Economic Development - Expansions and Relocations

[KJHburg]

1 hour ago, atlrvr said:

For something completely different...

https://www.thedailybeast.com/google-co-founder-sergey-brin-has-a-secret-disaster-relief-squad

GSD is relocating their HQ from Silicon Valley to Charlotte.  I have no idea why, but sort of cool I guess.

I would say cost of doing business, location at our airline hub, Charlotte's low risk for major disasters, and lots of military vets in the area.   And our location closer to Caribbean. 

 

here is another charity that offers disaster relief that is based in Charlotte and an offshoot of the Foundation of the Carolinas

This is from the Charlotte Ledger on Monday: 

"""A couple weeks ago, as a storm system starting moving toward the Caribbean off the northern coast of South America, officials at E4E Relief’s Charlotte office reached out to its 125 customers.   

E4E provides financial assistance to workers at large companies who experience hardships or endure natural disasters. And with a big storm brewing, E4E checked in with those companies to see if they were comfortable with the amounts they had planned to spend on worker financial assistance programs.

“We were able to go to companies and say, ‘Here is your model of what you should expect to see in this storm,’” said E4E CEO Holly Welch Stubbing.

The storm, of course, turned into Hurricane Ian, a Category 4 hurricane that tore through Florida and later crossed the Carolinas. It demolished homes and upended lives.

And while plenty of charities and government programs are starting to help in the relief efforts, E4E has carved out a growing niche in providing immediate funding to workers facing unforeseen financial struggles. It’s a charity — a subsidiary of Foundation for the Carolinas — that allows companies to help their employees without tasking their own human resources departments with administering a relief program. Nearly one-tenth of Fortune 500 companies are clients.

Although it is gaining a national profile, E4E flies mostly under the radar in Charlotte. Its origins go back more than two decades, to the 9-11 attacks, when then-Wachovia CEO Ken Thompson asked Foundation for the Carolinas to find a way to help the bank’s workers in New York. Since then, E4E has worked providing relief on countless hurricanes, California wildfires, the Russia-Ukraine war, Covid and other disasters. Clients include Wells Fargo, LendingTree, Blue Cross Blue Shield, Salesforce and T. Rowe Price.

E4E says its clients have about 5 million employees. In the last five years, it has received $330M in donations and has made $212M in grants — most in the range of $750 to $3,000.

“When something like this happens, the head of a large company wants to know, ‘Where are my people? Are they OK? What is going on down there? And what are we doing for them?’” Stubbing says. “… One of the things we have found is we are the first responder of funds, if you will, in a variety of situations. Aside from people literally being on the ground, like the military or the federal government, we are the first responders of actual dollars, even ahead of federal government dollars to individual people.”

E4E has 55 employees, who work out of an office on North Tryon Street uptown. It also has about 30 contract workers.

Stubbing says E4E is in “growth mode” and that the idea is catching on nationally, as companies see the benefits of having an outside charity manage their hardship assistance programs.

As for Hurricane Ian, Stubbing says E4E plans to add another 40 contractors or so to handle the expected deluge of applications — as many as 5,000 to 8,000. As of Thursday, E4E had already received 250 applications, many related to the financial costs of evacuating from Florida. After applications are completed and approved, the money can be in recipients’ hands within three to five days, sometimes quicker."""

https://employeerelieffund.org/

 

 

Edited October 6, 2022 by KJHburg

[stiluvclt]

KJ, That was a great article. It is truly amazing to see that kind of selflessness and humanitarianism. Forget about red tape, forget about approval.....just get down there and do the job. KJ, you are a swell guy! Now get out to to CLT and take some new construction pics!

[SydneyCarton]

I love SF and think that it’s one of the five best US cities.  However, this is why individuals want to leave.  An easier life awaits in NC.  ($579k in NC vs. $3.2m in CA presents an easy choice IMO.)

https://www.redfin.com/CA/Cupertino/10387-Somerset-Ct-95014/home/790621

 

Edited October 6, 2022 by SydneyCarton

[15895]

4 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

I love SF and think that it’s one of the five best US cities.  However, this is why individuals want to leave.  An easier life awaits in NC.

https://www.redfin.com/CA/Cupertino/10387-Somerset-Ct-95014/home/790621

 

That's not San Francisco and it's not even in the same Metropolitan area. When you live in an area as dense as the Bay area, I mean. That's the prices you get for a yuge front yard and very American Suburban home. And isn't Cupertino an elite-ish and geographically small area anyway? Let it be 5x more expensive for all I care. 

