Hampton Roads Off-Topic Talk

[wrldcoupe4]

This place is one of my major means of procrastination for schoolwork....like right now I should be studying for a final and finishing a 20 pg research paper...or better yet sleeping. ohwell, I'm definitely into the urban planning/govt/econ development stuff. I'm a Government and International Relations major with a focus in public administration and I plan on minoring in urban and suburban studies. Still gotta figure out what I'll be getting my masters in but more than likely it will be someting in one of those areas.

[rusthebuss]

I'm working on Electrical Engineering Bachelors and I'm not sure if i will go for my masters. I'm still in my sophmore year and i've been going for a while now. Takes forever when you work full time and go to school part time.

[rusthebuss]

Financial woes close Bergey's Dairy after 72 years

The sign in front of Bergey's Dairy Farm announces its "final days" on Wednesday morning. STEVE EARLEY / THE VIRGINIAN-PILOT

By JANETTE RODRIGUES, The Virginian-Pilot

[vdogg]

COLUMNS

10 commandments to making better places

By Jeff Speck

Inside Business - Hampton Roads

Monday May 16, 2005

Editor

[urbanvb]

Great article. It is good to see our cities starting to embracing these changes that will make them a better place in which to live. While Norfolk continues to grow its skyline, Va Beach is starting its from scratch. These are some great times in which to see all these good changes come to pass.

[wrldcoupe4]

PETA is headquarted in Norfolk???????????????????????

[rusthebuss]

PETA is headquarted in Norfolk???????????????????????

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[/quot

Yes and people here do not like it either!!!!! Especially me, and I don't like the fact that they value an animal over a human being.

[wrldcoupe4]

Yes and people here do not like it either!!!!! Especially me, and I don't like the fact that they value an animal over a human being.

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yea man I feel for you russ.....definitely did not know that until like 5 minutes ago. I'm kind of hungry. I think I'm gonna go grab a burger

[rusthebuss]

yea man I feel for you russ.....definitely did not know that until like 5 minutes ago. I'm kind of hungry. I think I'm gonna go grab a burger

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That's funny, they've been here since i think the early 90's. Why????? I don't know and they have water front property by Brambleton Ave. heading towards EVMS and Norfolk General.

[JPN0731]

That's funny, they've been here since i think the early 90's. Why????? I don't know and they have water front property by Brambleton Ave. heading towards EVMS and Norfolk General.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually not everyone hates PETA being here. I like that they add a yin to Pat Robertson's yang. It's funny to me that two extremist groups are HQed within a few miles of each other.

I knew someone who knew someone who worked at PETA a few years back and I guess that the move was made for monetary reasons. Norfolk is close enough to DC (they were in the DC suburbs before... maybe Arlington or Bethesda?) but far enough away where they can save $$ on rent. I think that at the time that property market was not super hot and they got a good deal on it. Who knows.

[rusthebuss]

Actually not everyone hates PETA being here.

Edited May 17, 2005 by rusthebuss

[JPN0731]

I doubt it. I would think you would see something more along the lines of what is happening at St. Paul's Place. Mixed low rise condos, townhouses, and appartments. Destroying the public housing, then putting up $300,000+ condos alone with no availability for lower-middle income housing is not going to sit well with certain populations.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Having the CBD surrounded by slums does not sit well with other "certain popluations" i.e. developers and business people.

The public housing areas are a nightmare and need to be trimmed down at the very least. Portsmouth has done a good job with integrating newer neighborhoods with mixed density in the footprint of old public housing. Having a sea of public housing from St. Paul's to Tidewater will hamper business growth in that direction.

Norfolk shoulders too much of the weight for public and low-income housing for the metro area anyway. Putting people that live in these housing quagmires into subsidised privately owned housing is the first step in getting them on their feet.

[rusthebuss]

Having the CBD surrounded by slums does not sit well with other "certain popluations" i.e. developers and business people.

The public housing areas are a nightmare and need to be trimmed down at the very least.  Portsmouth has done a good job with integrating newer neighborhoods with mixed density in the footprint of old public housing.  Having a sea of public housing from St. Paul's to Tidewater will hamper business growth in that direction.

Norfolk shoulders too much of the weight for public and low-income housing for the metro area anyway.  Putting people that live in these housing quagmires into subsidised privately owned housing is the first step in getting them on their feet.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It all depends on the people. You can give someone something and see how they take care of it, then you can make someone earn it and then SEE HOW THEY TAKE CARE OF IT!!!!! That's the problem today, we need to make people on welfare earn it. They could go work for the city or clean trash along the roads or something and in return they get their housing and education. You can not make someone better themselves! They have to want to do it and thats 90% of the problem. They should be happy they have what they have and not on the streets!

[JPN0731]

It all depends on the people. You can give someone something and see how they take care of it, then you can make someone earn it and then SEE HOW THEY TAKE CARE OF IT!!!!! That's the problem today, we need to make people on welfare earn it. They could go work for the city or clean trash along the roads or something and in return they get their housing and education. You can not make someone better themselves! They have to want to do it and thats 90% of the problem. They should be happy they have what they have and not on the streets!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Uhm a lot of the people on welfare are working but on $5.15 an hour it is not that easy to make ends meet. And most of the city workers doing jobs like parking garage attendants, street cleaners, etc. are from a very low income background.

