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I4 - Beyond the Ultimate [Pre-construction]


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On 10/8/2019 at 11:36 AM, jrs2 said:

backwards-ass State...or is it Dist 5?

Well, it sounds like they'll widen the St. John's River Bridge with an extra lane in each direction- I hope- as opposed to starting the 4th lane on the VoCo side and east like a bunch of yahoos.

The toll lanes will stop just before the bridge in Seminole.

It’s money.  I would expect more delays due to the huge decrease in the gas tax from the pandemic.  The Volusia County section is questionably needed anyway.  Not that much traffic to necessarily justify toll lanes.  That’s just my opinion.  The lanes will definitely be widened, whether tolled or not.  The question is when.  As I’ve stated before, they’ve already started on the interim projects.  They will widen from EE Williamson to Lake Mary.  They are resurfacing from Lake Mary to the bridge.  On the south side, Daryl Carter and Sand Lake interchange with I-4 projects are coming.  Those will be Diverging Diamond Interchanges.  I would expect a lot of these in the future, as it is the new popular thing amongst engineers (same with roundabouts).

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Like any great tourist I will post a photo later of the Universal volcano

When I go on vacation I feel like so much time gets wasted. You've been here for like 1 day - how are you everywhere all at once? HOW??? lol  

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1 hour ago, EngineerNole said:

 Those will be Diverging Diamond Interchanges.  I would expect a lot of these in the future, as it is the new popular thing amongst engineers (same with roundabouts).

Are you telling me engineers in far flung places like Texas and Arizona are falling prey to a particular design edict based on their trial and error application in the field?

If so, it seems those diverging diamonds are basically the "visors" of Orlando building architecture and maybe this current design "ethos" (used loosely) is actually bedeviling other cities throughout the US.

So maybe certain design features are outside the reach of our Mayor and his lackey board and are actually driven by design and/ or customer.

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22 hours ago, AmIReal said:

Are you telling me engineers in far flung places like Texas and Arizona are falling prey to a particular design edict based on their trial and error application in the field?

If so, it seems those diverging diamonds are basically the "visors" of Orlando building architecture and maybe this current design "ethos" (used loosely) is actually bedeviling other cities throughout the US.

So maybe certain design features are outside the reach of our Mayor and his lackey board and are actually driven by design and/ or customer.

Supposedly they work really well, but part of me suspects it’s just the “cool new thing”.

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20 minutes ago, EngineerNole said:

Supposedly they work really well, but part of me suspects it’s just the “cool new thing”.

They do decrease points of conflict, which theoretically decreases the chance of a collision. The theory has mirrored application as well.

They also allow only two-phase signaling, which decreases the time your waiting at the intersection.

Ultimately, they work well when they are applied to interchanges that fit the design criteria. Roundabouts don't work at every intersection, and neither do diverging diamonds work at every interchange.

A good example is downtown at Colonial, urban environment, necessary capacity, and lack of additional ROW means that a diverging diamond is not appropriate, so a SPUI (Single Point Urban Interchange) is used instead. A good traffic engineer should be able to determine the best tool for each location based on the typical design criteria, but that unfortunately is based on numbers that can drastically change over the course of a few decades. That's why reconstruction of roadways occurs.

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15 minutes ago, codypet said:

The continuous flow intersection is the new big thing in intersection design now.  Expect to see more of those.

 

This is fine at large suburban intersections that are never going to be pedestrian friendly unless a bridge is built. However, they require a ton of additional ROW, which means they won't work in any kind of space constrained (urban) environment.

Edited by WAJAS
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12 hours ago, WAJAS said:

They do decrease points of conflict, which theoretically decreases the chance of a collision. The theory has mirrored application as well.

They also allow only two-phase signaling, which decreases the time your waiting at the intersection.

Ultimately, they work well when they are applied to interchanges that fit the design criteria. Roundabouts don't work at every intersection, and neither do diverging diamonds work at every interchange.

A good example is downtown at Colonial, urban environment, necessary capacity, and lack of additional ROW means that a diverging diamond is not appropriate, so a SPUI (Single Point Urban Interchange) is used instead. A good traffic engineer should be able to determine the best tool for each location based on the typical design criteria, but that unfortunately is based on numbers that can drastically change over the course of a few decades. That's why reconstruction of roadways occurs.

Doesn't DDI require about the least ROW along with the regular diamond interchange? Especially as less/no turning lanes are required for the highway. A SPUI needs much larger bridges and spacing to allow the 2 lefts to occur at the same time.

The biggest disadvantage to DDIs is they can't have both directions of the local road have a green at the same time. That means DDIs can only improve things if the turning traffic at the intersection is at least half of the traffic

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7 hours ago, aent said:

Doesn't DDI require about the least ROW along with the regular diamond interchange? Especially as less/no turning lanes are required for the highway. A SPUI needs much larger bridges and spacing to allow the 2 lefts to occur at the same time.

