Hampton Roads Off-Topic Talk

[jeffconn]

On 6/26/2017 at 4:36 PM, BFG said:

I know that in the early-70s, Norfolk had a population of a little more than 300,000; it's now down to under 250K. Chesapeake and VB have a lot more land, so I'm not sure how Norfolk can get back to those 1970s numbers, unless they build a bunch of apartments downtown and finally get started on SPQ. Wishful thinking: they could always merge with Portsmouth and/or Suffolk.

Norfolk's population bottomed out around 2000 at 234,000 but has been rising slowly since then. The estimated pop. for 2016 was 245,000.

[baobabs727]

Hampton Roads:  60,000 posts!!

Edited July 26, 2017 by baobabs727

[urbanlife]

On 6/26/2017 at 1:36 PM, BFG said:

By 2020, Chesapeake is expected to become the second-largest city in the Commonwealth.

https://pilotonline.com/news/local/chesapeake-will-become-state-s-second-largest-city-by-new/article_5d515b00-9905-56f5-a630-a3984311a786.html

I know that in the early-70s, Norfolk had a population of a little more than 300,000; it's now down to under 250K. Chesapeake and VB have a lot more land, so I'm not sure how Norfolk can get back to those 1970s numbers, unless they build a bunch of apartments downtown and finally get started on SPQ. Wishful thinking: they could always merge with Portsmouth and/or Suffolk.

Through density and transit expansion. Basically by acting like a city. 

[baobabs727]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Metropolitan_Statistical_Areas

Pop. Growth 2010-2016:

Austin  +19.82%

Raleigh +15.25%

Nashville +11.63%

Charlotte + 11.61%

Jacksonville +9.86%

Atlanta     +9.5%

NOVA      +8.8%

Richmond +6.09%

---------------------

VB/ORF    +2.99%

This just continues the trends since the mid-1990s.

Any thoughts? Any plans? Any hope? Does it matter? 

[urbanvb]

I used to post similar findings but I kinda gave up. Personally, I feel some good things are happening such as the high speed cable in Virginia Beach, the proposed biotech park, Norfolk landing ADP and such. I think the region will continue to gain a little ground on landing good jobs but I don't ever see us gaining very much on these other metro areas. I'd really like say differently but based on history I just don't see it. Maybe I'm wrong and the Facebooks and Googles of the world swoop in and set up shop. I can only dream... 

[baobabs727]

4 minutes ago, urbanvb said:

I used to post similar findings but I kinda gave up. Personally, I feel some good things are happening such as the high speed cable in Virginia Beach, the proposed biotech park, Norfolk landing ADP and such. I think the region will continue to gain a little ground on landing good jobs but I don't ever see us gaining very much on these other metro areas. I'd really like say differently but based on history I just don't see it. Maybe I'm wrong and the Facebooks and Googles of the world swoop in and set up shop. I can only dream... 

I feel the exact same way. Yet sometimes I find myself raging, raging against the dying of the light.

Truly, dreaming is fundamental.

[BFG]

You know, as much as I like this area and want to see it grow into the markets listed above (many of which are the same size or smaller than HR), it gets frustrating seeing such stagnant growth. Hopefully all the proposed businesses coming here (biotech, the fiber lines) along with ADP, will change things in the next 10 years.

I'm tired of being surpassed by other cities in every category imaginable. I'm tired of stick in the mud fuddy-duddies holding the region hostage with their old views. 

The local economic development office hired a guy said to be a game changer and has helped many other metros like Orlando and Raleigh grow. Hopefully he can give this area the boost it needs. We need to get above 2 million people.

Edited August 2, 2017 by BFG

[BFG]

I've thought about this a little, and I'll admit, HR has made great moves in the last 5 years. The NEON District, Ikea, The Main, the fiber lines, biotech park, and a few other things were all either pipe dreams or speculation.

I think the Sacramento Kings rumors started around this time 5 years ago, so the arena wasn't public knowledge. And with that could come arena football. Plus ODU is now FBS with a bowl victory.

So....there's been a lot of progress, but there's still a long way to go. This area has to find a way to translate all that cool stuff into more people coming here, and not just moving from Chesapeake to Norfolk or from Norfolk to Suffolk. Also...don't just get complacent because we're getting an Ikea or Wegman's. Keep the momentum rolling.