Less of this (Cupertino):

More of this (San Francisco)

[SydneyCarton]

28 minutes ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

That's not San Francisco and it's not even in the same Metropolitan area. When you live in an area as dense as the Bay area, I mean. That's the prices you get for a yuge front yard and very American Suburban home. And isn't Cupertino an elite-ish and geographically small area anyway? Let it be 5x more expensive for all I care. 

Less of this (Cupertino):

More of this (San Francisco)

Cupertino is 45 miles from SF.  In huge cities like NY and Lon, towns 45 miles away are suburbs with many commuters taking the train into the city each day.  I regard Cupertino as part of the SF metro.  In fact, Mountain View and Palo Alto, which are just as expensive, are even closer to SF and are clearly part of the Bay Area metro.

In any event, with the advent of remote work, you can have a much easier life in Charlotte or the Triangle than in Ca.  There are many Bay Area transplants in the Triangle.

Edited October 6, 2022 by SydneyCarton

[15895]

56 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Cupertino is 45 miles from SF.  In huge cities like NY and Lon, towns 45 miles away are suburbs with many commuters taking the train into the city each day.  I regard Cupertino as part of the SF metro.

In any event, with the advent of remote work, you can have a much easier life in Charlotte or the Triangle than in Ca.  There are many Bay Area transplants in the Triangle.

I'm just letting you know, you're factually wrong. It's a San Jose suburb. But beyond not being in the same Metropolitan area, even if it was, it's not "San Francisco" which is a  city that overall is significantly more dense than uptown & Southend. So calling Cupertino San Francisco is just odd.

You can have an easier life in Columbia SC than Charlotte. You can have an easier life in Kings Mountain than Charlotte. You can have an easier life in University City area than Myer's Park. Why pay more money to live in Myer's Park when you could have a larger home in the University City area? Why choose Charlotte over Hickory? Why pay more money to live in Davidson or Huntersville when you could live somewhere in Concord. Some people do choose a bigger new house in Concord, some people choose smaller older houses in Myer's Park. 

Why build office towers in uptown and Southend when  it is cheaper to have offices in Ballantyne or other office parks throughout the city? Why not a campus in University City? Why not create a version of Research Triangle Park in the Charlotte area except the Charlotte version would be banks instead of Tech companies? It would be cheaper than Skyscraper in Uptown.

Some of the things some of you want doesn't match up with the things you tout. Do you want the region to be a low dense area that continues to sprawl with some token urbanism. Or do you want more urbanity, more housing in inner-ring neighborhoods such as NoDa, more people in uptown/center city (not just young professionals but all sorts of people). You can't have giant houses on plots of land with a sizable yard  at a cheap cost and at the same time be a dense urban area. You can't have cheap housing in greater NoDa if it's restricted to single-family homes (which is changing) and when people have so much land there.

Is it a win for urbanity in Charlotte to attract people who want to move to Weddington for a giant house for $600,000  with a sizable yard? Or people who want to move to an area where you tear down a ton of trees by the Catawba River? I don't think so.  My point is. Suburbs (based on large cheap housing that continues to sprawl further out for more land) in dense cities (especially a Global one that is the technologic hub of the world) aren't sustainable. And I even think it's selfish to think you should have a cheap 5 bedroom house with a big yard, etc. in such a populated area with limited land. Go to Montana. Go to an area with more land. Go to smaller cities with slower growth for that experience. But you don't get the luxury of having giant cheap housing and live in a land-restricted dense area. 

 

Edited October 6, 2022 by AirNostrumMAD

[atlrvr]

To add on to this train wreck, errrrr, minor derailment, GSD was technically in Redwood City which is part of the San Francisco MSA, but geographically closer to Cupertino  .  In fact their HQ is about 1.5 miles from the MSA borderline 

 

But yes, I'm sure the reasons KJ mentioned were all major factors.

