Hampton Roads Off-Topic Talk

[HRVA]

Using the 15% deployed estimate in the article & 83k enlisted in the region this would add 12,450 for our region in the census. The other 85% was already counted towards our totals. 

[Mountain_Junior]

Using the 15% deployed estimate in the article & 83k enlisted in the region this would add 12,450 for our region in the census. The other 85% was already counted towards our totals. 

So it’s not super clear in the article but what I think it’s saying is that military personnel will now be counted where they are stationed, like Hampton Roads, instead of where they initially enlisted(this is known as the home of record).

The article says that previously “all military members serving abroad during the head count” which included “both stationed and temporarily deployed troops” would be assigned to a state’s population totals “based on the addresses provided when they enlisted.” This means that in the past, if Sgt. Joe lived in Iowa when he enlisted, that would be his “home of record”. So even though he actually lives near Fort Story because that’s where the Army has assigned him, the census will count him as a resident of Iowa because that’s where he lived when he joined the Army.

The article then says that “After years of advocacy by lawmakers and community leaders from areas with military bases nearby, the Census Bureau decided to make a switch for the 2020 census and count deployed troops at the bases or ports they are assigned away from on Census Day, April 1.”

This is because places like VA and others that have big mil populations are basically saying “these military personnel live in our states, use our infrastructure, send their kids to our schools, rely on our services, etc. but if you count them elsewhere, we don’t get the funding and representation that should come along with that.” I think it’s probably more about congressional representation but you get the idea.

The confusion is that at any point, about 15% of those personnel assigned to Hampton Roads (or any other base/area) are deployed overseas to the Middle East, Africa, Europe, etc. DOD is saying that they can’t provide that deployment data in time for the census deadline. But the census wants to count Sgt. Joe as “not in Virginia” if he’s in Africa at the time of the census. So that 15% of 83K won’t be counted as “in Hampton Roads” for census purposes. They’ll be counted as “overseas.” The remaining 85% will be counted toward our total here (instead of their home of record), which is a change from previous years.

Anyone else read it differently?






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[HRVA]

1 hour ago, Mountain_Junior said:

The article says that previously “all military members serving abroad during the head count” which included “both stationed and temporarily deployed troops” would be assigned to a state’s population totals “based on the addresses provided when they enlisted.” This means that in the past, if Sgt. Joe lived in Iowa when he enlisted, that would be his “home of record”. So even though he actually lives near Fort Story because that’s where the Army has assigned him, the census will count him as a resident of Iowa because that’s where he lived when he joined the Army.

 

 “all military members serving abroad during the head count” which included “both stationed and temporarily deployed troops”

I interpreted this as if you’re deployed to the Middle East or stationed in Japan/South Korea/ Germany/etc then you were previously counted in your home state but now you’ll be counted where you’re stationed. 

From another article linked in the article in question:

“For the last census in 2010, all overseas military personnel were counted at the address they provided at enlistment. But in 2020, deployed service members will be counted as residents of the bases or ports they were temporarily assigned away from, according to a memo released this week by the Census Bureau.”

And from the 2010 census FAQ:

“How are current U.S. servicemembers counted in the decennial census?

In the 2010 Census, residency in housing units is determined using the concept of "usual residence." Usual residence is defined as the place where a person lives and sleeps most of the time. This place is not necessarily the same as the person's voting residence or legal residence.”

It goes on to discuss that if someone is away for a period of more than two months at the time the form is received that they should not be included.  So people that are stationed in Norfolk, not deployed, and living in the area will be counted just like any resident. The change is that those that are deployed will now be allocated to Virginia as well. 

The only unclear thing for me is if you are stationed abroad, where are you counted?  But the larger impact for our region is how the deployed members are counted so I’m not going to dig for that answer. 

This could help us get a few more federal dollars and we should advocate for as many people as possible to be counted here but I don’t think this will be significant to the region - even if I’m wrong and it’s actually the 83k that wasn’t counted previously. Congressional districts are over 700k people on average and the numbers are going to be spread out amongst at least three of them. 

[urbanvb]

https://pilotonline.com/news/local/transportation/traffic/article_95beca72-4601-51f4-be65-f9d2294d8702.html

This article caught my attention. One of the best examples of an under utilized zipper lane is on 64 heading west which ends just before the high rise bridge. About a week ago I was on this highway and came upon brake light central for what seemed like miles! Traffic was backed up from before the Greenbrier exit heading west for as far as I could see . At first I was hating myself for not jumping on Military highway but I quickly noticed that hardly anyone was using the left lane. I squeezed over there and passed a zillion cars backed up forever! The left lane was clear as far as I could see. I passed so many people while feeling guilty yet unapologetic at the same time. I was able to merge to a right lane before it ended and felt almost disbelief that I passed so many people just barely creeping forward. Ouch! 

