I4 - Beyond the Ultimate [Pre-construction]

[HankStrong]

On ‎6‎/‎5‎/‎2019 at 11:31 AM, smileguy said:

Any way to merge the threads? Even the FDOT website now is calling it "Ultimate and Beyond."

This

[IAmFloridaBorn]

The downtown interchange.

Posting here incase threads merge. 

[jrs2]

40 minutes ago, IAmFloridaBorn said:

The downtown interchange.

Posting here incase threads merge. 

in both photos, namely the second one, that construction going on (it looks like three concrete stairwells 5+ stories tall--- does anyone know what that is?  It is adjacent to the tracks and looks to be a block or half a block south of Gore on the east side of the tracks.  I passed by it two weeks ago.

[AmIReal]

59 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

that construction going on (it looks like three concrete stairwells 5+ stories tall--- does anyone know what that is

Storage units. They've been mentioned in the SoDo thread a few times.

[spenser1058]

 

[codypet]

It will always be Fenton Road to me!!!!  Where is my proposed connection to Apopka Vineland Road you promised us in 1999?!?!  Grumble Grumble Grumble.

[jrs2]

15 minutes ago, codypet said:

It will always be Fenton Road to me!!!!  Where is my proposed connection to Apopka Vineland Road you promised us in 1999?!?!  Grumble Grumble Grumble.

I would venture to say that the new interchange at Fenton would probably mirror the grand National interchange, in that you enter and exit in the center of I-4.   My guess. As for SLR, good luck to FDOT with that clusterf$#@&

[EngineerNole]

On 6/12/2019 at 3:32 PM, sethM said:

Simply adding lanes also creates a lot more traffic as everyone wants to use the left lane until they’re half a mile from their exit and then have to cross over 6 lanes, and those just getting on want to cross those 6 lanes into the fast lane. It ends up making everything just as inefficient. 

The way they’re doing it is the right way. 

Projects are starting for the widening of I-4 from the northern end of I-4 Ultimate (EE Williamson Bridge) to Lake Mary Blvd.  These are interim projects.  I-4 Beyond the Ultimate could be a few years.

The Wekiva Parkway project that ties into I-4 will build the I-4 beyond the Ultimate general use lanes (free/non tolled lanes) between SR 46A and SR 46.  It is already starting in a sense, but will take some years for the final build out on each side of the current  I-4 Ultimate project.

Edited June 29, 2019 by EngineerNole

[dcluley98]

Thank you @engineerNole! 

 

Suprisingly, Orlando has never had a true "beltway" loop around the central area. I don't know how that has happened, and don't know if it is a good thing that we are now creating a loop. 

I have driven upon the 429 and liked the experience a whole lot compared to I-4. 

I think all the time when I am on it, however, that it is superflouous and maybe I should be on a train instead. 

#MoarTrains!

 

also. . . 

 

GO GATORS! 

Edited June 30, 2019 by dcluley98

[codypet]

 

Well this is an interesting rendering of the Sand Lake DDI.  You can manipulate the video and spin around like on Google Earth too.

Edited July 1, 2019 by codypet

[sethM]

The traffic pattern enthusiast in me is quite excited about these diverging diamonds becoming more prevalent. I just drove on the one in Viera the other week which was pretty neat. 

[EngineerNole]

On 6/29/2019 at 11:30 PM, dcluley98 said:

Thank you @engineerNole! 

 

Suprisingly, Orlando has never had a true "beltway" loop around the central area. I don't know how that has happened, and don't know if it is a good thing that we are now creating a loop. 

I have driven upon the 429 and liked the experience a whole lot compared to I-4. 

I think all the time when I am on it, however, that it is superflouous and maybe I should be on a train instead. 

#MoarTrains!

 

also. . . 

 

GO GATORS! 

Virgin Trains is coming.  Already starting on Miami to Orlando.  Orlando to Tampa is very likely imo.  Outside of that and Sunrail, don’t expect a subway type system, it will never happen.  Automated cars is the future of local travel.

[dcluley98]

You will have seen us speaking many times on here that the VTL, or "Lexus Lanes" separated from regular traffic are actually future-proofing for automated vehical travel. They are creating closed circuit throughways for the eventual adoption if it should so happen. It is brilliant, and may be even more transformative than High Speed Trains if that is the way technology goes. 