[Virginia City]

It's frustrating. With the exception of Nova all of those cities are THE dominate city in their area. we have many independent cities that enjoy fighting with each other and holding each other back as well as people within their own city councils that like to hold their own city back. Without, at least, the Southside becoming one city you will continue to see very little growth. 

[Norfolk757Kid]

I know this is far fetched for such a car-centric region, but with the discussion of what to do with the 64 HOV lanes ongoing, what about converting a stretch of the HOV on 64 from Wards Corner into Chesapeake to commuter rail? The Hampton Roads Beltway part. It's a relatively straight, uninterrupted shot through the three biggest cities in Hampton Roads. Suspended walkways could connect to multiple stations or stops along the line, linking up with Norview, the Airport, Military Circle, the current Tide line and then on to the hinterlands of Chesapeake. Bigger cities have similar setups all across the country. I rode something like it in Chicago this summer past miles of backed up traffic. And its much cheaper than a cab or Uber. Just wondering if anyone's thought about an idea like this?

[Virginia City]

Trains are for the poor and young people and Virginia Beach wants nothing to do with that. 

[chris722]

On 12/4/2015 at 2:51 AM, BFG said:

There's been more talk about the possibility of the Hampton Roads and Richmond markets merging to create a "megaregion". This is from a breakfast held yesterday...apparently, this idea is gaining traction.

http://hrscene.com/push-together-the-richmondhampton-roads-mega-region/

In 150 years.  It will happen naturally as both areas expand out; reminds me of Northeastern Ohio, or Southwestern Ohio; it eventually happened on its own but there wasn't anything anyone could do on purpose to bring that about.  And both areas are still challenged economically. 

On 8/2/2017 at 1:33 PM, baobabs727 said:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Metropolitan_Statistical_Areas

Pop. Growth 2010-2016:

Austin  +19.82%

Raleigh +15.25%

Nashville +11.63%

Charlotte + 11.61%

Jacksonville +9.86%

Atlanta     +9.5%

NOVA      +8.8%

Richmond +6.09%

---------------------

VB/ORF    +2.99%

This just continues the trends since the mid-1990s.

Any thoughts? Any plans? Any hope? Does it matter? 

There just isn't any logical reason why Hampton Roads would experience 20% growth over a similar amount of time.  We're lucky if we can maintain 2% growth year over year for the foreseeable future.  I'll take 3 million by 2060.  Conservative estimate. 

[BFG]

On 8/28/2017 at 6:03 PM, chris722 said:

In 150 years.  It will happen naturally as both areas expand out; reminds me of Northeastern Ohio, or Southwestern Ohio; it eventually happened on its own but there wasn't anything anyone could do on purpose to bring that about.  And both areas are still challenged economically. 

There just isn't any logical reason why Hampton Roads would experience 20% growth over a similar amount of time.  We're lucky if we can maintain 2% growth year over year for the foreseeable future.  I'll take 3 million by 2060.  Conservative estimate. 

Jobs. Most of the top 5 regions on that list (Austin, Raleigh, Nashville, Charlotte) have had job growth, and issue that has hurt us tremendously. We gotta stop relying on military so much and lure more jobs like ADP.

Edited September 12, 2017 by BFG

[BFG]

The local Chamber of Commerce plans to visit Nashville at the end of November, to see how it's become a thriving metro.

https://pilotonline.com/inside-business/news/economic-development/chamber-set-to-visit-nashville-to-learn-how-it-became/article_0a89d9d6-6eb3-5dae-86fa-4cff762af085.html

This is the kind of stuff I like to see. 

[Virginia City]

This is what I have been hoping would happen.

[carolinaboy]

Let's think about some of those cities/metros listed and compare to Hampton Roads.

