Society | 28- & 17-Story Residential [Under Construction]

[spenser1058]

I’m confused. I’m regularly told here that Buddy has no power over anything but now you’re saying if the City doesn’t want something, it ain’t happening . Pardon me while I recover from my case of whiplash.

[JFW657]

9 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

Here's an article leading up to a three-tower proposal race from 1996, Pizzuti being one of the three, and none of the three ever seeing the light of day (One Orlando Centre II being one and Fifth Third II (Eola Park Centre) being the other).

https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/stories/1996/08/19/story3.html

What did get built was Capital Plaza II, CNL, and Lincoln Tower by 1998-2000.   it looks like the trend for smaller floor plates and smaller projects was already beginning.

I just know that if The City wants something, it's likely getting done, and if they don't, it likely won't (see DPAC, Citrus Bowl, and Amway Center).  Look at how The City interfered with Skycoaster initially as a favor or whatever to Universal which did not want that project b/c of its future plans.  We pretty much flushed all that out on these boards 6-7 years ago. That being said I remember talk back in '97 whether from the media or from not-reported on sources that The City didn't want it b/c of the design.  And here's another thing, the whole thing about Tim Baker and BB being on the downtown design board; well, in the same way that BB got all of those projects in the 2000's pre-bust and post-bust, other major downtown players also easily garner the attention of the decision-makers to benefit themselves- those three projects above never got built yet Lincoln, Capital, and CNL, all rivals, end up taking their places more or less in the downtown office submarket for new construction at the end of the '90's.  

I get it that occasionally politics is played when it comes to development, but there is a limit and just because it may have occurred in some instances, doesn't mean that it occurred in every instance.

Plus, given the huge boon the Pizzuti Cube would have been to the city's tax base, it would have made very little sense from a financial point of view to hinder that project simply because "the city" didn't like the design.

Which brings me to ... who are we taking about re:"the city"?

How many members of the city gub'mint objected to it based on design and which offices did they hold?  

Did the entire DDB hate it? The entire City Council? Or just certain members, possibly comprising a majority?

We know the Mayor liked it, so that fact in itself would carried a lot of pro-cube weight in its favor. 

I always felt that as high rise building designs go, that one was fairly elegant and nowhere near as tacky or gimmicky as others I've seen in bigger cities than Orlando.

The open cube was clean and simple.  Would've looked amazing lit up at night from I-4. 

And what with my tastes leaning more toward the average Joe end of the spectrum, I tend to believe that most people probably liked it. 

Crying shame it never happened. 

[spenser1058]

Walt always talked about the “wienie” that would lead you from one land to the next at Disneyland.

I think The Cube, especially if they had pulled off one of the taller iterations, would have done that. It would have been a focal point of ESPN and other shots of the skyline.

As much as many folks (including on this board) like to make fun of the “Batman” tower in Nashville, it’s still that same sort of focal point for their downtown.

[dcluley98]

I am flattered that somone would attempt to describe a neighborood by my screen-name and notions, but I do not think that mid-town, nor uptown, nor "North Quarter" are things I would personally prescribe to or vibe to. 

I like the multi-use path and sculpture. 

 

Generally speaking, you don't want to go anywhere near the Lynx Central bus station at night. I think they turned the lights off on purpose to discourage others from venturing into there.   

[jack]

On 9/10/2022 at 4:10 PM, spenser1058 said:

As I’ve mentioned before, the building of a great city is more than some out of town developer dropping in and building a meh building or corporations making a transactional decision to locate here and then disappearing (hello, Burnham and that chip plant on JYP that pulled a “now you see it, now you don’t some years before that).

Yes, that’s part of it, but what takes us to the next level is the connective tissue and sinew those who truly believe in a city’s possibilities commit over the long term make it so.

Atlanta is the place I know best for that so let’s use it as an example. First, the hypercharged Atlanta we know today wasn’t that way if you go back to the ‘50’s.

At that time , Atlanta and Birmingham were neck and neck as possibilities of greatest city in the New South that was beginning to grow like kudzu after WWII. That followed a century after the Civil War when the entire region was mostly like we think of Mississippi today.

