Economic Development - Expansions and Relocations

[KJHburg]

I was telling somebody the same thing who knows how this electric vehicle market will turn out.  But if someone larger buys Vinfast or partners with them in the US it will still be a win for NC and I do think this will be great in the long run.  These kinds of plants are expensive to built and I am sure many competitors would want a modern up to date plant like the one to start this year by Vinfast. 

[KJHburg]

the Charlotte region needs some megasites.  Look at this map and see where they are in NC and none in western part of the state.

https://edpnc.com/megasites/

I suggest maybe in Iredell County, Lincoln or Catawba, Cleveland or even Stanly county.  You need to assemble the land, get the utilities to the site and all the necessary approvals but this is something our region needs to do.  It could take years to get one ready but the time is NOW! 

I still think CLT airport could designate some of their land they own for industrial development instead of all big box warehouse development.  

Note:  Charlotte Regional Business Alliance you need to get on this and help some of our ring counties develop a mega site.  

Edited March 31, 2022 by KJHburg

[joenc]

On 3/30/2022 at 8:02 AM, KJHburg said:

I was telling somebody the same thing who knows how this electric vehicle market will turn out.  But if someone larger buys Vinfast or partners with them in the US it will still be a win for NC and I do think this will be great in the long run.  These kinds of plants are expensive to built and I am sure many competitors would want a modern up to date plant like the one to start this year by Vinfast. 

These guys look like they move fast, I wouldn't count them out.

The EV market is wide open.

Edited March 31, 2022 by joenc

[KJHburg]

6 hours ago, joenc said:

These guys look like they move fast, I wouldn't count them out.

The EV market is wide open.

and I am not.  there was just a discussion above all these EV makers and who will be the winner. 

speaking of economic development in the region

""North Carolina's economic investment committee approved incentives Thursday for a 1.4 million-square-foot Macy's Inc. distribution center that calls for an investment of $584 million and will employ nearly 2,800 workers in the town of China Grove.  The facility is expected to be fully operational in 2024 and will account for almost 30 percent of the company's digital supply chain capacity. The job creation is expected to include around 2,500 full-time positions, county documents state, along with additional seasonal and part-time positions.""

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2022/03/31/macys-rowan-county-china-grove-project-fulfillment.html

[Windsurfer]

18 hours ago, KJHburg said:

the Charlotte region needs some megasites.  Look at this map and see where they are in NC and none in western part of the state.

https://edpnc.com/megasites/

I suggest maybe in Iredell County, Lincoln or Catawba, Cleveland or even Stanly county.  You need to assemble the land, get the utilities to the site and all the necessary approvals but this is something our region needs to do.  It could take years to get one ready but the time is NOW! 

I still think CLT airport could designate some of their land they own for industrial development instead of all big box warehouse development.  

Note:  Charlotte Regional Business Alliance you need to get on this and help some of our ring counties develop a mega site.  

How about we recycle all the old mill sites?  The utilities and infrastructure are already in place, and generally they're located among population that is looking for work. Then, of course, it keeps treehuggers like myself happy since NO MORE OPEN LAND is bulldozed.  Google bulldozed two beautiful hillsides in Lenoir, where, just down the road are some abandoned mills.

[DMann]

I wish it was not a traditional retailer.  I believe Macy's is not the healthiest company on the block.

[ArchiCLT]

28 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

and I am not.  there was just a discussion above all these EV makers and who will be the winner. 

speaking of economic development in the region

""North Carolina's economic investment committee approved incentives Thursday for a 1.4 million-square-foot Macy's Inc. distribution center that calls for an investment of $584 million and will employ nearly 2,800 workers in the town of China Grove.  The facility is expected to be fully operational in 2024 and will account for almost 30 percent of the company's digital supply chain capacity. The job creation is expected to include around 2,500 full-time positions, county documents state, along with additional seasonal and part-time positions.""

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2022/03/31/macys-rowan-county-china-grove-project-fulfillment.html

There's your answer to Project Rabbit! Sorry I couldn't divulge earlier! Excited to see this project come to life! You should see the size of the restrooms...

[KJHburg]

Just now, theronhobbs said:

There's your answer to Project Rabbit! Sorry I couldn't divulge earlier! Excited to see this project come to life! You should see the size of the restrooms...