Nashville: State Capital, Professional Sports (NFL, NHL), Metro Pop 1,582,264, Vanderbilt University, Country Music Capital, Huge marketing and identity around country music, Grand Ole Opry, room to grow, Nashville International Airport (#35)

Raleigh: State Capital, Professional Sports (NHL), Metro Pop 1,130,490, NC State University (close to UNC and Duke), Research Triangle Park, huge marketing and identity around RTP, room to grow, RDU (#39)

Austin: State Capital, University of Texas, Metro Pop 1,716,219, high tech city (Oracle, Dell), Circuit of the Americas race course (a big deal), AB International Airport (#34), Music Capital of Texas, room to grow, marketing around their music scene and being "funky" or weird

Charlotte: Largest city in NC, Banking hub, Professional Sports (NFL, NBA) Metro Pop 2,474,314, Charlotte motor speedway, home of NASCAR, huge marketing around NASCAR, Light Rail, room to grow

 

Hampton Roads: 8 (I think) cities that usually don't play well together, no real identity with seven cities, Hampton Roads moniker.....doesn't help with national identity, military based economy first, tourism second, everything else a distant third, no professional sports, no major national university nearby (no offense ODU), Metro Pop 1,724,876, hemmed in by the ocean on the east, swamp on the west, rural America to the south........no where to grow but north along a narrow neck of land (or up), not really known for anything nationally except being a military town, ORF (#70) and nowhere to grow.

 

I'm not pointing this out to be negative but just to show that Hampton Roads or Norfolk or VA Beach faces challenges some other metros may not. I think it's high time "Hampton Roads" goes away and each city can market itself how it wants to. I think being known as Hampton Roads is more a bad thing than good.

But despite all the "shortcomings" the area has: William and Mary, ODU, EVMS, NOrfolk State, VA Wesleyan, Christopher Newport, TCC, light rail, 2 international airports, a very busy port, Scope, Chrysler Hall, Zoo, Botanical Gardens, Nauticus, a cruise terminal, Opera House, Chrysler museum, the oceanfront, Old Town, world renown Norfolk Sentara Hospital, the Tides, the Admirals, 2 ampitheatres, Sandler Center, Ferguson Center, Childrens museum, MacArthur museum, Slover library, Downtown Norfolk, Downtown Portsmouth, VB Town Center and alot of stuff I don't even know about

[BFG]

2 hours ago, carolinaboy said:

I'm not pointing this out to be negative but just to show that Hampton Roads or Norfolk or VA Beach faces challenges some other metros may not. I think it's high time "Hampton Roads" goes away and each city can market itself how it wants to. I think being known as Hampton Roads is more a bad thing than good.

This is something the Chamber of Commerce needs to start considering. With Norfolk poised to become the 3rd most populated city in the state, it will be even harder to define the dominant city. VB and Chesapeake have 450K and close to 250K, respectively, but they are still seen as giant suburbs. VB is working to change that with the resort strip and Town Center. The quirkiness of seven independent cities could actually be used to our advantage if the cities wouldn't treat regionalism as the plague. It could be a much smaller version of the five boroughs in NYC, with its own eclectic cultures.

I like it here, but points like the ones you made really make it frustrating when I see the potential not being realized because each city blocks the others' progress like a game of chess. How does a region larger than Raleigh and Nashville underachieve on so many levels? It's absolutely frustrating, and I hope the Chamber comes back from Nashville with real solutions. That shouldn't be the only city they visit.

Edited September 21, 2017 by BFG

[BFG]

HRT wants to overhaul its current service, but at a price.

https://pilotonline.com/news/government/virginia/hampton-roads-transit-wants-to-overhaul-bus-services-but-the/article_ed24056e-5d23-5d42-8990-b8777b0dc9d4.html

LRT expansion is a good decade away. Dunno if BRT could happen quicker, but if you want to give people an option outside of driving, this is a good start. Connect the region with the popular routes, VB Blvd., Mercury Blvd., Lynnhaven Pkwy., Greenbrier Pky., Jefferson Ave., and I could rattle off a few more, plus the Interstates.

I don't always wanna drive, considering how spread out it is here. If you gave me a somewhat streamlined option to get from say, downtown to Greenbrier, with maybe one transfer, I'd be very happy.

[Virginia City]

Unless those busses have their own lanes then they are going to get stuck in the same traffic that everybody else is in. That's why LRT is so important, they don't get caught in traffic.

[BFG]

Economists think HR's economy will finally recover soon. But there's other issues, like growing the population, esp younger people. 

https://pilotonline.com/business/consumer/hampton-roads-may-finally-leave-the-recession-in-its-dust/article_7c36b7ad-cfc9-556e-93cd-18eeaf201523.html

[Virginia City]

Virginia Beach shifting focus from military to high tech jobs. Become a Silicon Beach as someone on here said. That would go a long way in attracting a younger population with disposable income.

