach	Florida	East	0.8%	135,295	136,619	1.0%
24	Mobile	Alabama	Gulf	0.7%	133,166	125,705	-5.6%
25	Wilmington, NC	North Carolina	East	0.7%	103,531	113,550	9.7%

 

Link:  https://www.joc.com/port-news/north-america-port-rankings-mexican-ports-grow-fastest_20190506.html

I was in Prince Rupert this summer and it is an interesting place. It is the westernmost full service port in the Americas. Full service=deep water, ice free, all cargo options, and road and rail connection to the rest of the continent. The location makes it hundreds of miles closer to China and Korea than points further south. One truly needs to consult a globe to see this relationship. A new gas pipeline just connected there for export of Canadian products and a L-o-o-o-o-ng time discussion of an oil pipeline may conclude with enough parties being lubricated (so to speak). A young man looking to make his bones might consider Prince Rupert.

[Prince Rupert  of The Rhine was the first governor of the Hudson's Bay Company]

[atlrvr]

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2019/09/sherwin-williams-looking-for-new-headquarters-company-confirms.html

^^^ wonder if this is the rumored HQ looking at Charlotte

[KJHburg]

11 minutes ago, atlrvr said:

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2019/09/sherwin-williams-looking-for-new-headquarters-company-confirms.html

^^^ wonder if this is the rumored HQ looking at Charlotte

One of their biggest retail customers is based in this area Lowes!  Not to mention NC is in the heart of biggest fastest growing region in the country the Southeast.

Interesting in a 1930s era building and has almost 3000 employees.

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2019/09/sherwin-williams-looking-for-new-headquarters-company-confirms.html

Edited September 12, 2019 by KJHburg

[SydneyCarton]

I’m truly amazed at what an enormous port Savannah is.  What’s really impressive is that Savannah and  nearby Charleston together are a really formidable powerhouse. 

Edited September 13, 2019 by SydneyCarton

[KJHburg]

More on Sherwin Williams that is interesting.  They bought Valspar based in Minneapolis in 2017 and moved much of the headquarters staff to Cleveland no wonder they are busting at their seams there.  Lowes is a huge Valspar retailer as well. 

https://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/news/2018/11/12/sherwin-williams-minneapolis-like-a-second.html

Edited September 13, 2019 by KJHburg

[SydneyCarton]

2 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

More on Sherwin Williams that is interesting.  They bought Valspar based in Minneapolis in 2017 and moved much of the headquarters staff to Cleveland no wonder they are busting at their seams there.  Valspar a huge Lowes customer as well. 

https://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/news/2018/11/12/sherwin-williams-minneapolis-like-a-second.html

That would be awesome.  Hopefully, they build a new tower in Uptown or South End.

[lancer22]

14 hours ago, atlrvr said:

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2019/09/sherwin-williams-looking-for-new-headquarters-company-confirms.html

^^^ wonder if this is the rumored HQ looking at Charlotte

I strongly suspect this is one of them (yes that's right there are two)

 

[steve_o]

Valspar has an office presence not far from Lowes HQ in Mooresville.  Not sure how big it is... 

[SydneyCarton]

1 hour ago, lancer22 said:

I strongly suspect this is one of them (yes that's right there are two)

 

The other must be Atl., which is another big hotspot for Buckeyes.

[Scribe]

1 hour ago, SydneyCarton said:

The other must be Atl., which is another big hotspot for Buckeyes.

He meant this is one of two companies rumored to relo HQ's to Charlotte.

[SydneyCarton]

41 minutes ago, Scribe said:

He meant this is one of two companies rumored to relo HQ's to Charlotte.

Thanks!

[KJHburg]

the more I think about Sherwin Williams the more a move here makes sense.  Having just swallowed up Valspar there are a bunch of people they are trying to consolidate.  Lets face it Cleveland is harder to attract people to than a Charlotte with its lake effect snows and stagnant population growth.  Plus CLT airport is much larger and has more European flights.  and you may think this is funny or has nothing to do with anything but I think it could, Ohio people love NC and SC and our beaches.   This will be interesting to watch and expect tight lips from Charlotte Business Alliance, NCEDP, the NC Commerce Dept. etc.  But the CEO is signaling to all they are moving somewhere.  