[codypet]

Yea that appears how this is going to go.  Its very easy to start with HOV lanes then go to barrier separated HOT lanes.  There's been a lot of talk about eventually making them Autonomous only lanes.  I could see them as being very useful if we get to that point.  In that scenario if the conditions are right, you could have tightly spaced together vehicles going at 75, 80 mph.  I wouldn't assume FDOT would let the autonomous vehicles go any faster than that due to environmental conditions and the variable condition of the vehicles.

[EngineerNole]

On 7/6/2019 at 5:28 PM, dcluley98 said:

You will have seen us speaking many times on here that the VTL, or "Lexus Lanes" separated from regular traffic are actually future-proofing for automated vehical travel. They are creating closed circuit throughways for the eventual adoption if it should so happen. It is brilliant, and may be even more transformative than High Speed Trains if that is the way technology goes. 

I don’t think this is intentional.  The problem is that the express lanes are needed to improve traffic flow.  If they switch their use for automated vehicles only, you would have to replace the same volume of traffic with automated vehicles to prevent the entire system from failing.

A traffic guy I know explained to me that it will be a huge challenge integrating automated vehicles with manually driven cars.  The system would work great if all cars were autonomous, and one day we might get there, but the transition will likely lead to more traffic jams.

Edited August 17, 2019 by EngineerNole

[dcluley98]

The person I heard this from is an ITS (Intelligent Traffic Systems) Engineer for AECOM who actually worked on VTL and traffic monitoring camera systems for FDOT projects on the interstate and turnpike systems throughout the state.  He said the idea works for both current system of variable tolling which has been proven by many studies to meaningfully increase throughput, as well as if they need to eventually create closed system for autonomous vehicles. Obviously, the primary function is the immediate and current increase in efficiency, but they also design them with the added benefit to perhaps use them in the future as separated closed systems. He also said that any initial autonomous closed system would likely be government run like a more versatile BRT or POD type mass transit system, and not individuals with their own autonomous vehicles that they take home every day. 

In his opinion, there is to much variable liability in everybody having and maintaining their own autonomous vehicle, as well as obvious problem you mentioned with mixing autonomous and non-autonomous in the same general population, so he believes that the only way it will be approved is if it is publicly funded mass transit type of program with closed system to begin with. Then maybe 50-100 years from now the technology will be adopted and advanced enough that we can get rid of all the "regular" vehicles altogether and program individual cars with routes via software navigation and let the robots drive. He said that probably would not happen in our lifetimes, however, because of the liability, unless there is some groundbreaking new insurance structure and tort reform that can fix those issues. The problem, in his opinion, is not with the technology itself, but with the humans, and with the liability/risk involved. (leave it to the lawyers and insurance companies to potentially screw up everything)

Edited August 17, 2019 by dcluley98

[spenser1058]

48 minutes ago, dcluley98 said:

The person I heard this from is an ITS (Intelligent Traffic Systems) Engineer for AECOM who actually worked on VTL and traffic monitoring camera systems for FDOT projects on the interstate and turnpike systems throughout the state.  He said the idea works for both current system of variable tolling which has been proven by many studies to meaningfully increase throughput, as well as if they need to eventually create closed system for autonomous vehicles. Obviously, the primary function is the immediate and current increase in efficiency, but they also design them with the added benefit to perhaps use them in the future as separated closed systems. He also said that any initial autonomous closed system would likely be government run like a more versatile BRT or POD type mass transit system, and not individuals with their own autonomous vehicles that they take home every day. 

In his opinion, there is to much variable liability in everybody having and maintaining their own autonomous vehicle, as well as obvious problem you mentioned with mixing autonomous and non-autonomous in the same general population, so he believes that the only way it will be approved is if it is publicly funded mass transit type of program with closed system to begin with. Then maybe 50-100 years from now the technology will be adopted and advanced enough that we can get rid of all the "regular" vehicles altogether and program individual cars with routes via software navigation and let the robots drive. He said that probably would not happen in our lifetimes, however, because of the liability, unless there is some groundbreaking new insurance structure and tort reform that can fix those issues. The problem, in his opinion, is not with the technology itself, but with the humans, and with the liability/risk involved. (leave it to the lawyers and insurance companies to potentially screw up everything)

Oh my! I no longer hold the record for longest UP post *sigh*

dcluley takes the crown -Charge On!