[SydneyCarton]

52 minutes ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

I'm just letting you know, you're factually wrong. It's a San Jose suburb. But beyond not being in the same Metropolitan area, even if it was, it's not "San Francisco" which is a  city that overall is significantly more dense than uptown & Southend. So calling Cupertino San Francisco is just odd.

You can have an easier life in Columbia SC than Charlotte. You can have an easier life in Kings Mountain than Charlotte. You can have an easier life in University City area than Myer's Park. Why pay more money to live in Myer's Park when you could have a larger home in the University City area? Why choose Charlotte over Hickory? Why pay more money to live in Davidson or Huntersville when you could live somewhere in Concord. Some people do choose a bigger new house in Concord, some people choose smaller older houses in Myer's Park. 

Why build office towers in uptown and Southend when  it is cheaper to have offices in Ballantyne or other office parks throughout the city? Why not a campus in University City? Why not create a version of Research Triangle Park in the Charlotte area except the Charlotte version would be banks instead of Tech companies? It would be cheaper than Skyscraper in Uptown.

Some of the things some of you want doesn't match up with the things you tout. Do you want the region to be a low dense area that continues to sprawl with some token urbanism. Or do you want more urbanity, more housing in inner-ring neighborhoods such as NoDa, more people in uptown/center city (not just young professionals but all sorts of people). You can't have giant houses on plots of land with a sizable yard  at a cheap cost and at the same time be a dense urban area. You can't have cheap housing in greater NoDa if it's restricted to single-family homes (which is changing) and when people have so much land there.

Is it a win for urbanity in Charlotte to attract people who want to move to Weddington for a giant house for $600,000  with a sizable yard? Or people who want to move to an area where you tear down a ton of trees by the Catawba River? I don't think so.  My point is. Suburbs (based on large cheap housing that continues to sprawl further out for more land) in dense cities (especially a Global one that is the technologic hub of the world) aren't sustainable. And I even think it's selfish to think you should have a cheap 5 bedroom house with a big yard, etc. in such a populated area with limited land. Go to Montana. Go to an area with more land. Go to smaller cities with slower growth for that experience. But you don't get the luxury of having giant cheap housing and live in a land-restricted dense area. 

 

You seem rather cranky and sensitive.  Whatever makes you happy is fine with me.

Edited October 6, 2022 by SydneyCarton

[KJHburg]

3 hours ago, stiluvclt said:

KJ, That was a great article. It is truly amazing to see that kind of selflessness and humanitarianism. Forget about red tape, forget about approval.....just get down there and do the job. KJ, you are a swell guy! Now get out to to CLT and take some new construction pics!

believe it or not just yesterday I found out my friend's husband works for that organization E4E.   

[15895]

1 hour ago, SydneyCarton said:

You seem rather cranky and sensitive.  Whatever makes you happy is fine with me.

No. Not cranky nor sensitive. I don’t know how to speak in a way that isn’t dramatic, so. Obviously online or in text it may come across very cranky. I dunno. Self-awareness is hard but. I try lol.

(though if there is anything makes me cranky. It’s suburbanites lmao. The ones who want to dodge taxes yet have the toys. The ones who want free roads but mass transit has to be profitable. That is infuriating lol) 

Edited October 6, 2022 by AirNostrumMAD

[J-Rob]

The Charlotte Regional Business Alliance emailed out an interesting blog post today. It talks about their recruiting strategy for Q4.  Some of it is expected, yet reassuring to see, like trying to leverage Eli Lilly and the Pearl Innovation District at the new Med School.  Other pieces were much more interesting and shark-like.  They are targeting companies in Chicago trying to escape high crime and high taxation.

I thought it was an interesting read.

https://charlotteregion.com/blog/2022/10/06/clt-alliance-blog/rebranded-select-clt-team-accelerates-into-q4-with-flurry-of-recruitment-activity/

Edited October 6, 2022 by J-Rob

[SydneyCarton]

Chicago is a total mess at the moment, so it’s a good target.

https://www.reuters.com/business/tyson-foods-moves-corporate-jobs-arkansas-latest-blow-chicago-2022-10-05/

 

Edited October 6, 2022 by SydneyCarton

[kermit]

2 hours ago, J-Rob said:

The Charlotte Regional Business Alliance ... are targeting companies in Chicago trying to escape high crime and high taxation.