The biggest disadvantage to DDIs is they can't have both directions of the local road have a green at the same time. That means DDIs can only improve things if the turning traffic at the intersection is at least half of the traffic

DDI's require additional ROW to bulge out near the intersections. This positions the lanes at an angle, which is important for drivers to understand where they will be continuing for the green light. The applications in Florida also tend to include turn lanes, but many applications do not. I would expect the high traffic Colonial interchange would require the turn lanes to be kept. Your second point is very true, and honestly something I should have mentioned before.

The SPUI requires larger bridges, but that isn't what's typically referred to when speaking in additional ROW requirements. That being because those bridges are just changes to the current ROW of the highway, so no new land needs to be acquired and it does not impact business access.

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  • 3 weeks later...

For now express lanes are from just north of 434 Longwood to the Universal Volcano.  Expansion to the St Johns bridge is next with some prep work being done (probably won't officially get going until the 429/417/I4 interchange is completed.   That's what I think.

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24 minutes ago, cwetteland said:

For now express lanes are from just north of 434 Longwood to the Universal Volcano.  Expansion to the St Johns bridge is next with some prep work being done (probably won't officially get going until the 429/417/I4 interchange is completed.   That's what I think.

“to the Universal Volcano” - I like that.

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9 hours ago, nite owℓ said:

When I go on vacation I feel like so much time gets wasted.

You've been here for like 1 day - how are you everywhere all at once? HOW??? lol

spacer.pngspacer.png

 

He's my kind of vacationer! The secret is you don't sleep.

Great pics!

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  • 2 weeks later...

FDOT reaches eminent domain settlement with owners of The Crossroads- it’s said to be the priciest such settlement in Florida history (and it ain’t close).

Current tenants will need to close by August.


Crossroads center near Disney reaches historic $198 million eminent domain settlement with state
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/tourism/os-cfb-crossroads-disney-eminent-domain-20210121-qxa3m4s2zngy7nujdqlxvynype-story.html

From The Sentinel 
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38 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

FDOT reaches eminent domain settlement with owners of The Crossroads- it’s said to be the priciest such settlement in Florida history (and it ain’t close).

Current tenants will need to close by August.


Crossroads center near Disney reaches historic $198 million eminent domain settlement with state
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/tourism/os-cfb-crossroads-disney-eminent-domain-20210121-qxa3m4s2zngy7nujdqlxvynype-story.html

From The Sentinel 

This is very anecdotal, but I have not experienced that bad of traffic backups on I4 at 535 (heading west), especially not bad enough to justify a $200 million eminent domain purchase. The Champions Gate exit on the other hand? I would be okay with spending $12 billion to finally fix that nonsense. 

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2 minutes ago, KnightBay said:

This is very anecdotal, but I have not experienced that bad of traffic backups on I4 at 535 (heading west), especially not bad enough to justify a $200 million eminent domain purchase. The Champions Gate exit on the other hand? I would be okay with spending $12 billion to finally fix that nonsense. 

I’m not sure this is really necessary either considering they built the direct exit to Disney Springs’ garages.

Prior to then, I do remember considerable backups especially when Downtown Disney (Pleasure Island) was there.

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7 minutes ago, prahaboheme said:

I’m not sure this is really necessary either considering they built the direct exit to Disney Springs’ garages.

Prior to then, I do remember considerable backups especially when Downtown Disney (Pleasure Island) was there.

Completely agree.

I think what upsets me the most about this, is all of the lost jobs at the Crossroads at the cost of an extremely minimal traffic reduction benefit. Selfishly, the Crossroads was also a nice option for grabbing a quick and cheap meal nearby the parks without having to pay ridiculous mouse tax. 

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Yes on my recent trip to Orlando and Disney Springs I exited off I-4 and landed right into the parking garage of Disney Springs (always will be downtown Disney to me)  Thought it was very convenient and easy. 

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2 hours ago, prahaboheme said:

I’m not sure this is really necessary either considering they built the direct exit to Disney Springs’ garages.

Prior to then, I do remember considerable backups especially when Downtown Disney (Pleasure Island) was there.

Yea IMO the direct connect to Disney Springs did solve  a lot of the exit issues going north on 535.

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7 minutes ago, codypet said:

Yea IMO the direct connect to Disney Springs did solve  a lot of the exit issues going north on 535.

Isn’t it interesting that Gooding’s was probably the only grocery store that didn’t do well in the pandemic? Jim Gooding’s kids have been totally clueless when it comes to the business daddy left ‘em.

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6 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Isn’t it interesting that Gooding’s was probably the only grocery store that didn’t do well in the pandemic? Jim Gooding’s kids have been totally clueless when it comes to the business daddy left ‘em.

Goodings seems like it has been on a long slow decline for decades.

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