I figured this was the project.  It sounds like it will serve a huge chunk of the country.    anymore rabbits hopping into the area??

[CLT2014]

Do they have a projected average or median wage for the site? Looking like Macy's might pay around $14 an hour for distribution center jobs. 

I just wonder why we are offering incentives to recruit jobs that are largely entry level... should we offer incentives for Trader Joe's to open a store, a Walmart Super Center to be built, a McDonald's to be built, or an independent restaurant to open? $15 an hour jobs are plentiful right now in the current labor market. It seems a little bit like picking winners and losers.... with essentially giving a handout to big employers that pay low wages to move around their stuff made in Thailand.

Are the incentives just specific to the management positions at the facility? 

Edited March 31, 2022 by CLT2014

[Madison Parkitect]

32 minutes ago, theronhobbs said:

You should see the size of the restrooms...

At 2,500 employees that's gotta be, what, a couple thousand square feet just for each restroom?

[ArchiCLT]

5 minutes ago, Madison Parkitect said:

At 2,500 employees that's gotta be, what, a couple thousand square feet just for each restroom?

 At the main restrooms, there are 24 wc's and 24 lav's each, at just over 1,400 SF each.

[videtur quam contuor]

Toilet design issues for a proposed building are a feature rarely considered by the public prior to building completion and I cannot recall it discussed here in any capacity. Congratulations to the architects who keep it real in the #1 and #2 department.

 

[kermit]

4 hours ago, CLT2014 said:

Do they have a projected average or median wage for the site? Looking like Macy's might pay around $14 an hour for distribution center jobs. 

I just wonder why we are offering incentives to recruit jobs that are largely entry level... should we offer incentives for Trader Joe's to open a store, a Walmart Super Center to be built, a McDonald's to be built, or an independent restaurant to open? $15 an hour jobs are plentiful right now in the current labor market. It seems a little bit like picking winners and losers.... with essentially giving a handout to big employers that pay low wages to move around their stuff made in Thailand.

Are the incentives just specific to the management positions at the facility? 

I completely agree that the incentives portion of our ED policy is stupid and has been for a long while. Providing subsidy for entry-level jobs is just a waste since low-wage jobs always follow higher income groups.

The chart below shows what this policy has gotten the state. Our income (as a % of national average income) is at the same level now as it was back in 1985 (North Carolinians only make 86.6% as much as the average American). Income growth peaked in 1997, had a bit of a bump in the early oughts, but has essentially trended down since Bill and Al started their second term in office.  While nominal incomes are certainly going up in NC, we are getting poorer than the average American every year. This is manifested in declines in quality of life, it is not sustainable.

'if you keep doing what you are doing, you are gonna keep getting what you got."

data from https://apps.bea.gov

Edited April 1, 2022 by kermit

[deleted account]

2 hours ago, CLT2014 said:

Do they have a projected average or median wage for the site? Looking like Macy's might pay around $14 an hour for distribution center jobs. 

I just wonder why we are offering incentives to recruit jobs that are largely entry level... should we offer incentives for Trader Joe's to open a store, a Walmart Super Center to be built, a McDonald's to be built, or an independent restaurant to open? $15 an hour jobs are plentiful right now in the current labor market. It seems a little bit like picking winners and losers.... with essentially giving a handout to big employers that pay low wages to move around their stuff made in Thailand.

Are the incentives just specific to the management positions at the facility? 

Great questions! Personally, I would offer incentives for more Trader Joe's but otherwise completely agree with your point. 

PS TJs could easily build 5 more stores in metro Charlotte and they would all crank. Has anyone ever been to one that wasn't busy? Okay, tangent over. 