 

Edited May 24, 2019 by urbanvb

[BFG]

tHRive, a local young professionals organization that falls under the Chamber of Commerce, unveiled a regional report of what millennials find important moving forward. 

https://pilotonline.com/inside-business/news/article_068ffc22-8620-11e9-8ba6-835db6b0531d.html

[vdogg]

I'm going to be real interested to see the actual census numbers next year. The level of construction activity throughout the area combined with the increased amount of traffic is simply not indicative of a region that is losing population via out-migration. I feel as though the out-migration estimates may be a little overdone.

[baobabs727]

9 hours ago, vdogg said:

I'm going to be real interested to see the actual census numbers next year. The level of construction activity throughout the area combined with the increased amount of traffic is simply not indicative of a region that is losing population via out-migration. I feel as though the out-migration estimates may be a little overdone.

Maybe so. However, recently I did watch a video on VBTV of a VBCC informal session where they were advised via an econ dev presentation that our region's out-migration from the prime working group cohort aged 25-54 or so was significant. 

Edited June 13, 2019 by baobabs727

[vdogg]

2 minutes ago, baobabs727 said:

Maybe so. However, recently I did watch a video on VBTV of a VBCC informal session where they were advised via an econ dev presentation that our region's out-migration from the prime working group cohort aged 25-54 or so was significant. 

But how much of that is accounted for by the military? Often people return home once they’re discharged, I wonder if that skews the numbers during periods of military reductions like we’ve had over most of the past decade? Sequestration had a big economic impact and I’m wondering if since now the funding is returning to historical levels if some of the previous out migration might be reversing.

[HRVA]

I can’t remember which city it was but there was a presentation that mentioned population growth in the region had more to do with longevity than people moving here. They didn’t cite it but it undoubtedly plays a big part. 

[vdogg]

https://pilotonline.com/inside-business/news/article_3855e02a-9131-11e9-a5fb-5fdda7cabfea.html

A pretty sark assessment of our current labor shortage. This, above anything else, is what is responsible for top tier companies passing us by. This is something we need to address... quickly.

[BFG]

Lionsbridge FC, a USL-2 team on the Peninsula, is playing the Richmond Kickers in an upcoming game. The Kickers are USL-1. 

https://pilotonline.com/sports/other/soccer/article_c556041a-a1a7-11e9-8bfd-aba08abc2799.html

They play at CNU's stadium, and apparently have a solid following. I've never heard of this team, nor did I realize they were in USL-2, but that's awesome. Apparently, Virginia Beach also now has a USL-2 team, Virginia Beach United FC, which started playing at the Sportsplex this year. VBUFC is not to be confused with Virginia Beach City FC, which used to play at the Sportsplex, but now calls Powhatan Field in Norfolk home.

One thing's for sure, we apparently love our soccer in Tidewater!  I'm curious to see if we once again scored high in the Top 10 Nielsen markets for the Women's World Cup.

[urbanvb]

Raleigh has lots of towers on the way. Sigh.

https://www.wraltechwire.com/2019/08/09/developers-plan-30-story-office-tower-on-fayetteville-street-in-raleigh/

[vdogg]

8 hours ago, urbanvb said:

Raleigh has lots of towers on the way. Sigh.

https://www.wraltechwire.com/2019/08/09/developers-plan-30-story-office-tower-on-fayetteville-street-in-raleigh/

We could have had a nearly 30-story office tower in downtown Norfolk years ago, if city council actually had vision...

[metalman]

If the waterside tower is Harvey Lindsey and the Gateway Tower is Harvey Lindsey, why couldn’t they envision another 30 story instead of just 20.  Was Clark Nexen really taking up 20 floors?  No, ‘cause their VB tower is only 9 office floors total.    Damn damn.

[Mountain_Junior]

On 8/10/2019 at 9:53 PM, urbanvb said:

Raleigh has lots of towers on the way. Sigh.

https://www.wraltechwire.com/2019/08/09/developers-plan-30-story-office-tower-on-fayetteville-street-in-raleigh/

Raleigh growing faster than Hampton Roads isn’t really news.

And it’s not the fault of any one city or city council.  It’s been understood for some time that we have a government structure that fosters harmful in-fighting, drives away businesses, and scuttles the types of cooperative efforts that make regions thrive. And it’s been happening for a century or more.

 

1928
Daily Press: UNIFICATION OF EFFORT URGED OF INTERESTS AND CITIES ON HAMPTON ROADS
“Believing that the industrial and commercial interests of the two sides of the Port of Hampton Roads are the same and that the establishment of separate municipalities cannot overcome economic conditions, J. Gordon Bohannan, chairman of the State Port Authority of Virginia and members of the port authority met in conference yesterday with city officials of the Hampton Roads cities … in an effort to secure greater cooperation between the cities of the port… Realizing that the problem was too big to solve without serious and long consideration … the Port Authority chairman … ask[ed] each of the four Hampton Roads cities: Newport News, Norfolk, Hampton and Portsmouth to appoint committees … to reach some solution to the problem of intercity antipathy which is alleged, to exist between them now.”