It all started with Coke, which became one of the first multinational companies because of a decision to make a bottle of Coke readily available to our soldiers in WWII wherever they might be.

So, generations of Coke execs including folks like the Candlers and later execs made the decision to stick with Atlanta based on things like moving past the racial issues tearing up the South - a world-class company had to welcome folks from all over the world.

There needed to be an airport with flights to just about anywhere Coke might be bottled. Delta, having relocated from LA to Atlanta bought in to that idea. Mayor Billy Hartsfield got to work (and that’s why you see that name when you fly into ATL).

Things got off to a great start. Sure, developers from all over came to get a piece of the pie but those like John Portman and Tom Cousins made Atlanta home base. They bought in to doing whatever was necessary to build a burgeoning metropolis.

That took the city to the next level. Bringing major league sports teams in (then a rarity in the South) and having top tier schools like Ga Tech and Emory were important pieces of the pie.

By the ‘70’s, Atlanta had become THE city of the New South (just as you would now, the idea they were neck and neck with Birmingham only 20 years earlier was considered a joke).

Nevertheless, Atlanta was still considered an up and coming regional city but by no means international.

Again, folks dedicated to the city made the leap possible. First, a president, Jimmy Carter, who along with his fellow Atlantan and UN Ambassador Andrew Young, made worldwide human rights a big deal. After they left DC, the Carter Center would ramp that up to fight scourges around the world like Guinea worm and by monitoring elections wherever democracy might be struggling.

Another local, who was a rich party boy based on his family’s wealth from a billboard company, had the audacity to start the first Cable News Network and (gasp!) locate it in Atlanta instead of NYC. Ted Turner’s CNN would go international and bring even more attention back home to Atlanta.

The growth continued and by the ‘90’s the unheard of idea of an Olympic Games in a place like the South came to be right there in Atlanta.

I could go on but the bottom line is that folks dedicated to a city made it happen through their efforts. It wasn’t just someone dropping in, building a tall building and leaving that made it so.

If we want to take Orlando to the next level, we have to develop the leaders who will have that same sort of dedication to the city and make it known there’s no place they’d rather call home. Without that, we’ll always be nothing more than a Lake Mary on steroids.

For whatever reason, Ron chose not to make that commitment to Orlando. Apparently he did to Columbus. That’s great for him but my attention is on those who want to do amazing things here and move us onward.

 

 

Ron is from Columbus and where he started his company. He did not go running back since he never left. He opened a branch office in Orlando and developed Heathrow. When he sold it, the brokerage and all of the employees went with it so the office was shut down. 

[spenser1058]

1 minute ago, jack said:

Ron is from Columbus and where he started his company. He did not go running back since he never left. He opened a branch office in Orlando and developed Heathrow. When he sold it, the brokerage and all of the employees went with it so the office was shut down. 

Which of course confirms my point. We need folks with ties to the city, not just those who take the money and run. Just being a cash cow for those whose interests lie elsewhere leaves us a soulless, transient way station.

For whatever reason, we seem to be getting worse about that now than previously. Maybe it doesn’t matter if our destiny is to be the junior partner of Orlampa.

[JFW657]

1 hour ago, spenser1058 said:

Which of course confirms my point. We need folks with ties to the city, not just those who take the money and run. Just being a cash cow for those whose interests lie elsewhere leaves us a soulless, transient way station.

For whatever reason, we seem to be getting worse about that now than previously. Maybe it doesn’t matter if our destiny is to be the junior partner of Orlampa.

The problem with your point is that you talk about "we" as if Orlando's residents are a monolithic entity which can be persuaded to move in a particular direction as one, in order to achieve a goal which you assume is agreed with and desired by everyone, and that if everyone within this monolithic entity would just see things your way, or the way this little groups sees them, then we'd get great, awesome world class buildings downtown.

But things don't work that way. You're oversimplifying reality. 

There is no magic button you can push or wand you can wave or incantation you can chant to make the city residents elect the leaders you want, and then "develop" them, whatever that means, who'll move construction in the direction you or anyone here at UPO thinks it should move. 

It's like a pot luck dinner.

You get to choose from whatever happens to get brought.  

