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Merthecat

Kane's third downtown project

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When they say dense I hope it means some height.  Raleigh needs more height not more 10-12 story buildings while nice they  do not really add to the skyline.  Kane should build a tower like what they are going to do at North Hills 25-35 stories tall.  

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I agree with you in most cases, but for this property I must respectfully disagree.  It's in one of Raleigh's oldest neighborhoods and is right next to single-family homes.  I don't feel that more than 12 or so stories is appropriate for this property.  Not only would it make for an awkward transition to the rest of the neighborhood, but I'm sure that the neighbors would have a fit over anything that tall.  Above all I want to see something that respects the character and state of the neighborhood yet still makes an impact in terms of height and density.  I'm sure Kane will deliver an excellent-quality project, however, and I look forward to seeing whatever he decides to build on his new land.

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It's currently zoned for 7 stories (IX-7-UL) so if Kane is going to request a rezoning, he's probably going bigger than that. I would be satisfied with 12 stories.

What would be *really* awesome would be if he could find a way to extend the tunnel under the tracks for Union Station into this property and fully integrate it with the station. That's extremely unlikely to happen. At any rate I hope it is well-integrated with the urban fabric of the city. Dillon is absolutely fantastic in that regard, Peace is OK but a bit less than stellar.

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Been hoping this would get developed sooner rather than later, and Kane is a good bet to get it right. I was kind of hoping the Amtrak office building (not the station) could be kept and used for a restaurant or bar with that beautiful platform/dock facing east towards the skyline. The rest of the site is ready to be cleared and brought into the fabric of the downtown finally. Dupont Circle is an important back door into Boylan Heights that I hope gets good street facing attention. The existing, low density warehouses along it are occupied by local artists (Is Matt McConnell using one of those?). Cabbarrus is a great street for walkup residential. Line the track side with height and I think you've got a good balanced, total project. 

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7 hours ago, Merthecat said:

From TBJ - Kane is under contract to purchase 6.8 acres in Boylan Heights, next to the outgoing Amtrak station.  He will be requesting a rezoning soon.

https://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/news/2018/04/02/kane-to-buy-another-prominent-downtown-property.html

Can't be too much longer until Kane owns half of Raleigh. :tw_grin:

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18 hours ago, KJHburg said:

When they say dense I hope it means some height.  Raleigh needs more height not more 10-12 story buildings while nice they  do not really add to the skyline.  Kane should build a tower like what they are going to do at North Hills 25-35 stories tall.  

I live very close to this parcel, and 25-35 stories just isn't going to fly there unless there are some setbacks with the biggest height adjacent to the tracks. This is a neighborhood consisting of primarily single family homes, so that must be respected.  Not to mention it would stick out like a sore thumb.

I'm all about density and downtown (that's why I live where I do), but the people who already live there need to be considered.

This development also makes me wonder about the proposal to close the at-grade crossing on Cabarrus. It would make traffic a complete cluster in this neighborhood with a huge development and no way for heavy traffic to easily flow around it.

Many in the neighborhood are curious about what this means for Haven House, which is a great resource for the community. I hope they're able to find a place to continue their great work if they're forced out.

Edited by miamiblue
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The main traffic concern I'd have would not be heading towards downtown, since there are plenty of options (Lenoir, South, and the future West Street Tunnel) but rather traffic headed toward Western Boulevard via Boylan Avenue.

The solution to that would be to extend West Street south through Heritage Park to intersect with Western. Also Rework the Dawson-McDowell-Western-MLK interchange to take up less land and have better accommodations for pedestrians. This was all suggested in the city's South Gateway Corridor Study.

I'd love to see that extension, along with a redevelopment of the aging Heritage Park complex which has about 120 units on about 12 acres, to be five times as dense. Double the affordable units to 240 and add 360 market-rate units for a total of 600 units. That's a lot of units, but it's also a lot of land. 50 units per acre is pretty easy to achieve and relatively unobtrusive with mundane five-story "wrap" style construction.

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2 hours ago, orulz said:

 

The solution to that would be to extend West Street south through Heritage Park to intersect with Western. Also Rework the Dawson-McDowell-Western-MLK interchange to take up less land and have better accommodations for pedestrians. This was all suggested in the city's South Gateway Corridor Study.

 

That almost hits my redraw on the head, which was at-grade MLK/Saunders with West dropped down to intersect as well. Heritage Park becomes two city blocks with possibly Dorthea brought over to Dawson as well. 

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Here's a rough draft of what I would develop on the property:

tqZEzrR.jpg

However, I realized later that I would probably want to add some green space in the purple area, perhaps as a plaza or wide landscaped median between the Saunders extension and a possible Rosengarten extension.

Edited by Merthecat
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2 hours ago, Green_man said:

This site in the news reminds me of this idea I had back in 2015 for redevelopment of this area....  Trackside District

 

Fun to revisit these and see how things are coming along in real time. I do hope Kane punches Saunders through as you have shown and the scale is essentially as you've proposed. 