[KJHburg]

again NO incentives are being paid upfront to Macys.

from the NC Commerce Dept press release

""Macy’s expansion will be facilitated, in part, by a Job Development Investment Grant (JDIG) approved by the state’s Economic Investment Committee earlier today. Using a formula that takes into account $564 million of the company’s investment as well as the new tax revenues generated by 230 JDIG-qualified jobs, the JDIG agreement authorizes the potential reimbursement to the company of up to $2,313,000 spread over 12 years. Payments for all JDIGs only occur following performance verification by the departments of Commerce and Revenue that the company has met its incremental job creation and investment targets. JDIG projects result in positive net tax revenue to the state treasury, even after taking into consideration the grant’s reimbursement payments to a given company.""

https://www.nccommerce.com/news/press-releases/macy’s-announces-584-million-investment-build-major-east-coast-fulfillment

so even though the announcement is 2000 plus jobs only 230 jobs meet their income requirements however the huge investment in the facility a portion of the taxes paid will be rebated ONLY after they are paid and thresholds are met.  

So this is win win for NC.  Maybe these wages would not be good in Charlotte Mecklenburg but in Rowan where housing is less expensive it goes further.  But read the press release carefully most of the incentives are because of the huge investment and NC is still better off. 

 

[SydneyCarton]

I wonder where in NC this company will build its plant.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/vinfast-moves-fast-to-file-for-u-s-ipo/

P.S.: I just looked it up.  It will be in the Triangle.   Sorry wrong forum.

 

Edited April 8, 2022 by SydneyCarton

[kermit]

36 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

I wonder where in NC this company will build its plant.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/vinfast-moves-fast-to-file-for-u-s-ipo/

 

dude...

Its a very Simpson'sesque setting  in the shadow of the nuke plant.

Edited April 8, 2022 by kermit

[KJHburg]

Charlotte Reginal Business Alliance needs to get on this and identify some megasites in this region and here is the state saying we are running out.  It does take years to get one ready and the time to start is yesterday.

From the Triangle Biz Journal

"""In the midst of North Carolina’s economic development boom, trouble could be brewing.   As major companies scoop up some of the state’s best industrial spots, a shortage of shovel-ready sites is looming – one that could keep the next VinFast or Toyota (NYSE: TM) from landing in the Tar Heel State. That’s the fear of economic developers, who say the state’s robust site options have been a major differentiator in competing with areas such as Texas, Georgia, South Carolina and Tennessee for big name projects

But they fear demand could soon outpace supply when it comes to shovel-ready sites.

Christopher Chung, CEO of the Economic Development Corporation of North Carolina, said many manufacturers, be they in life sciences, semiconductors or automobiles, are looking for shovel-ready places to invest. They’re looking for sites with easy access to infrastructure that are close to talent.

“It’s not like you can conjure one of those overnight,” he said, noting that as the state sees more successes, future projects may require increasing the inventory of megasites to accommodate the next one.

Chung, speaking days after both electric carmaker VinFast and retail giant Macy’s (NYSE: M) announced thousands of jobs in the state in a single week, said more successes are likely to follow.""

 

[Windsurfer]

8 hours ago, KJHburg said:

Charlotte Reginal Business Alliance needs to get on this and identify some megasites in this region and here is the state saying we are running out.  It does take years to get one ready and the time to start is yesterday.

From the Triangle Biz Journal

"""In the midst of North Carolina’s economic development boom, trouble could be brewing.   As major companies scoop up some of the state’s best industrial spots, a shortage of shovel-ready sites is looming – one that could keep the next VinFast or Toyota (NYSE: TM) from landing in the Tar Heel State. That’s the fear of economic developers, who say the state’s robust site options have been a major differentiator in competing with areas such as Texas, Georgia, South Carolina and Tennessee for big name projects

But they fear demand could soon outpace supply when it comes to shovel-ready sites.

Christopher Chung, CEO of the Economic Development Corporation of North Carolina, said many manufacturers, be they in life sciences, semiconductors or automobiles, are looking for shovel-ready places to invest. They’re looking for sites with easy access to infrastructure that are close to talent.

“It’s not like you can conjure one of those overnight,” he said, noting that as the state sees more successes, future projects may require increasing the inventory of megasites to accommodate the next one.

Chung, speaking days after both electric carmaker VinFast and retail giant Macy’s (NYSE: M) announced thousands of jobs in the state in a single week, said more successes are likely to follow.""

 

I really do hope they consider old mill sites. You can visit just about any town in the Piedmont and find old mill sites that can used and are almost shovel ready.....like the old Cannon Mills sites. This bulldozing huge swaths of open land is for the birds. Our forests and open land are some of out biggest assets. As far as hazardous sites, most were old cotton mills, not heavy industrial.. And, even if they had hazardous chemicals, we need to clean them up.