[HankStrong]

Since I was brought into this for my days in Columbus, I'll just say that beyond THE Ohio State University's campus, the party areas immediately around the campus, and the German Village I do not have any love for Columbus whatsoever.  It's a dump and downtown is as boring as it comes.

 

I should add that Childhood Hank would like to add that COSI (Center Of Science & Industry) and the world's first Wendy's are amazing.

[prahaboheme]

10 hours ago, JFW657 said:

The problem with your point is that you talk about "we" as if Orlando's residents are a monolithic entity which can be persuaded to move in a particular direction as one, in order to achieve a goal which you assume is agreed with and desired by everyone, and that if everyone within this monolithic entity would just see things your way, or the way this little groups sees them, then we'd get great, awesome world class buildings downtown.

But things don't work that way. You're oversimplifying reality. 

There is no magic button you can push or wand you can wave or incantation you can chant to make the city residents elect the leaders you want, and then "develop" them, whatever that means, who'll move construction in the direction you or anyone here at UPO thinks it should move. 

It's like a pot luck dinner.

You get to choose from whatever happens to get brought.  

See Austin.

[jack]

4 hours ago, HankStrong said:

Since I was brought into this for my days in Columbus, I'll just say that beyond THE Ohio State University's campus, the party areas immediately around the campus, and the German Village I do not have any love for Columbus whatsoever.  It's a dump and downtown is as boring as it comes.

 

I should add that Childhood Hank would like to add that COSI (Center Of Science & Industry) and the world's first Wendy's are amazing.

I like the short north. And the market up there was cool. German and Italian Village was awesome. 

[JFW657]

54 minutes ago, prahaboheme said:

See Austin.

What about it? 

[jack]

13 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Which of course confirms my point. We need folks with ties to the city, not just those who take the money and run. Just being a cash cow for those whose interests lie elsewhere leaves us a soulless, transient way station.

For whatever reason, we seem to be getting worse about that now than previously. Maybe it doesn’t matter if our destiny is to be the junior partner of Orlampa.

We need more local wealth and real estate will follow. The wealth needs to be industries outside of real estate. Atlanta is a good example. 

[HankStrong]

2 hours ago, prahaboheme said:

See Austin.

 

[HankStrong]

2 hours ago, jack said:

I like the short north. And the market up there was cool. German and Italian Village was awesome. 

Short North & IV weren't huge hangouts for me, but as any good human is, I am a fan of the DooDah Parade.  I would definitely consider anything in the general region of High Street down to 1st & over to 4th the area around TOSU.

I mainly hung out up by The Newport because I was a pizza and music junkie.

[IAmFloridaBorn]

[spenser1058]

Woohoo! More pics from @IAmFloridaBorn are worth waiting two days for!

[codypet]

16 hours ago, IAmFloridaBorn said:

Giving me opening credits of the Sopranos Vibes

[jrs2]

18 hours ago, IAmFloridaBorn said:

that first shot is ultra bad @55

[RedStar25]

On 9/10/2022 at 4:10 PM, spenser1058 said:

As I’ve mentioned before, the building of a great city is more than some out of town developer dropping in and building a meh building or corporations making a transactional decision to locate here and then disappearing (hello, Burnham and that chip plant on JYP that pulled a “now you see it, now you don’t some years before that).

Yes, that’s part of it, but what takes us to the next level is the connective tissue and sinew those who truly believe in a city’s possibilities commit over the long term make it so.

Atlanta is the place I know best for that so let’s use it as an example. First, the hypercharged Atlanta we know today wasn’t that way if you go back to the ‘50’s.

At that time , Atlanta and Birmingham were neck and neck as possibilities of greatest city in the New South that was beginning to grow like kudzu after WWII. That followed a century after the Civil War when the entire region was mostly like we think of Mississippi today.

It all started with Coke, which became one of the first multinational companies because of a decision to make a bottle of Coke readily available to our soldiers in WWII wherever they might be.

So, generations of Coke execs including folks like the Candlers and later execs made the decision to stick with Atlanta based on things like moving past the racial issues tearing up the South - a world-class company had to welcome folks from all over the world.

There needed to be an airport with flights to just about anywhere Coke might be bottled. Delta, having relocated from LA to Atlanta bought in to that idea. Mayor Billy Hartsfield got to work (and that’s why you see that name when you fly into ATL).