[dcluley98]

That's what she said. 

[EngineerNole]

On 8/16/2019 at 8:23 PM, dcluley98 said:

The person I heard this from is an ITS (Intelligent Traffic Systems) Engineer for AECOM who actually worked on VTL and traffic monitoring camera systems for FDOT projects on the interstate and turnpike systems throughout the state.  He said the idea works for both current system of variable tolling which has been proven by many studies to meaningfully increase throughput, as well as if they need to eventually create closed system for autonomous vehicles. Obviously, the primary function is the immediate and current increase in efficiency, but they also design them with the added benefit to perhaps use them in the future as separated closed systems. He also said that any initial autonomous closed system would likely be government run like a more versatile BRT or POD type mass transit system, and not individuals with their own autonomous vehicles that they take home every day. 

In his opinion, there is to much variable liability in everybody having and maintaining their own autonomous vehicle, as well as obvious problem you mentioned with mixing autonomous and non-autonomous in the same general population, so he believes that the only way it will be approved is if it is publicly funded mass transit type of program with closed system to begin with. Then maybe 50-100 years from now the technology will be adopted and advanced enough that we can get rid of all the "regular" vehicles altogether and program individual cars with routes via software navigation and let the robots drive. He said that probably would not happen in our lifetimes, however, because of the liability, unless there is some groundbreaking new insurance structure and tort reform that can fix those issues. The problem, in his opinion, is not with the technology itself, but with the humans, and with the liability/risk involved. (leave it to the lawyers and insurance companies to potentially screw up everything)

Interesting. I haven’t heard of this plan to use the express lanes for this purpose.  I agree you’d have to start with a closed system.

Edited August 25, 2019 by EngineerNole

[AmIReal]

I-4 toll lanes eliminated from Volusia County plans

The plan to extend 4 toll lanes from 434 in Seminole to 472 in Volusia has been killed by DOT. The lanes will now end at the 427 exchange, west of the Lake Monroe bridge.

“One of the real benefits, I know we’re now only adding only a single lane as opposed to two, but because it’s no longer an express lane, it will be a free lane,” Buck told the TPO. “I know it’s not an apples-to-apples ... it was two lanes before but it was two lanes that were not going to be used to capacity versus one lane we are expecting to use to full capacity.”

A few local politicians are not pleased...

https://www.news-journalonline.com/news/20190920/i-4-toll-lanes-eliminated-from-volusia-county-plans

 

[sunshine]

Here Are the Urban Highways That Deserve to Die

https://getpocket.com/explore/item/here-are-the-urban-highways-that-deserve-to-die?utm_source=pocket-newtab

 

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As cities around the globe are finding ways to remove highway, we build them bigger, wider and taller....

[HankStrong]

So agro!

[jrs2]

On 9/20/2019 at 9:31 AM, AmIReal said:

I-4 toll lanes eliminated from Volusia County plans

The plan to extend 4 toll lanes from 434 in Seminole to 472 in Volusia has been killed by DOT. The lanes will now end at the 427 exchange, west of the Lake Monroe bridge.

“One of the real benefits, I know we’re now only adding only a single lane as opposed to two, but because it’s no longer an express lane, it will be a free lane,” Buck told the TPO. “I know it’s not an apples-to-apples ... it was two lanes before but it was two lanes that were not going to be used to capacity versus one lane we are expecting to use to full capacity.”

A few local politicians are not pleased...

https://www.news-journalonline.com/news/20190920/i-4-toll-lanes-eliminated-from-volusia-county-plans

 

backwards-ass State...or is it Dist 5?

Well, it sounds like they'll widen the St. John's River Bridge with an extra lane in each direction- I hope- as opposed to starting the 4th lane on the VoCo side and east like a bunch of yahoos.

The toll lanes will stop just before the bridge in Seminole.

[HankStrong]

It's a shame you can't just turn I-4 due East and hit I-95 in Brevard County instead.  Right or wrong, those people are so dramatic about it all.

[spenser1058]

Volusia Drama! And to think it was once regarded as one of the state’s best governed counties.

Edited October 8, 2019 by spenser1058