1950
Daily Press: PROMISING PORT PROPOSAL
“One of the most unfortunate circumstances of the development of this area has been the separateness of its various segments.… [C]ommunities that have almost everything in common have vied with each other for port business and industrial development while they should have been fighting to bring business to the area…. To the outside world the Hampton Roads area must present a united front if it is to win confidence and trust. An area divided against itself as this area has been is its own worst enemy.”

1974:
Daily Press: DESIGN GROUP URGES END OF IN-FIGHTING IN DEVELOPING REGIONAL TRANSIT SYSTEM
“The Tidewater localities, planning district commissions, and politicians should stop their in-fighting over boundaries and begin working together to formulate a regional transportation system or they will continue to suffer from ‘arterial sclerosis’ of the cities…”

1996:
Virginian-Pilot: CITIZENS SAY A LACK OF COOPERATION HURTS EFFORT AT LURING JOBS
“Citizens attending a neighborhood forum on regional issues Thursday said there was not enough cooperation among Hampton Roads cities to attract corporations that provide good-paying jobs. The citizens also named three other major stumbling blocks to luring major businesses: negative publicity about water problems, uncertainty about defining the region and promoting its strengths and inadequate region-wide transit, including lack of a light-rail system.”

2017
Virginian-Pilot: REGIONAL SUCCESS SUFFERS AS CITIES COMPETE
“Municipal decision-making in Hampton Roads tends to be so inwardly focused that little consideration — if any — goes to how one city’s decisions affect life in another. That’s especially frustrating because while we may each be a resident of individual cities, the borders between municipalities matter little in our daily lives, or in the business we conduct or, really, in how we are perceived by others. … It means that cities compete far more than cooperate … since what benefits one city is not necessarily perceived as helping its neighbor. It means that the region’s cities, representing 1.7 million Virginians, have left uncountable opportunities begging because businesses from beyond the region see individual cities squabbling rather than a cooperating community. … And that leads to the kind of short-sighted choices that end up costing all of us.”

 

History shows that competing localities with conflicting agendas have not and will not deliver on regional aspirations. So no need to waste any astonishment on the fact that disunity has left the region lagging its peers.

Unification of Effort Urged Of Interests and Cities on Hampton Roads
https://www.newspapers.com/image/231534235/

Promising Port Proposal
https://www.newspapers.com/image/231248728/

Design Group Urges End Of In-Fighting In Developing Regional Transit System
https://www.newspapers.com/image/230963735/

Citizens Say a Lack of Cooperation Hurts Effort at Luring Jobs 
https://scholar.lib.vt.edu/VA-news/VA-Pilot/issues/1996/vp960517/05170482.htm

Regional success suffers as cities compete
https://pilotonline.com/opinion/editorial/article_c37d51ac-bf56-5869-8583-9821bd7a5238.html

[urbanvb]

Raleigh is a league of it's own with its well known RTP and large tech presence. Some have called it Silicone Valley East. Having realized this, the small minded attitudes in Hampton Roads will get this region nowhere and unfortunately it doesn't seem to change.

Edited August 15, 2019 by urbanvb

[BFG]

The Pilot is getting rid of its comments section, much to the chagrin of angry baby boomers everywhere. Now where will they go to complain about light rail and whatever local infrastructure?

https://pilotonline.com/news/local/from-pilot/article_3c59fb42-bef5-11e9-86b8-c77a32016dfc.html

[Willy18]

Please Lord I hope they don't find out about this site.

[Mountain_Junior]

The Pilot is getting rid of its comments section, much to the chagrin of angry baby boomers everywhere. Now where will they go to complain about light rail and whatever local infrastructure?
https://pilotonline.com/news/local/from-pilot/article_3c59fb42-bef5-11e9-86b8-c77a32016dfc.html

I have to be honest, I actually enjoy reading the comments. It’s my guilty pleasure


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[vdogg]

23 hours ago, BFG said:

The Pilot is getting rid of its comments section, much to the chagrin of angry baby boomers everywhere. Now where will they go to complain about light rail and whatever local infrastructure?

https://pilotonline.com/news/local/from-pilot/article_3c59fb42-bef5-11e9-86b8-c77a32016dfc.html

Facebook is about to be lit! 

7 hours ago, Willy18 said:

Please Lord I hope they don't find out about this site.

I have broad powers to make sure they don’t disrupt our sanctuary if they do.  The rules of the site are quite clear, and the types of comments those folks make will ensure they won’t be around here for long. 