[baobabs727]

A report on the Hampton Roads bigwigs' visit to Nashville to learn about how they've been so successful down there. 

One Takeaway: Nashville has always bet big, not afraid to lose.  They built an arena without a tenant. And now their mayor credits that big bet as the main impetus for everything that has come since.

https://pilotonline.com/inside-business/news/economic-development/managing-growth-is-key-for-nashville-leaders/article_cf83721a-415c-5504-8e45-8642fdea0ca6.html

Edited December 1, 2017 by baobabs727

[BFG]

Quote

[Nashville Mayor Megan Barry] touted the efficiencies of consolidated government – such as having one police force, one school system and the ability to more easily get a metro region focused on the same agenda. But efficiency is just one part of the overall economic development picture.

This would be our biggest hurdle. I think it would be a good start to regionalism, but how do you combine forces without losing something in the shuffle? I think one police force or school board is a sound idea, but with the latter, each city needs to get to a closer level. Right now, VB's schools are miles above Norfolk. Maybe in another five years? The article also said Nashville has a city-county government system, something I really wish we had here, but now will never happen. Perhaps that's what this area should've done in 1963: merge P.A. and Norfolk Counties to become one larger county, which then forms a city-county system with Norfolk.

Anyway, I hope the Chamber came away with some tips that will really help Hampton Roads grow. I actually do like it here, but after visiting Denver last week, I could see where we need improvement. If Norfolk and VB could work together, think outside the box, and take more chances, this area could thrive. Norfolk is starting to do that, but would VB be willing to work with them and not against (and vice versa)?

Edited December 1, 2017 by BFG

[chris722]

On 9/11/2017 at 11:41 PM, BFG said:

Jobs. Most of the top 5 regions on that list (Austin, Raleigh, Nashville, Charlotte) have had job growth, and issue that has hurt us tremendously. We gotta stop relying on military so much and lure more jobs like ADP.

And I agree.  One of the reasons why people so desperately wanted the second Amazon headquarters built here.  Even though 50,000 workers is a drop in the bucket, it can disrupt the auxiliary situations in Hampton Roads and cause us to grow in ways that are not as easy to connect to the presence of Amazon's workers.  But a distribution center would also be great.  I like what Amazon did with that abandoned mall outside of the Cleveland metro.  

On 12/1/2017 at 12:07 PM, BFG said:

This would be our biggest hurdle. I think it would be a good start to regionalism, but how do you combine forces without losing something in the shuffle? I think one police force or school board is a sound idea, but with the latter, each city needs to get to a closer level. Right now, VB's schools are miles above Norfolk. Maybe in another five years? The article also said Nashville has a city-county government system, something I really wish we had here, but now will never happen. Perhaps that's what this area should've done in 1963: merge P.A. and Norfolk Counties to become one larger county, which then forms a city-county system with Norfolk.

Anyway, I hope the Chamber came away with some tips that will really help Hampton Roads grow. I actually do like it here, but after visiting Denver last week, I could see where we need improvement. If Norfolk and VB could work together, think outside the box, and take more chances, this area could thrive. Norfolk is starting to do that, but would VB be willing to work with them and not against (and vice versa)?

So far that has not happened.  The outlet in Norfolk is a great example of how that does not happen here.  Light rail is another.  On the other hand, if Norfolk and Virginia Beach put up their money Virginia Beach could have scored that arena. Virginia Beach did not want to take that risk on by themselves, and so it did not happen.  That is how things are done in Hampton Roads.  One city goes out on a limb and all seven cities benefit.  There is enough money around here for so many things, but not enough money in any one city to accomplish much of anything.  Most people who vote, are "not in my backyard" and do not mind getting something for free without paying anything.  A prime example of that is Chesapeake.  It is what it is. 

[BFG]

Part of Inside Business's series of reports about the Chamber of Commerce visiting Nashville last week, and the ideas they picked up. I'm crossing my fingers that they brought back some ideas to help elevate the entire region.

https://pilotonline.com/inside-business/news/economic-development/arena-project-was-catalyst-for-nashville-s-transformation/article_38d9a697-0412-58b3-9f42-4bd0a0552f24.html