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This is probably mentioned somewhere, but what will eventually happen to the actual Amtrak station lot?

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Good point, I haven't heard. The parking spaces nearest the existing track will probably be destroyed in the process of relocating the track. Unclear what happens to the 40 or so parking spaces that are not adjacent to the track. 

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Another Logans style reuse would have been cool...sell vegetables out of it or something. It's kind of neat inside, like an old small town train station. I imagine at least the benches will get sold and reused in a restaurant or something. 

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Ironically, the station was a restaurant at one time. It was built in 1950 and closed as a passenger station in 1964 when the last Southern Railway passenger train through Raleigh was discontinued. (Of course, the Seaboard passenger station remained quite active.) I don't know exactly when a restaurant occupied the structure, but I've heard it was in the 1970s.

Anyway... whether deservedly or not, it's going down. I assume whatever contents have value will be salvaged.

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Add this to the corridor of land along the Dix-North Hills 'corridor', which is especially relevant in the Amazon conversation....

He is so savy and has seemed to pull off every single thing he's tried....it almost gives me the gut feeling, that if Kane decides to full throttle try and reel them in, then that's how it'll happen....his full throttle pursuit. 

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2 hours ago, Jones_ said:

Add this to the corridor of land along the Dix-North Hills 'corridor', which is especially relevant in the Amazon conversation....

He is so savy and has seemed to pull off every single thing he's tried....it almost gives me the gut feeling, that if Kane decides to full throttle try and reel them in, then that's how it'll happen....his full throttle pursuit. 

Yeah you've really got to give the man credit.  He has a vision and when he latches onto an idea he just pushes hard to get what he wants done.  It's very admirable and while yes, there are some negatives -- he really spurred changes in this area for helping bridge the suburban/urban divide.  He's driving a lot of development and change downtown as well now.  He also got the "forever stuck" Valentine Commons project going.

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Agreed, the redevelopment of North Hills Mall was a big step forward for the city, and you put it well: it went a long way to bridge the urban/suburban divide. It was far from perfect but in retrospect it may have been the best that was possible at the time. But the best news is that, since then, the execution of his projects - in terms of design, materials, and ambition have been getting better and better from North Hills East through Stanhope on to Dillon and Peace. And nothing seems to hold him back - he kept right on building through the stormiest weather of the Great Recession, with Captrust and Park and Market breaking ground in 2008.

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1 hour ago, orulz said:

Agreed, the redevelopment of North Hills Mall was a big step forward for the city, and you put it well: it went a long way to bridge the urban/suburban divide. It was far from perfect but in retrospect it may have been the best that was possible at the time. But the best news is that, since then, the execution of his projects - in terms of design, materials, and ambition have been getting better and better from North Hills East through Stanhope on to Dillon and Peace. And nothing seems to hold him back - he kept right on building through the stormiest weather of the Great Recession, with Captrust and Park and Market breaking ground in 2008.

Raleigh is very, very lucky to have Kane. He makes things happen and clearly has a good understanding of the commercial real estate and business market. 

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10 hours ago, orulz said:

... he kept right on building through the stormiest weather of the Great Recession, with Captrust and Park and Market breaking ground in 2008.

True. A cynic might say, however, that the crap didn't hit the fan until Sept 2008 and he knew that if he put the projects on hold, it could take years to reassemble financing in a frightened capital market. 

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6 hours ago, Merthecat said:

The rear portion of Stanhope is probably the only project of Kane's that I object to:

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.7887716,-78.6778539,3a,75y,56.43h,101.11t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_w_FCQfbqPkAL41XuquJmQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

It's very monotonous, grey, and uninspiring.

Legit point, but I don't think he called all the shots on this project...I think he just executed and financed the plan that POS valentine couldn't get anyone else on board to help with. I mean...all Valentine was good at was letting his buildings deteriorate into parking lots. Where all the money went that he student-ghetto lorded out of generations of students is anyone's guess. 

RE North Hills shortcomings, I give Kane something of a pass given that he has no control on the City's unwillingness to design roads in any pattern other than a giant pile of dog sh&^. Historic, functional, street grids disappeared 50 years before Six Forks Road even had it's gravel paved over. Sure, he sold short what he could have done within the development, but I think Raleigh in general has always been at least a decade behind every progressive curve.  It really frustrates the hell out of me, how much of a coattailer we have been for 25 years. There is a clear and present desire, not to ever, EVER garner an anti-development label. Anyone who throws around the label NIMBY here nowadays, surely would have hated the group in Oakwood who stopped the keystone downtown renewal piece, the highway feeding the dystopian government complex. Those were the days of fighting for sh^& that mattered. Now we can't get a protected bike corridor in downtown without a non-profit footing the bill on a time-trial basis. But as usual, I digress....

Edited by Jones_

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