Things got off to a great start. Sure, developers from all over came to get a piece of the pie but those like John Portman and Tom Cousins made Atlanta home base. They bought in to doing whatever was necessary to build a burgeoning metropolis.

That took the city to the next level. Bringing major league sports teams in (then a rarity in the South) and having top tier schools like Ga Tech and Emory were important pieces of the pie.

By the ‘70’s, Atlanta had become THE city of the New South (just as you would now, the idea they were neck and neck with Birmingham only 20 years earlier was considered a joke).

Nevertheless, Atlanta was still considered an up and coming regional city but by no means international.

Again, folks dedicated to the city made the leap possible. First, a president, Jimmy Carter, who along with his fellow Atlantan and UN Ambassador Andrew Young, made worldwide human rights a big deal. After they left DC, the Carter Center would ramp that up to fight scourges around the world like Guinea worm and by monitoring elections wherever democracy might be struggling.

Another local, who was a rich party boy based on his family’s wealth from a billboard company, had the audacity to start the first Cable News Network and (gasp!) locate it in Atlanta instead of NYC. Ted Turner’s CNN would go international and bring even more attention back home to Atlanta.

The growth continued and by the ‘90’s the unheard of idea of an Olympic Games in a place like the South came to be right there in Atlanta.

I could go on but the bottom line is that folks dedicated to a city made it happen through their efforts. It wasn’t just someone dropping in, building a tall building and leaving that made it so.

If we want to take Orlando to the next level, we have to develop the leaders who will have that same sort of dedication to the city and make it known there’s no place they’d rather call home. Without that, we’ll always be nothing more than a Lake Mary on steroids.

For whatever reason, Ron chose not to make that commitment to Orlando. Apparently he did to Columbus. That’s great for him but my attention is on those who want to do amazing things here and move us onward.

 

 

I believe we have that base of citizens. The people I grew up with have moved back in droves and are supporting and creating a vibrant arts/music scene and culinary life.  We are a vibrant and divers city and its happening before our eyes. We just need to wake up and realize what's going on and capitalize on it. We may not be a traditional city, but lets be honest, what could be more "Orlando" than that? 

Edited September 22, 2022 by RedStar25
Left out a word.

[jliv]

See Austin.

Austin (as does Columbus) benefits from having the major state university co-located with the seat of state government. The tech industry which drives its economy has roots dating back to the 70’s and is directly connected to the university’s presence. Michael Dell basically started his mail-order computer business in a UT dorm room. Comparing Austin to Orlando is really apples to oranges, frankly.

What about Florida entrepreneurs? Think about how Jeff Bezos essentially grew up in South Florida, but as with many talented young people raised in Florida, he left as soon as he could and made his fortunes elsewhere. There’s something telling in that familiar story.

Anyhow, back to the pretty pictures of the new Society building. Can’t wait to see it when the windows are fully installed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[IAmFloridaBorn]

Edited October 3, 2022 by IAmFloridaBorn
add

[IAmFloridaBorn]

that second tower should fit in very nicely right here.

[codypet]

Oof from that last angle, the lack of the 2nd tower really sticks out.

Also does tower two sit ontop of the current pedestal or north of it?  I thought it was on top, but it would totally ruin the symmetry if it did.

Edited October 3, 2022 by codypet

[IAmFloridaBorn]

5 minutes ago, codypet said:

Oof from that last angle, the lack of the 2nd tower really sticks out.

Also does tower two sit ontop of the current pedestal or north of it?  I thought it was on top, but it would totally ruin the symmetry if it did.

Central station and a streeetway is immediately to the North leading me to believe it will be on top. Im no engineer though so i sont know. 

[JFW657]

3 minutes ago, codypet said:

Oof from that last angle, the lack of the 2nd tower really sticks out.

Also does tower two sit ontop of the current pedestal or north of it?  I thought it was on top, but it would totally ruin the symmetry if it did.

If you look closely at the facade of the base, it appears that, in order to maintain said symmetry, the new tower and pedestal will be connected to the north side of the current pedestal. Plus, there would be an appreciable amount of wasted land if they built on top. Seems that way to me anyway.