I4 - Beyond the Ultimate [Pre-construction]

[Alleri459]

3 hours ago, jrs2 said:

yeah, that last photo is part of the interchange of SR 417/I-4, the Wekiva Pkwy in Sanford/Lake Mary...steadily progressing...

Did they already start the Daryl Carter conversion to a full interchange?

I saw the reconstruction of 532/Championsgate underway, but I didn't realize that was part of the BTU; I thought it was an independent project.

I belieive the Championsgate interchange was accelerated due to the pervasive traffic issues the last few years. The divergent diamond is almost completed on Osceola Polk Line Road, plus the merge lanes on I-4 to prevent the back up directly onto the highway. 

[jrs2]

20 hours ago, aleonrivera said:

I belieive the Championsgate interchange was accelerated due to the pervasive traffic issues the last few years. The divergent diamond is almost completed on Osceola Polk Line Road, plus the merge lanes on I-4 to prevent the back up directly onto the highway. 

I was in Bonnet Creek yesterday (not the creek itself...the hotels, lol) and I drove past Daryl Carter and there is construction equipment on property that is on the N/E corner adjacent to Target...

if there was ever a need for an express lane(s) it would be past US 27.   I think the 429 interchange dumps traffic onto I-4 and slows things down WB, kind of like CFL PKWY does WB near Sea World.  

[jgardnerucf]

On 1/25/2023 at 2:42 PM, jrs2 said:

Daryl Carter conversion

Yep. All zee trees are gone. The DD layout and ramps started.

[jrs2]

46 minutes ago, jgardnerucf said:

Yep. All zee trees are gone. The DD layout and ramps started.

very exciting.  it is tough to get to Portillos heading WB on the I-4 parking lot.  I typically take the Universal Blvd, head south, cut behind the OCCC at Rosen Plaza, take the bridge to CLFA Pkwy, and head west to Palm Pkwy.  I will do this any day of the week over getting off at 535. 

We could use yet another bridge or underpass between I-Drive and Turkey Lake/Palm Pkwy.  Daryl Carter was a huge plus.  But I would like to see something around where the OCCC West Bldg is to get you across I-4 and avoid SLR.

[shardoon]

55 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

very exciting.  it is tough to get to Portillos heading WB on the I-4 parking lot.  I typically take the Universal Blvd, head south, cut behind the OCCC at Rosen Plaza, take the bridge to CLFA Pkwy, and head west to Palm Pkwy.  I will do this any day of the week over getting off at 535. 

We could use yet another bridge or underpass between I-Drive and Turkey Lake/Palm Pkwy.  Daryl Carter was a huge plus.  But I would like to see something around where the OCCC West Bldg is to get you across I-4 and avoid SLR.

I agree, but not enough land to get a smooth transition to a bridge. So if one was to do it, you are talking about a very urban style ramp north south on turkey lake road with retaining walls etc leading to a traffic light for the bridge. Gonna go out on a ledge and say a bridge like that would cost double, but I'm no civil and traffic engineer. 

[jrs2]

On 1/26/2023 at 4:54 PM, jgardnerucf said:

Yep. All zee trees are gone. The DD layout and ramps started.

I love the drive down Palm Pkwy...but once that exit opens, getting to that mall will be so much easier and faster...

[codypet]

2 hours ago, jrs2 said:

I love the drive down Palm Pkwy...but once that exit opens, getting to that mall will be so much easier and faster...

I thought it would make the trip to my parents house easier, but I-4 comes to a screetching halt at SR 528.  So I don't think it will.  I also think you'll find the people who live off of SR 535 west of Apopka Vineland will use that exit.  Bridge piers I think were going up when I last went by.  I think that's for the future Sea World exit.

Edited January 30, 2023 by codypet

[aent]

DeSantis announced they're accelerating construction of 20 road projects throughout the state of Florida as a result of the surplus we had under his leadership. Included on the list is accelerating the final I4 Ultimate south alignment forward by approximately 10 years... I4 Ultimate, with the 2 express lanes in each direction will start construction next year between Osceola Parkway  and Champions Gate, and continuing south to US27 in 2027, at a cost of $2 billion. My understanding is this also eases the ability to construct Brightline in the median as well to Tampa.

The one weird thing is it is leaving out segment 2, which means there will be a gap in the ultimate express lanes in that 4 mile section once completed... well, kind of, they previously approved an interim project in the westbound direction to add 1 express lane, and to add both express lanes as part of the Sand Lake Road interchange starting construction now. Hopefully they can accelerate that last 4 miles as well 

[codypet]

12 hours ago, aent said:

DeSantis announced they're accelerating construction of 20 road projects throughout the state of Florida as a result of the surplus we had under his leadership. Included on the list is accelerating the final I4 Ultimate south alignment forward by approximately 10 years... I4 Ultimate, with the 2 express lanes in each direction will start construction next year between Osceola Parkway  and Champions Gate, and continuing south to US27 in 2027, at a cost of $2 billion. My understanding is this also eases the ability to construct Brightline in the median as well to Tampa.