2 hours ago, SydneyCarton said:

Chicago is a total mess at the moment, so it’s a good target.

So at the risk of bleeding threads together I was curious about the data behind these two statements. Per the FBI Crime Explorer these numbers were reported for "All Violent Crimes" by the Chicago PD (CPD) and the CharMeck PD (CMPD) for 2021. On a per capita basis these numbers are:

CPD: .0063 violent reported crimes per person (using CLT2014's revised numbers in the post below)

CMPD: .0068 violent reported crimes per person

So while the 'buzz' is certainly that Chicago is a "crime filled hellhole" this data source compiled by the FBI (and CLT2014) fail to support that statement, it shows Charlotte to be marginally more dangerous than Chicago in per capita terms. This is supported by my experience walking most of the neighborhoods north of 35th street over the past 20 years. We can certainly quibble about the accuracy of the data (or my interpretation and use of it) but when agencies like the Chamber start throwing around objectively false statements in their recruiting material they are putting their credibility at risk (what else are they lying about?)

Edit: The material above was revised to take CLT2014's revised calculations (below) into account. My original conclusion (I believe) remains valid, Charlotte has more violent crime per capita than Chicago.

Quote

[from CLT2014 post below]

Total violent: 17,250
Violent crime rate per 100,000 people = 628
(17,250/2,746,388) X 100,000

These data surprised me and I think they are an indicator that many of us (myself included) need to reckon with the degree to which social and mainstream media has skewed our perception of crime.

[the FBI data in the charts below are for total violent crimes, not per person, so the reason why Charlotte's graph does not have a downtrend is largely because of our population growth. ]

[as a second aside, I have been looking at real estate in Chicago recent and have not found their residential property taxes  to be much higher than ours. I'll admit that budget conditions don't bode well for future tax rates in Illinois]

 

Edited October 6, 2022 by kermit

[SydneyCarton]

I was referring to major corporations fleeing Chicago.  Personally, I like Chicago a lot, and unlike NY and SF, it’s very, very affordable.  Its only Achilles Heel is its winter weather, which is far worse than NY or DC, for example.

Edited October 6, 2022 by SydneyCarton

[J-Rob]

The data is interesting, but I was alluding to the CRBA's reasoning rather than trying to make a political statement. I am sure there is more to be uncovered here, but I guess perception matters at the end of the day. 

https://charlotteregion.com/blog/2022/10/06/clt-alliance-blog/rebranded-select-clt-team-accelerates-into-q4-with-flurry-of-recruitment-activity/

[RANYC]

1 hour ago, J-Rob said:

They are targeting companies in Chicago trying to escape high crime and high taxation.

People in glass houses…

[RANYC]

If existing Charlotte businesses thrived and flourished and they could successfully recruit and fill their talent pipelines, and if those same businesses successfully pivoted as the marketplace shifted or successfully spun off new businesses to service new needs,  and if the per capita prosperity of people here outpaced inflation and whatever metric is needed to live well and feel good, I think I’d be fine not chasing companies in other cities by playing up negative attributes of those other places.  Again, what are we chasing here?  Who steps onto a plane and goes: “damn I wish there were more people in here.”

Edited October 6, 2022 by RANYC

[CLT2014]

The FBI data for 2021 isn't accurate for Chicago due to a new reporting system in place that Chicago PD isn't up to date on.... hence the big 2020 to 2021 drop. Violent crime was actually up slightly from 2020 to 2021 in Chicago. Chicago Police also only has jurisdication in Chicago city limits (2.7 million people) and does NOT have county jurisdiction in Cook. Independent towns have their own police.  