Rather than being bitter and nasty towards people who are worse off than oneself, it helps to look at real solutions. Norfolk is a Democratic stronghold city and the thought of pushing all the people in public housing into the streets (yet again... East Ghent) is not going to sit well with the constituancy who votes, especially those living in areas like Ghent and Larchmont who run the city.

The real solution is working with people to get them new housing. Just pushing them out moves the poverty from one area (i.e. East Ghent) to another (Park Place). Before judging another person's walk in life, try on their shoes for awhile. You may find that even though those shoes were free, they aren't a very good fit...

[urbanfan]

Uhm a lot of the people on welfare are working but on $5.15 an hour it is not that easy to make ends meet.  And most of the city workers doing jobs like parking garage attendants, street cleaners, etc. are from a very low income background. 

Rather than being bitter and nasty towards people who are worse off than oneself, it helps to look at real solutions.  Norfolk is a Democratic stronghold city and the thought of pushing all the people in public housing into the streets (yet again... East Ghent) is not going to sit well with the constituancy who votes, especially those living in areas like Ghent and Larchmont who run the city.

The real solution is working with people to get them new housing.  Just pushing them out moves the poverty from one area (i.e. East Ghent) to another (Park Place).  Before judging another person's walk in life, try on their shoes for awhile.  You may find that even though those shoes were free, they aren't a very good fit...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry, have to agree with russ the bus on this one. I see it first hand in my sister. At one time it was so easy to get welfare and housing. Although, now the government is starting to crack down on free loaders. However, we as a nation tend to give things away without any real requirements. The whole idea of welfare is great but it should only be temporary. I did whatever I had to to keep my head above water including working three different minimum wage jobs to pay the bills. People on welfare could do more to help themselves and I think they would if welfare wasn't so much easier. Now we can't generalize and I know that there are some people on welfare who have three kids and don't have time to work, and there are special cases but in general the welfare system needs to have more requirements and time limits in its use.

[rusthebuss]

Uhm a lot of the people on welfare are working but on $5.15 an hour it is not that easy to make ends meet.  And most of the city workers doing jobs like parking garage attendants, street cleaners, etc. are from a very low income background. 

Rather than being bitter and nasty towards people who are worse off than oneself, it helps to look at real solutions.  Norfolk is a Democratic stronghold city and the thought of pushing all the people in public housing into the streets (yet again... East Ghent) is not going to sit well with the constituancy who votes, especially those living in areas like Ghent and Larchmont who run the city.

The real solution is working with people to get them new housing.  Just pushing them out moves the poverty from one area (i.e. East Ghent) to another (Park Place).  Before judging another person's walk in life, try on their shoes for awhile.  You may find that even though those shoes were free, they aren't a very good fit...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I did live that life first of all and I went to BTW. I know exactly how that walk of life is. I wanted to make myself better and I did it. I grew up with people on welfare and I know their attitude. They like playing the system and I'm not talking about all of them or any race at that matter! They get comfortable and then demand more! And then the rest of the tax payers pay for their contentness!

[rusthebuss]

Apparently you don't know your areas because most of that area i lived in was old run down houses from the 40's. I don't have a guilty conscience and i was waiting for some lib to throw that out like they always do. I never really got to see my dad from working all the time and we were always getting power and water cut off. We scrambled for a long time. And that area is not like your typical middle class area with all the crime that goes on in there. Gun shots going off all the time and houses getting broke into all the time.

[JPN0731]

Many of us have less than ideal backgrounds. I grew up with a single mother in about fifteen different houses/trailers. Free lunch, food stamps and the Red Cross cheese was what I ate on when I was growing up. My mom worked swings and nights and still had to be on welfare from time to time. Boo hoo but I still managed to get a Master's degree before I was 30 and serve my country for four years as well. Does that make me a better person than anyone else? Hardly.

Still, this has nothing to do with the fact of Norfolk's housing situation and solutions. I guess I am "some lib" because I think that the city should work to erradicate huge swathes of slums and housing and at least give the people who live there some options.

Edited May 17, 2005 by JPN0731

[rusthebuss]

Many of us have less than ideal backgrounds.  I grew up with a single mother in about fifteen different houses/trailers.  Free lunch, food stamps and the Red Cross cheese was what I ate on when I was growing up.  My mom worked swings and nights and still had to be on welfare from time to time.  Boo hoo but I still managed to get a Master's degree before I was 30 and serve my country for four years as well.  Does that make me a better person than anyone else? Hardly.

Still, this has nothing to do with the fact of Norfolk's housing situation and solutions.  I guess I am "some lib" because I think that the city should work to erradicate huge swathes of slums and housing and at least give the people who live there some options.

