I4 - Beyond the Ultimate [Pre-construction]

[jrs2]

18 hours ago, AndyPok1 said:

I noticed that on the original diagrams and have never understood how it would work... Even the new signage on Hughey confuses me what the left turn onto South does.  Hoping now with everything (except for the Boone connector to SoDo) open, it will all make since.

Anecdotal feedback.  I'm a huge Sunpass proponent.  I think CFX operating EPass is a giant waste of time and money and wish they would just retire it.  But yes, as people said, if you are primarily driving on CFX toll roads, you will get a slight discount, and supposedly more of your toll money stays local.  Personally, I don't think the scale is worth it and the company largely pisses me off with the weird marketing/shade they throw at Sunpass.

If you're ever going to travelling outside of Florida, get the SunPass PRO (or I believe its what EPass calls UNI?).  It is intercompatible with EZPass in the northeast and midwest (which was supposed to be done by 2016 but better late than never).

As far as the bogus charges/clerical/toll by plate.... as long as you have auto-reload (I do $25) on, I've had 0 issues in almost 15 years.  Plus it works at MCO which is so awesome for my airport trips.

is there a plan for a Boone extension south?

[AndyPok1]

1 hour ago, jrs2 said:

is there a plan for a Boone extension south?

Work has been under way for over a year on it I believe.  Basically connecting Boone to Sylvia like this:

 

Here's two pics I took... wow March 7th... almost exactly a year ago... before getting kicked out by security.  There were no active work site signs :shrug:

From Anderson/Boone looking down

From Sylvia looking up:

[jrs2]

1 hour ago, AndyPok1 said:

Work has been under way for over a year on it I believe.  Basically connecting Boone to Sylvia like this:

 

Here's two pics I took... wow March 7th... almost exactly a year ago... before getting kicked out by security.  There were no active work site signs :shrug:

From Anderson/Boone looking down

From Sylvia looking up:

that would be awesome; there has to be more N/S connecting streets into DTO from the SODO area.

Also, regarding the new flyovers at TNPK & I-4 Express Lanes, I just realized how huge that is if you are running late to catch a flight; from I-4 it can save you a few minutes vs the old double trumpet and traffic holdups. 

They also improved the ramp from TNPK SB to 441/528 and the far right lane on the TNPK is a continuous lane and does not cut off anymore before you get to the exit for 441/528.  Been like that for a year or less I think.  Unrelated, but both projects help with quicker access to OIA from I-4.  I would petition the State for a flyover from TNPK SB to 528 EB.  That would save a few more minutes of more double trumpet delays.

Edited March 2, 2022 by jrs2

[HankStrong]

I'm torn because I hate the redundancy, but I really think that CFX does a million times better job locally.

I think if they swallowed Lynx and SunRail it wouldn't be a bad thing at all.  Let a regional entity with a vested interest in the needs of the local region control it all.  I also don't understand why different entities own pieces of the same roads.  One should own the entire road.

[AmIReal]

3 hours ago, AndyPok1 said:

Work has been under way for over a year on it I believe.  Basically connecting Boone to Sylvia like this:

 

Here's two pics I took... wow March 7th... almost exactly a year ago... before getting kicked out by security.  There were no active work site signs :shrug:

From Anderson/Boone looking down

From Sylvia looking up:

I run that area often and they are getting pretty close. An added benefit is that Sylvia will, either by way of Franklin or Division, tie into the path they are working on alongside Division from Gore to Michigan. This will provide a nice bike/ walk lane from SoDo to downtown. Btw, that path is nearly complete also. 

[AmIReal]

What is "the tube"...? 1st I've heard it mentioned.

From wftv- "Another toll lane is coming to the Disney stretch. “That is going to transition from I-4 Ultimate limits down to a single lane only on the westbound side and help give some travel options for folks in the area,” a spokesperson said. Transportation leaders have dubbed it “the tube.” It will run from the Kirkman Road express lane through State Road 536 or Epcot Center Drive."

https://www.wftv.com/news/local/i-4-ultimate-whats-next-project/6IFNGD4ZAJCFJNNI52OGF6TJ74/

[dcluley98]

Yes, there is supposed to be a whole trail corridor from the back of the Orlando Health Area connecting from  Michigan all the way up to this underpass and to connect to the Downtown Connector and "Bicycle Beltway" Loop and Gertrudes walk downtown. 

Will be awesome once it is done. 

https://bikewalkcentralflorida.org/2020/07/26/city-of-orlando-approves-funding-for-two-more-trail-segments/

https://www.orlando.gov/Our-Government/Departments-Offices/Transportation/Downtown-Loop/Orlando-Urban-Trail-Gap

https://bikewalkcentralflorida.org/2019/03/13/orlando-connecting-the-gaps-in-its-trail-network/

Edited March 2, 2022 by dcluley98

[HankStrong]

15 hours ago, AmIReal said:

What is "the tube"...? 1st I've heard it mentioned.