City of Chicago:
Murder: 797 (+3%)
Criminal Secual Assault: 2,069 (+27%)
Robbery: 7,935 (+1%)
Aggravated Battery: 6,449 (-2%)
Total violent: 17,250
Violent crime rate per 100,000 people = 628
(17,250/2,746,388) X 100,000

Non-violent:
Burglary: 6,704 (-23%)
Theft: 12,986 (+21%)
Car Theft: 10,651 (+7%)
Total Crime: 47,591 (+3%)
https://home.chicagopolice.org/wp-content/uploads/CompStat-Public-2021-Year-End.pdf

 

Homicides are the biggest one where their is a big gap between Charlotte and Chicago:

With 797 homicides in 2021 the muder rate in Chicago (2.7 million people) was 29 per 100,000 citizens
With 96 homicides in 2021 the murder rate in Charlotte (873k people) was 10.9 per 100,000 citizens

Charlotte would need to bump to about 255 homicides per year to match Chicago's murder rate.

Edited October 6, 2022 by CLT2014

[15895]

14 minutes ago, CLT2014 said:

The FBI data for 2021 isn't accurate for Chicago due to a new reporting system in place that Chicago PD isn't up to date on.... hence the big 2020 to 2021 drop. Violent crime was actually up slightly from 2020 to 2021 in Chicago. Chicago Police also only has jurisdication in Chicago city limits (2.7 million people) and does NOT have county jurisdiction in Cook. Independent towns have their own police.  

City of Chicago:
Murder: 797 (+3%)
Criminal Secual Assault: 2,069 (+27%)
Robbery: 7,935 (+1%)
Aggravated Battery: 6,449 (-2%)
Total violent: 17,250
Violent crime rate per 100,000 people = 628
(17,250/2,746,388) X 100,000

Non-violent:
Burglary: 6,704 (-23%)
Theft: 12,986 (+21%)
Car Theft: 10,651 (+7%)
Total Crime: 47,591 (+3%)
https://home.chicagopolice.org/wp-content/uploads/CompStat-Public-2021-Year-End.pdf

 

Homicides are the biggest one where their is a big gap between Charlotte and Chicago:

With 797 homicides in 2021 the muder rate in Chicago (2.7 million people) was 29 per 100,000 citizens
With 96 homicides in 2021 the murder rate in Charlotte (873k people) was 10.9 per 100,000 citizens

I would imagine it’s still biased towards Charlotte when comparing Charlotte to Chicago because you have such a vast area of suburbs in Charlotte whereas Chicago is vastly more urban in the city limits. If we were to shrink Charlotte to it’s inner core, I would imagine the crime rate would rise when you start to cut out a vast major of land and areas such as Ballantyne, etc. 

Thats just generalizations and assumptions on my part but. 

34 minutes ago, RANYC said:

If existing Charlotte businesses thrived and flourished and they could successfully recruit and fill their talent pipelines, and if those same businesses successfully pivoted as the marketplace shifted or successfully spun off new businesses to service new needs,  and if the per capita prosperity of people here outpaced inflation and whatever metric is needed to live well and feel good, I think I’d be fine not chasing companies in other cities by playing up negative attributes of those other places.  Again, what are we chasing here?  Who steps onto a plane and goes: “damn I wish there were more people in here.”

Very well stated.

 

[kermit]

3 hours ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

I would imagine it’s still biased towards Charlotte when comparing Charlotte to Chicago because you have such a vast area of suburbs in Charlotte whereas Chicago is vastly more urban in the city limits. If we were to shrink Charlotte to it’s inner core, I would imagine the crime rate would rise when you start to cut out a vast major of land and areas such as Ballantyne, etc.

One of my theories about all of the current hand-wringing about crime is that, as center city areas have gentrified, crime and poverty have been displaced to suburban areas. So while overall crime rates have pretty clearly declined, neighborhoods which historically felt 'exempted' from crime are now feeling it. I will admit I have not looked closely at any intra-urban crime data and this feeling of mine is largely based on anecdote and proxy data. I do remember that University City was one of the highest crime neighborhoods in Charlotte for several years about a decade ago. 

[now that I have said this, I will admit that I am guilty of making judgements about crime data without looking at the data -- exactly the kind of thing I have been calling out in this discussion...]

Edited October 6, 2022 by kermit

[CLT2014]

24 minutes ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

I would imagine it’s still biased towards Charlotte when comparing Charlotte to Chicago because you have such a vast area of suburbs in Charlotte whereas Chicago is vastly more urban in the city limits. If we were to shrink Charlotte to it’s inner core, I would imagine the crime rate would rise when you start to cut out a vast major of land and areas such as Ballantyne, etc. 