Or that I point out that your neighborhood may not have been so bad.  That's funny though because when there was the post going about the people moving here and I said "avoid 23513" you were very defensive saying "what's wrong with 23513?"  I guess there is a lot from the way you tell it now.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think giving houses away will help them but I think it will hurt them. The education is their option. They don't take it! There is sooo much free money for education out there it is ridiculous! Most of the people in the projects are high school drop outs. I seen it with my own eyes. If they don't want out why should we give them a free ride and give them something that an average tax payer busts his @ss for? Thats what is not fair. I do believe that we need to help each other and we all need help when we fall down but when you have generation after generation there something is wrong! I never said I was better than anyone, and I have never felt that way. The only way life can be made better for them is that they take advantage of the opportunities that are given to them and better themselves. They are the key and they have to unlock their potential. You and I can't unlock that!

[JPN0731]

Rather than flaming or feuding with you on this topic, I decided to delete my posts with the nasty tone. Like I said you would probably be surprised at how much more we'd have in common than not.

I agree that eductaion is the key. People have no clue that if they gradaute and go to TCC and they are poor they can get Pell Grants like crazy. I got tons of $$ through the Commonwealth Grant.

I think benefits should be tied to work. If someone is at Popeye's or McD's and makes barely anything the gov't should give them some aid or tax breaks before it gives it to someone lounging on the couch. Welfare as an aid (temporary) can be a blessing. Welfare as a way of life is poison. But for the government it is easier (and probably cheaper in the short term) to throw money at the problem than pay people to investigate and fix the rampant fraud.

[rusthebuss]

Rather than flaming or feuding with you on this topic, I decided to delete my posts with the nasty tone.

Edited May 17, 2005 by rusthebuss

[vdogg]

I feel lucky at times having been on both sides of this issue cause i can see both points of view. When i was growing up in Michigan my family was very well off and i could have cared less about the issues of affordable housing and homelessness. It all came crashing to an abrupt end when upjohn (the company my Mom worked for) merged with this company named pharmacia to become pharmacia and upjohn (today you know them as pfizer). There was only one big problem though, they decided to shift most of the headquarters ops to Sweden and get rid of the top level management here (of which my Mom was apart). Needless to say we lost EVERYTHING, and in a manner of 6 months we were on the streets. I would never wish that fate and that life on anyone. My mother did nothing to deserve to be on the streets, she was college educated and worked hard all of her life. In that manner it upsets me when people automatically assume that persons down on their luck somehow "put themselves there" or "deserve to be there". I have lived it, and i can't think of many who willingly put themselves in that position. It is part of the sickness of the human spirit that we have today when one cannot find compassion for their fellow man. While i agree that having concentrated poverty and slums is not a good idea, we cannot simply brush people aside because of assumptions made about how they must have lived their lives to get there in the first place. To truly become the cosmopolitan city that i know Norfolk (and Va. Beach) can be the affordable housing and poverty issues must be dealt with.

[rusthebuss]

I feel lucky at times having been on both sides of this issue cause i can see both points of view. When i was growing up in Michigan my family was very well off and i could have cared less about the issues of affordable housing and homelessness. It all came crashing to an abrupt end when upjohn (the company my Mom worked for) merged with this company named pharmacia to become pharmacia and upjohn (today you know them as pfizer). There was only one big problem though, they decided to shift most of the headquarters ops to Sweden and get rid of the top level management here (of which my Mom was apart). Needless to say we lost EVERYTHING, and in a manner of 6 months we were on the streets. I would never wish that fate and that life on anyone. My mother did nothing to deserve to be on the streets, she was college educated and worked hard all of her life. In that manner it upsets me when people automatically assume that persons down on their luck somehow "put themselves there" or "deserve to be there". I have lived it, and i can't think of many who willingly put themselves in that position. It is part of the sickness of the human spirit that we have today when one cannot find compassion for their fellow man. While i agree that having concentrated poverty and slums is not a good idea, we cannot simply brush people aside because of assumptions made about how they must have lived their lives to get there in the first place. To truly become the cosmopolitan city that i know Norfolk (and Va. Beach) can be the affordable housing and poverty issues must be dealt with.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I guess people miss my point! I have no problem helping someone when they are down and out. None of us are safe from being put on the streets even with college education. But when there is generation after generation living in public housing and they are not attempting to get out, that is the problem. Norfolk has alot of generations staying in these projects and they are always crying for free stuff.

[urbanvb]

Sounds like what you are saying is the break the cycle of poverty which is probably very difficult. I guess it depends on the outlook of the person. If the mother instills in the child this is just the way it is and to accept it the kid might do so. On the other hand if the parents/mother instills in the child to look above their situation then the child might seek to escape such a lifestyle. I realize this is not 100% the way it is but I think a lot of what someone 'knows' and 'feels' is because of the way they are raised.

[rusthebuss]

Sounds like what you are saying is the break the cycle of poverty which is probably very difficult. I guess it depends on the outlook of the person. If the mother instills in the child this is just the way it is and to accept it the kid might do so. On the other hand if the parents/mother instills in the child to look above their situation then the child might seek to escape such a lifestyle. I realize this is not 100% the way it is but I think a lot of what someone 'knows' and 'feels' is because of the way they are raised.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with you all the way!!! Alot of it, just like everything in life, is how you are raised.