From wftv- "Another toll lane is coming to the Disney stretch. “That is going to transition from I-4 Ultimate limits down to a single lane only on the westbound side and help give some travel options for folks in the area,” a spokesperson said. Transportation leaders have dubbed it “the tube.” It will run from the Kirkman Road express lane through State Road 536 or Epcot Center Drive."

https://www.wftv.com/news/local/i-4-ultimate-whats-next-project/6IFNGD4ZAJCFJNNI52OGF6TJ74/

I don't know if this it is still on the table, but for a long time in the plans there was a double-decker option, where (from about Central Florida Parkway to past 192 if I'm remembering correctly) there was an underground portion that would let you skip all the Disney exits and pop up on the other side.  I've seen it removed and added back and modified and added back and removed again in a few presentations I've watched online about Beyond the Ultimate.  I'm not sure what version, if any, is still in the plans.  I know this looked like it was sort of an extra lane even beyond the toll lanes.

It's possible that's what is being called the tube?

[codypet]

1 hour ago, HankStrong said:

I don't know if this it is still on the table, but for a long time in the plans there was a double-decker option, where (from about Central Florida Parkway to past 192 if I'm remembering correctly) there was an underground portion that would let you skip all the Disney exits and pop up on the other side.  I've seen it removed and added back and modified and added back and removed again in a few presentations I've watched online about Beyond the Ultimate.  I'm not sure what version, if any, is still in the plans.  I know this looked like it was sort of an extra lane even beyond the toll lanes.

It's possible that's what is being called the tube?

At grade is currently in the cards.

[aent]

18 hours ago, AmIReal said:

What is "the tube"...? 1st I've heard it mentioned.

From wftv- "Another toll lane is coming to the Disney stretch. “That is going to transition from I-4 Ultimate limits down to a single lane only on the westbound side and help give some travel options for folks in the area,” a spokesperson said. Transportation leaders have dubbed it “the tube.” It will run from the Kirkman Road express lane through State Road 536 or Epcot Center Drive."

https://www.wftv.com/news/local/i-4-ultimate-whats-next-project/6IFNGD4ZAJCFJNNI52OGF6TJ74/

There is a lot of concern from FDOT and others that where I-4 Ultimate ends on the west side is going to lead to a huge traffic jam because you're having 5 lanes of traffic, plus the Sand Lake and Universal dumping traffic onto the existing westbound I-4 that is only 3 lanes after the express lanes end. There is recognition its probably gonna be a while before the previous I-4 expansion plans can be implemented, so to stop having a major problem there for a decade until the real I-4 Ultimate West gets built, they came up with a plan to try to alleviate that problem more quickly:

1) Extend I-4 Ultimate's current design with the concrete barrier separated dual express lanes down past Sand Lake Road so the Universal and Sand Lake Road traffic can merge between the express lanes have to, plus that bridge will need to be rebuilt to get another lane over Sand Lake Road so might as well do it all.

2) Add an additional lane to I-4 Westbound only that leads past Disney, and separate it with plastic poles, similar to I-95 in South Florida, but that has no exits or anything else but a single tolling point until there is funding to build the proper I-4 Ultimate project to that point. Its supposed to be "easy" to do this as there is enough room to add a lane without reconstructing any bridges.

Construction is supposed to be able to start on this this summer, probably around July on the Sand Lake Rd portion, which is expected to take the longest, and the entire project be compeleted by 2026.

It will get upgraded again to an ultimate form later, allowing more collaboration with Brightline when they need to reconstruct any bridges anyways during their expansion to Tampa, and when more funding is available (hopefully from the I-4 express lanes)

Edited March 3, 2022 by aent

[jrs2]

1 hour ago, aent said:

There is a lot of concern from FDOT and others that where I-4 Ultimate ends on the west side is going to lead to a huge traffic jam because you're having 5 lanes of traffic, plus the Sand Lake and Universal dumping traffic onto the existing westbound I-4 that is only 3 lanes after the express lanes end. There is recognition its probably gonna be a while before the previous I-4 expansion plans can be implemented, so to stop having a major problem there for a decade until the real I-4 Ultimate West gets built, they came up with a plan to try to alleviate that problem more quickly:

1) Extend I-4 Ultimate's current design with the concrete barrier separated dual express lanes down past Sand Lake Road so the Universal and Sand Lake Road traffic can merge between the express lanes have to, plus that bridge will need to be rebuilt to get another lane over Sand Lake Road so might as well do it all.