The one weird thing is it is leaving out segment 2, which means there will be a gap in the ultimate express lanes in that 4 mile section once completed... well, kind of, they previously approved an interim project in the westbound direction to add 1 express lane, and to add both express lanes as part of the Sand Lake Road interchange starting construction now. Hopefully they can accelerate that last 4 miles as well 

What in the heck?  We put a bid on the US27 project (the only part of I4 BTU in D1)and while the Ultimate interchange was scoped to get built, only AUX lanes were going in between Championsgate, not the Express Lanes.  Last I heard the single tube delineator express lane ended at World Dr.  Unless the scopes changed very recently, I don't get how that would make sense but I certainly believe its possible that they'd do something like that.  It would make MOT a nightmare though.

Edited January 31, 2023 by codypet

[JFW657]

13 hours ago, aent said:

DeSantis announced they're accelerating construction of 20 road projects throughout the state of Florida as a result of the surplus we had under his leadership. Included on the list is accelerating the final I4 Ultimate south alignment forward by approximately 10 years... I4 Ultimate, with the 2 express lanes in each direction will start construction next year between Osceola Parkway  and Champions Gate, and continuing south to US27 in 2027, at a cost of $2 billion. My understanding is this also eases the ability to construct Brightline in the median as well to Tampa.

The one weird thing is it is leaving out segment 2, which means there will be a gap in the ultimate express lanes in that 4 mile section once completed... well, kind of, they previously approved an interim project in the westbound direction to add 1 express lane, and to add both express lanes as part of the Sand Lake Road interchange starting construction now. Hopefully they can accelerate that last 4 miles as well 

Hmmmmmmmm......  

Quote

DeSantis described his four-year “Moving Florida Forward” proposal, which would use borrowed money and draw funding from reserves, as “things we’re going to have to do anyways.”

“These are all projects in the pipeline,” DeSantis said during an appearance at the SUNTRAX Test Facility Toll Operations in Auburndale. “They’ve been approved by local communities. They’re really ready to get going. We just need to put the funds in place.”

Under DeSantis’ proposal, $4 billion would come from a general-revenue surplus, which has built up as the state has seen higher-than-expected tax collections and as it received federal stimulus money. The remaining $3 billion would be raised through “innovative financing,” according to Department of Transportation Secretary Jared Perdue.

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/transportation/os-ne-desantis-speed-up-road-projects-20230130-4ecrtw5rojgk5cnvkymmfwtpba-story.html

 

[codypet]

All about how you spin it.

Anytime I hear "creative accounting" or "innovative financing"  I get worried. 

At least the federal stimulus money is stimulating the economy.  

Edit:  More info.

It appears the single express lane WB will act as an express lane bridge from I4 Ultimate to this new section all the way to US 27.  Basically omitting the section through Disney world in the interim.

5326-SR-535-Interchange-Improvements-Handout-20230112.pdf (i4beyond.com)

Edited January 31, 2023 by codypet

[jrs2]

On 1/30/2023 at 2:25 PM, codypet said:

I thought it would make the trip to my parents house easier, but I-4 comes to a screetching halt at SR 528.  So I don't think it will.  I also think you'll find the people who live off of SR 535 west of Apopka Vineland will use that exit.  Bridge piers I think were going up when I last went by.  I think that's for the future Sea World exit.

I think the CFLA Pkwy ramp coupled with 528 dumps too many cars too quickly in roughly the same spot.  And Fla drivers are drive challenged and can't figure it out...it could be that other drivers are frantically trying to get to 535 exit as why...dunno.

On 1/30/2023 at 8:53 PM, aent said:

DeSantis announced they're accelerating construction of 20 road projects throughout the state of Florida as a result of the surplus we had under his leadership. Included on the list is accelerating the final I4 Ultimate south alignment forward by approximately 10 years... I4 Ultimate, with the 2 express lanes in each direction will start construction next year between Osceola Parkway  and Champions Gate, and continuing south to US27 in 2027, at a cost of $2 billion. My understanding is this also eases the ability to construct Brightline in the median as well to Tampa.

The one weird thing is it is leaving out segment 2, which means there will be a gap in the ultimate express lanes in that 4 mile section once completed... well, kind of, they previously approved an interim project in the westbound direction to add 1 express lane, and to add both express lanes as part of the Sand Lake Road interchange starting construction now. Hopefully they can accelerate that last 4 miles as well 

maybe they are delaying Segment two b/c of a redesign to Daryl Carter and the new 535 interchange, and possibly a redesign of 536?  Is there anything being tossed around about CFLA Pkwy and making it a complete interchange (so close to 528)?  Maybe they foresee changed along Segment 2 that need to be worked out before committing $$$ to it.

On 1/31/2023 at 12:20 PM, codypet said:

All about how you spin it.

Anytime I hear "creative accounting" or "innovative financing"  I get worried. 