[KJHburg]

4 hours ago, Windsurfer said:

I really do hope they consider old mill sites. You can visit just about any town in the Piedmont and find old mill sites that can used and are almost shovel ready.....like the old Cannon Mills sites. This bulldozing huge swaths of open land is for the birds. Our forests and open land are some of out biggest assets. As far as hazardous sites, most were old cotton mills, not heavy industrial.. And, even if they had hazardous chemicals, we need to clean them up.

I would say most mill sites in NC have been redeveloped.  Downtown Kannapolis has been transformed.  Most old mills in NC have been turned into residential or office development like those in Charlotte but even in places like Rocky Mount, all over Durham, and even small towns like Saxapahaw.  Most new modern manufacturing need greenfield sites. If not available in this state or even in this country they will go elsewhere where there is even LESS environmental regulations.    But our mills have been reused in this state!

http://www.rivermillvillage.com/

https://rockymountmills.com/

https://revolutionmillgreensboro.com/

some of my favorite mill renovations outside of Charlotte (which has reused almost every mill that was built in this city) 

[Windsurfer]

4 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

I would say most mill sites in NC have been redeveloped.  Downtown Kannapolis has been transformed.  Most old mills in NC have been turned into residential or office development like those in Charlotte but even in places like Rocky Mount, all over Durham, and even small towns like Saxapahaw.  Most new modern manufacturing need greenfield sites. If not available in this state or even in this country they will go elsewhere where there is even LESS environmental regulations.    But our mills have been reused in this state!

http://www.rivermillvillage.com/

https://rockymountmills.com/

https://revolutionmillgreensboro.com/

some of my favorite mill renovations outside of Charlotte (which has reused almost every mill that was built in this city) 

Yes, quite a few have thankfully, but most have not. There are hundreds of small towns in the Piedmont who just let them collapse.  Wadesboro, Hamlet, ect.   Lenoir had several but Google bulldozed nice land instead. 

This younger generation needs to be a lot more concerned about the environment. Doing business as usual, bulldozing and re-routing rivers for the sake of industry will kill us all.  We have a wonderful state....and planet.  We need to take care of it!

[JRCLT]

Yes, quite a few have thankfully, but most have not. There are hundreds of small towns in the Piedmont who just let them collapse.  Wadesboro, Hamlet, ect.   Lenoir had several but Google bulldozed nice land instead. 
This younger generation needs to be a lot more concerned about the environment. Doing business as usual, bulldozing and re-routing rivers for the sake of industry will kill us all.  We have a wonderful state....and planet.  We need to take care of it!

Usually people making these decisions are mostly late 40s 50s 60s so you are directing your concern in the wrong direction. If there is no ground work or base there is only so much younger people can do.

[Windsurfer]

1 hour ago, JeanClt said:

Usually people making these decisions are mostly late 40s 50s 60s so you are directing your concern in the wrong direction. If there is no ground work or base there is only so much younger people can do.

You're right. I should've said everyone. I just get the impression folks on here are much younger than I am. I also believe younger folks have a lot more to lose since they own the future. But, yes, everyone should be concerned about rampant environmental degradation. Even if it means "jobs".

[JRCLT]

You're right. I should've said everyone. I just get the impression folks on here are much younger than I am. I also believe younger folks have a lot more to lose since they own the future. But, yes, everyone should be concerned about rampant environmental degradation. Even if it means "jobs".

I agree. I only mentioned that because there is GREATER apathy in the older generations. They tend to not like change. As we get older we want consistency and little change and I suppose that is part aging (not everyone but many). We are also creatures of habit so the movement has to start somewhere in breaking the fossil fuels and sprawling habit and over generations better habits overall could be passed down to younger generations.

[kermit]

Quote

Charlotte and Orlando have emerged as front-runners for the ACC’s conference office to relocate from Greensboro, multiple sources told The News & Observer on Thursday, with a vote expected no later than the end of the month.

Greensboro, the ACC’s home for 68 years, remains under consideration as the third finalist.

Orlando... lol

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/college/article260422882.html

Edited April 15, 2022 by kermit