2) Add an additional lane to I-4 Westbound only that leads past Disney, and separate it with plastic poles, similar to I-95 in South Florida, but that has no exits or anything else but a single tolling point until there is funding to build the proper I-4 Ultimate project to that point. Its supposed to be "easy" to do this as there is enough room to add a lane without reconstructing any bridges.

Construction is supposed to be able to start on this this summer, probably around July on the Sand Lake Rd portion, which is expected to take the longest, and the entire project be compeleted by 2026.

It will get upgraded again to an ultimate form later, allowing more collaboration with Brightline when they need to reconstruct any bridges anyways during their expansion to Tampa, and when more funding is available (hopefully from the I-4 express lanes)

in their video, they showed the one lane WB but two lanes EB.  when they say past Disney, do we know if they are planning any EB relief up to US 27 or close to it?

[aent]

2 hours ago, jrs2 said:

in their video, they showed the one lane WB but two lanes EB.  when they say past Disney, do we know if they are planning any EB relief up to US 27 or close to it?

There is no EB express lanes in this interim project (other then a 1 or 2 mile extension to Sand Lake Rd as part of that interchange reconstruction)

Champions Gate interchange is the limit for the project (and I believe the express lanes will end with time for you to get off at Champions Gate), so US27 is beyond the limits until the final Ultimate project gets done

Edited March 3, 2022 by aent

[jrs2]

54 minutes ago, aent said:

There is no EB express lanes in this interim project (other then a 1 or 2 mile extension to Sand Lake Rd as part of that interchange reconstruction)

Champions Gate interchange is the limit for the project (and I believe the express lanes will end with time for you to get off at Champions Gate), so US27 is beyond the limits until the final Ultimate project gets done

so, for the interim project, they are extending the express lanes (2 EB/2 WB) past SLR?

And, for the interim project, what exactly will extend to the Championsgate Interchange redo? i.e., lanes, etc.

[aent]

4 hours ago, jrs2 said:

so, for the interim project, they are extending the express lanes (2 EB/2 WB) past SLR?

And, for the interim project, what exactly will extend to the Championsgate Interchange redo? i.e., lanes, etc.

Yes, thats correct, same format as existing until after the SLR interchange, which is getting completely redone, and then it will look like this:

The aux lane appears and disappears between bridges/interchanges to avoid having to redo any of the bridges

[AmIReal]

1 hour ago, aent said:

Yes, thats correct, same format as existing until after the SLR interchange, which is getting completely redone, and then it will look like this:

The aux lane appears and disappears between bridges/interchanges to avoid having to redo any of the bridges

Thanks for all the info.

[jrs2]

15 hours ago, aent said:

Yes, thats correct, same format as existing until after the SLR interchange, which is getting completely redone, and then it will look like this:

The aux lane appears and disappears between bridges/interchanges to avoid having to redo any of the bridges

and then on this interim project, the WB single express lane will continue until just after the 536 Interchange (per the news story), or will it go farther?

[codypet]

On 3/3/2022 at 2:39 PM, aent said:

There is no EB express lanes in this interim project (other then a 1 or 2 mile extension to Sand Lake Rd as part of that interchange reconstruction)

Champions Gate interchange is the limit for the project (and I believe the express lanes will end with time for you to get off at Champions Gate), so US27 is beyond the limits until the final Ultimate project gets done

US 27 (Segment 5) is the end of the BTU lanes., not championsgate.  We had a lot of D1 coordination for that.  Championsgate will be a DDI.  The "tube" the single lane extension is going to World Dr.

[jrs2]

16 hours ago, codypet said:

US 27 (Segment 5) is the end of the BTU lanes., not championsgate.  We had a lot of D1 coordination for that.  Championsgate will be a DDI.  The "tube" the single lane extension is going to World Dr.

thanks.  there are so many interchanges from 535 west, i.e., 535, 536, Osceola Pkwy, US 192, SR 417, World Drive, SR 429, then Championsgate, that it would be huge if they could have express lanes bypassing all of that craziness out to US 27 much sooner than later.

[EngineerNole]

On 2/28/2022 at 11:11 AM, jrs2 said:

ok.  I took the Longwood to Lee Road express lanes heading WB Saturday night.  The Altamonte Springs sign was lit; the Maitland sign wasn't.   Worked nicely and well lit.

Then I took the I-4 WB from after OBT to the "Kirkman" exit.  Well, it ain't Kirkman Rd; it's Grand National- and I almost missed it.  I get that Kirkman has the name recognition, but the sign should say "Grand National to Major to Kirkman" or something like that b/c I almost overshot it looking for Grand National.  It comes up right after the TNPK exit, which looks rather nice BTW.

Tonight I am going to try the Anderson Street or South Street to I-4 EB and see how those work.  Heading WB, the exit states "South Street."

I guess we should be used to it already; the I-4 EB exit for downtown states "South Street" when in essence the ramp turns into Garland but the first light you hit is South Street.