At least the federal stimulus money is stimulating the economy.  

Edit:  More info.

It appears the single express lane WB will act as an express lane bridge from I4 Ultimate to this new section all the way to US 27.  Basically omitting the section through Disney world in the interim.

5326-SR-535-Interchange-Improvements-Handout-20230112.pdf (i4beyond.com)

maybe Disney paid them off and was like...oh hell no are you going to have express lanes express laning people PAST Disney as opposed to dumping them there...

[AndyPok1]

I'm guessing segment 2 is being delayed because that's the difficult portion that is double decked?

[shardoon]

Anybody have access to the new plans? Hard the visualize the changes....

https://wdwnt.com/2023/03/fdot-cancels-plans-for-interstate-ramp-into-disney-springs/

[HankStrong]

16 hours ago, shardoon said:

Anybody have access to the new plans? Hard the visualize the changes....

https://wdwnt.com/2023/03/fdot-cancels-plans-for-interstate-ramp-into-disney-springs/

https://i4beyond.com/project-designs/segment-designs/segment-1b/#design-documents

[codypet]

17 hours ago, shardoon said:

Anybody have access to the new plans? Hard the visualize the changes....

https://wdwnt.com/2023/03/fdot-cancels-plans-for-interstate-ramp-into-disney-springs/

My brother sent me this and I find the story kind of clickbait.  It framed the story as DeSantis retaliating against Disney, but realistically the original design was not pedestrian friendly, and the public meeting a month ago had shown the revised design so it wasn't new news.

[prahaboheme]

The article is a little confusing — does this mean that they will no longer require the land where Crossroads once stood? 

[codypet]

@prahaboheme  It looks like this now.  Needed the land for a loop ramp, but I know its better to do a full taking instead of piecemeal.  The original design isn't particularly ped friendly and it would have had a lot of work up APV over by Walgreen's.

https://i4beyond.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/5326-SR-535-Interchange-Improvements-Handout-20230206.pdf

[shardoon]

This is horrible. Sure, this may or may not resolve the I 4 westbound traffic.......I'm skeptical on that....... but this screws the people driving southbound Apopka Vineland. There always is so much backed up traffic, sometimes all the way to the Rosen JCC. Those traffic lights are killers and this only adds more traffic to those traffic lights. I was really hoping for the flyovers to take away traffic light traffic. 

[codypet]

10 hours ago, shardoon said:

This is horrible. Sure, this may or may not resolve the I 4 westbound traffic.......I'm skeptical on that....... but this screws the people driving southbound Apopka Vineland. There always is so much backed up traffic, sometimes all the way to the Rosen JCC. Those traffic lights are killers and this only adds more traffic to those traffic lights. I was really hoping for the flyovers to take away traffic light traffic. 

Daryl Carter won't help?

[shardoon]

4 hours ago, codypet said:

Daryl Carter won't help?

No because they are going cheap even there. Instead of a full interchange with I4, they are leaving a westbound entrance out. Therefore, in order to get to I4 west, you have to go through the LBV misery. 

[HankStrong]

1 hour ago, shardoon said:

No because they are going cheap even there. Instead of a full interchange with I4, they are leaving a westbound entrance out. Therefore, in order to get to I4 west, you have to go through the LBV misery. 

Amen to this.  DC exit harkens back to the misery of interstate exits years ago.  

[jrs2]

4 hours ago, shardoon said:

No because they are going cheap even there. Instead of a full interchange with I4, they are leaving a westbound entrance out. Therefore, in order to get to I4 west, you have to go through the LBV misery. 

that is a catastrophe...making drivers still reliant on 535 is a complete failure.  they should have planned it perhaps like Central Pkwy with exit ramps down the center for toll users only...

[jrs2]

8 hours ago, codypet said:

Daryl Carter won't help?

I will avoid 535 like the plague from now on.

the redo of the ramp is just the addition of one cloverleaf ramp.  all that for just one ramp?  it just seems like much ado...

I can't believe Darryl Carter is not going to be a full interchange.

[aent]

4 hours ago, jrs2 said:

I will avoid 535 like the plague from now on.

the redo of the ramp is just the addition of one cloverleaf ramp.  all that for just one ramp?  it just seems like much ado...

I can't believe Darryl Carter is not going to be a full interchange.

Supposedly in a future phase it will be a full interchange. With the rest of the south side of Beyond the Ultimate being funded now, it seems insane for them to go this "interim" route, where the next section of I4 Beyond the Ultimate is just going to compound how bad the problems already are. I don't know if the interim improvement schedule is too far along already, but I wish someone in FDOT would realize this makes little sense to not try to cancel the "interim" project and get the Beyond project completed on the entire south end, even if it takes a couple extra years. The interim project and "the tunnel" isn't going to complete much earlier then the rest of Beyond the Ultimate, and northbound will just have a relatively small gap where the express lanes just disappear for no good reason.

Edited March 15, 2023 by aent