Thats just generalizations and assumptions on my part but. 

Very well stated.

 

You can kind of slice and dice any city that way. New York includes Staten Island but it doesn't include Newark. Los Angeles has Pacific Palisades and Brentwood but it doesn't have Compton in city limits. I'm not sure what is really "urban core" in Charlotte either since it is all largely suburban outside of a few census tracts very close to Uptown. Plaza Midwood for example would be a suburban neighborhood in Chicago area based on the prevalance of single family bungalows. West Charlotte, East Charlotte, and North Charlotte are largely single family homes with garden style apartments. 

Really crime in any city comes down to how many good vs bad areas happen to be in the city limits. Charlotte just happens to have a larger percentage of its census tracts in "good areas" versus Chicago.

 

Edited October 6, 2022 by CLT2014

[RANYC]

36 minutes ago, CLT2014 said:

You can kind of slice and dice any city that way. New York includes Staten Island but it doesn't include Newark. Los Angeles has Pacific Palisades and Brentwood but it doesn't have Compton in city limits. I'm not sure what is really "urban core" in Charlotte either since it is all largely suburban outside of a few census tracts very close to Uptown. Plaza Midwood for example would be a suburban neighborhood in Chicago area based on the prevalance of single family bungalows. West Charlotte, East Charlotte, and North Charlotte are largely single family homes with garden style apartments. 

Really crime in any city comes down to how many good vs bad areas happen to be in the city limits. Charlotte just happens to have a larger percentage of its census tracts in "good areas" versus Chicago.

 

 In a recent discussion, a friend theorized that heterogeneous density brings many more clashes of wills, more conflicts, thus more crime until gentrification does its job reducing the heterogeneity, then you see a smoothing of the spike.

Edited October 6, 2022 by RANYC

[Reverie39]

I feel like San Francisco/San Jose is a bit of a Raleigh/Durham kinda situation. They really are one large metro area in my eyes but the Census definition doesn't suit multi-nodal metro areas well. The whole Bay is one very connected region that shares jobs, culture, sports teams, regional identity, etc.

[BJKM]

5 hours ago, RANYC said:

 In a recent discussion, a friend theorized that heterogeneous density brings many more clashes of wills, more conflicts, thus more crime until gentrification does its job reducing the heterogeneity, then you see a smoothing of the spike.

Sorry for the off topic contribution. Fully realizing that this is the internet and opinions are like a**holes around here, but this statement feels like it’s rooted in racism.  It’s reads that the more white people that move in an area, the less crime there is. Maybe that was not the intent, but this type of statement puts the crime rate narrative squarely on people of color instead of on the city for allowing developers to put $800k homes next to a row of duplexes disrupting economic opportunity for poor disproportionately POC people. 
 

I would encourage your friend to spend more time in more diverse circles. Heterogeneous mixtures are precisely how we learn to get along. And if nothing else, nature proves that life prefers diversity. 

[RANYC]

11 hours ago, BJKM said:

Sorry for the off topic contribution. Fully realizing that this is the internet and opinions are like a**holes around here, but this statement feels like it’s rooted in racism.  It’s reads that the more white people that move in an area, the less crime there is. Maybe that was not the intent, but this type of statement puts the crime rate narrative squarely on people of color instead of on the city for allowing developers to put $800k homes next to a row of duplexes disrupting economic opportunity for poor disproportionately POC people. 
 

I would encourage your friend to spend more time in more diverse circles. Heterogeneous mixtures are precisely how we learn to get along. And if nothing else, nature proves that life prefers diversity. 

The relationship between urban density, the design of that density, and crime have been repeatedly studied for many years, with mixed results.  Heterogeneity is not just racial, but can also be mixed-income/mixed-means, can be employment status, can be religious, can be mixed-national origin.  My friend doesn't need to spend more time in new or diverse circles.  He's the kind of person to celebrate intellectual freedom, to ask questions, and to then go to Google Scholar to look for answers in the quality and due process of data-driven, inferential research.

To put back on topic...economic development efforts here may want to consider focusing on optimizing local conditions, rather than exploiting the struggles of faraway places.

Edited October 7, 2022 by RANYC