Do you have a picture of the sign issue to Kirkman?  I’m trying to understand your concern.  You were looking for Grand National or Kirkman Rd?

On 3/2/2022 at 4:17 PM, AmIReal said:

What is "the tube"...? 1st I've heard it mentioned.

From wftv- "Another toll lane is coming to the Disney stretch. “That is going to transition from I-4 Ultimate limits down to a single lane only on the westbound side and help give some travel options for folks in the area,” a spokesperson said. Transportation leaders have dubbed it “the tube.” It will run from the Kirkman Road express lane through State Road 536 or Epcot Center Drive."

https://www.wftv.com/news/local/i-4-ultimate-whats-next-project/6IFNGD4ZAJCFJNNI52OGF6TJ74/

The “tube” will be a widening only (not a rebuild) of the I-4 westbound lanes from Central Fl Pkwy to SR 536.  It will be a single express lane with tubular delineators and will have no ingress or egress (thus a separated tube) through this corridor.  The tube is an interim improvement to continue an express lane past Sand Lake until the permanent I-4 BTU is fully built.

Edited March 15, 2022 by EngineerNole

[EngineerNole]

On 3/4/2022 at 11:36 AM, jrs2 said:

and then on this interim project, the WB single express lane will continue until just after the 536 Interchange (per the news story), or will it go farther?

Not for now.

[codypet]

13 hours ago, EngineerNole said:

Do you have a picture of the sign issue to Kirkman?  I’m trying to understand your concern.  You were looking for Grand National or Kirkman Rd?

I know it doesn't say Grand National on it.  I'm pretty sure it says SR 435/Kirkman Road.  This pic is the opposite direction and I believe it says the same thing going WB.

[jrs2]

15 hours ago, EngineerNole said:

Do you have a picture of the sign issue to Kirkman?  I’m trying to understand your concern.  You were looking for Grand National or Kirkman Rd?

I was looking for Grand National.  I am very familiar with the road network in that area.  When I passed the TNPK ramps, the next sign said "Kirkman" and it threw me off because the next sign after said "Sand Lake Road."  So my mind immediately said "where is Grand National?" and "when did they make an express lanes exit for Kirkman Rd without me knowing about it?"  But then, I looked to my left and saw the outlet mall and realized that the "Kirkman" exit was really Grand National.

That sign is straight up wrong for many reasons.  The first reason is that Kirkman Rd is two road connections away with Major Blvd in between.  It's one thing, for example, to have the "South Street" exit on I-4 where the first light you hit is South Street but yet you are now effectively on Garland.  On that intersection, it would be the equivalent of renaming the South Street exit "Church Street" instead, and the driver is now going to the second light to encounter Church Street. Or, rename it Orange Ave, which would make the driver have to turn right and then right again, like you do at the "Kirkman" exit of the express lanes now.

See the difference?

And with Grand National, technically that bridge is an extension of a road that "dies" at the corner with Oakridge Rd.  But that bridge could have easily been named Oakridge Rd, which has more meaning since the outlet mall borders it.

What they probably should've done is named Grand National ala the Fulton County, GA road "Glenridge Connector."  That pretty much spells out the functionality of that road via it's name.  "Grand National" the name only has meaning to locals.  Tourists will have no clue where they are.  Exit the express lanes, make a right at the light, then take it to the end at Major, make a left at the light, then take it to the light, now you are at Kirkman Rd., go straight you are inside Universal, go left or right, you are on Kirkman Rd.  For first timers it's a maze; for locals it's perfectly fine.

Rename it the "Kirkman Road Connector."  Now the expectation is that "we are not on Kirkman Road yet, so follow the signs."  They should rename the bridge anyway because the whole purpose of that bridge was to connect the north end of I-Drive to Kirkman Road and Universal easily, or, it was for this I-4 expansion project specifically.  Either way, it is nothing more than a connector.  For regular I-4 traffic, Kirkman Road has an exit, but it doesn't have an exit for the express lanes of I-4.  So, to fix this and the fact that the Grand National bridge may be misnamed anyway, they should change the name of the bridge.

So, the more I think about it, the bridge should be renamed the "Kirkman Road Connector" and so should the exit.

[codypet]

@jrs2 I agree with out and it should be called out like this:

Grand National Dr. 

To SR 435 Kirkman Road

International Dr 

[jrs2]

22 hours ago, codypet said:

@jrs2 I agree with out and it should be called out like this:

Grand National Dr. 

To SR 435 Kirkman Road

International Dr 

oooh, I forgot about that one.

[codypet]

The same exit from the Turnpike side.  I understand Jetport Dr. but Orange Ave?  I could have seen Boggy Creek Road, but you'd have to backtrack to hit Orange Ave.  Seems odd.