[Up2313]

I read comments on Facebook often and it is already rediculous. The city (VB) posts stuff and people comment about entirely unrelated things bashing the city. Sometimes I wonder if people in our area are unique in their NIMBY mindset, there seems to be lots of pushback on every little thing. 

[Mountain_Junior]

Raleigh is a league of it's own with its well known RTP and large tech presence. Some have called it Silicone Valley East. Having realized this, the small minded attitudes in Hampton Roads will get this region nowhere and unfortunately it doesn't seem to change.

Yes, I agree that small-minded attitudes are getting us no where but, if by saying that Raleigh is in a league of its own, you are implying that it's an unfair comparison because Raleigh is some special case that Hampton Roads can’t compete with, then I don’t see it that way. It’s not like Raleigh/Durham sits on some deposit of Vibranium that makes Research Triangle Park only possible there. It’s just that leaders in NC saw that their post-war economy was floundering, recognized an opportunity to change it, seized that opportunity, and most importantly, weren’t undermined by local leaders derailing it as part of a zero-sum intercity rivalry. (It’s location straddling Wake and Durham County is no accident) That’s not to say that rivalries don’t exist there, but for a number of reasons it was able to be shepherded through without any of that stopping it.
What I’m saying is that there is nothing that stops us from doing something grand like that here, except for our government structure and the history of hostility in our area.
In terms of government structure, I mean annexation law and how cities grow and find revenue that supports the running of government. Raleigh and other NC cities have grown through annexation whereas HRVA cities could not after all the nearby counties consolidated into independent cities. (This is no judgment on the cities/counties that did consolidate. It was VA law at the time and they would’ve been foolish not to take advantage of it.)

Raleigh annexation history


In HRVA our independent cities grew, as would be expected, and now we had our older cities with other adjacent cities right next to them and all are in effect competing for the same people/businesses/organizations because that’s how they grow and build new revenue streams, not as NC cities do through annexation.
Also, since they don’t exist within counties, and are thus tangent to one another, there is no middle ground, so if a big regional project like RTP is being built somewhere, it HAS to be built in one of our cities(assuming here we’re talking about the contiguous seven cities).
However, once a location in a host city is chosen, the others will often back out or demand a reassessment of the chosen site because to go forward and support that project would be to give the host city an asset(like an industrial park, stadium, airport, etc) that it will then use to market itself as “better than” those surrounding cities. It is a basic zero sum game: a point for that city subtracts a point from my score. Leaders can’t cooperate without looking like they caved to the other cities.
When that cooperation falls through, our cities go it alone and now Hampton Roads has 5 airports, multiple small entertainment venues, a handful of small sports teams, 4 or 5 mini-downtowns, etc., but none of which can compete with another urban area of similar population elsewhere.
In NC, on the other hand, the cities annexed the growing urban areas that were developing on their fringes and as a result, no major city with a competing downtown grows up right on its border. So when it comes time to cooperate on something like RTP, the cities can support it being in between them, within the counties that surround it.
There’s also not the same history of hostility that exists between those cities because Raleigh’s creation myth isn’t that it was founded to stop Durham from taking that area over and Durham doesn’t feel like Raleigh stole its place. (Ref: Norfolk and VB turbulent history here) That’s not to say there aren’t rivalries and in-fighting at times there, but it doesn’t have the effect of derailing regional cooperation every time.
Bottom line, nothing is stopping us but us.



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[Brent114]

I visited the area this weekend (from Richmond).  I grew up in Newport News and Gloucester, still have family all around those parts so I’m pretty familiar with the area....

I had a really great weekend.  I stayed in Chesapeake (Greenbrier) but went into downtown Norfolk for breakfast and lunch Saturday.  The Freemason district was beautiful (cure was a great spot for breakfast!).  We walked from there to Ghent (up Colley to whatever the cross street is with all of retail, Maya-I think thats the name-  is on the corner) and over to Granby (crisscrossing the residential streets  along the  way).  We had lunch on Granby near TCC.  Downtown looked beautiful.  Every time I visit it just keeps getting nicer.   Norfolk does  a much better job at landscaping and litter pick up than Richmond and it shows! 

The Greenbrier area was also nicely landscaped  and clean.  The new Dollar Tree headquarters is handsome (last time I was in that area they had just broken ground  on it).   It was great to see the mixed use project rising beside it too ( I had seen mention of it here a few months back, didn’t know it was so far along). 

 

Anyway, nice job making a good impression.  BTW, the IKEA is the nicest one I’ve visited. The outlets were nice too. 

[Willy18]

Was up in Baltimore for a few days....and I can't tell you how much I appreciate the cleanliness of our cities.  I would assume most of you all have been there...but it is just very, very scary and depressing.  

[urbanvb]

Earlier today I took the exit for VB (264 East ) and took the new fly over. It was so nice not to have a million cars backed up for the exit. Even now, at 5pm on a Friday, Google maps shows no backups. Amazing!