Look at the CEO's own video posted on this Cleveland news site.

https://www.cleveland19.com/2019/09/12/sherwin-williams-considering-plan-move-global-headquarters-cleveland/

Obviously they want a more modern building so do they go to the Cleveland suburbs or move out of town?  As this would be a huge relocation it qualifies for big incentives from NC like they way they tweaked the incentives for Honeywell (and potentially an Apple big office)   Valspar is based in Minneapolis which that area while growing much faster than Cleveland is not growing as fast as Charlotte and still weather concerns.   Even our airport is busier than MSP.  

Reminds me of how Sealed Air had bought these companies and had their corporate staff scattered in several states before relocating to Charlotte.  

Mysterious company needing up to 1 M sq ft that one fits the bill.   Now the waiting game.   This would be YUGE for Charlotte.  Plus as I mentioned both SW and Valspar paints are sold in Lowes, probably their biggest single retail customer.  Plus there are lots of people in this area that know how to run a retail chain like the Sherwin Williams store being the HQ of 2 grocery stores, a department store Belks and formerly home of Family Dollar.  

To sweeten this deal I will deliver 50 yes 50 dozen Krispy Kreme doughnuts around town at the various SW retail outlets if this comes this way! 

 

[southslider]

At least OH has Kroger HQ. For now.

[U_R_]

4 hours ago, southslider said:

At least OH has Kroger HQ. For now.

Now that's like saying at least NC has BofA...for now.

Or like saying GA has HD... for now. 

[southslider]

Or CA has Wells Fargo.

[15895]

I can’t get excited at the possibility of Sherwin.

Too spoiled. I want a bank. 

[J-Rob]

Economic diversification will help the city when the next recession hits.    More precisely, it should help the city rebound more easily following the next recession.

Also, if they land Uptown they would take sizable sq footage, which will lead to more towers directly or indirectly.  I would love for a company like this to build multiple mid rise (or small high rise) building in First Ward or Brooklyn Village.  This type of relocation could really help increase Uptown's density.

I would be disappointed if they ended up in a suburban office park.  I am concerned that is what will happen.

[CLT2014]

The R&D portion of the new headquarters campus would be the most likely reason they go somewhat suburban. The needs of an R&D campus that needs to handle chemical and resin deliveries, solvents, freight elevators, ventilation, et. would require a custom built building in Uptown. They could separate the R&D campus from the administrative functions of the company, but there are certainly synergies from having R&D leadership / teams co-located with the business units. 

I could see them in an area like near Camp North End where they could build a 4-5 story R&D building next to a 12 story tower for admin. 

[kermit]

10 minutes ago, CLT2014 said:

The R&D portion of the new headquarters campus would be the most likely reason they go somewhat suburban. The needs of an R&D campus that needs to handle chemical and resin deliveries, solvents, freight elevators, ventilation, et. would require a custom built building in Uptown. They could separate the R&D campus from the administrative functions of the company, but there are certainly synergies from having R&D leadership / teams co-located with the business units. 

I could see them in an area like near Camp North End where they could build a 4-5 story R&D building next to a 12 story tower for admin. 

Sounds like a job for Gold District / Charlotte Pipe area.

[QCxpat]

From Monday's 09/16/2019 The Charlotte Business Ledger - Convention Center starts Construction

"The Charlotte Convention Center has started its $110M renovation and expansion, according to the Charlotte Regional Visitors Authority.   The initial construction phase might not be visible from the outside, as it “requires reinforcement to Exhibit Halls A and B and to the roofline structure along Stonewall Street,” according to an email to the Ledger from CRVA spokeswoman Karen Brand.   “While it won’t be visible from the exterior of the building, this important interior structural work will be underway.”  She says the building will remain open and the CRVA will continue working to attract business during construction.  The CRVA said in 2017 that construction would add a pedestrian bridge to the Westin and add meeting rooms and “soft spaces where attendees can network between sessions.” It will add about 50,000 s.f. to the existing meeting level.   Work is expected to be finished in 2021."

 

The view from Stonewall Street: Work has started on the Convention Center’s $110M renovation and expansion. (Rendering courtesy of Charlotte Regional Visitors Authority.)

[CharlotteWkndBuzz]

I'm trying to get my bearings straight...The pedestrian bridge appears to be parallel with the light rail bridge, which makes me wonder does the Westin need this when there is going to be the Rail  Trail extension? 

[DMann]

Maybe it is part of it