Society | 28- & 17-Story Residential [Under Construction]

[codypet]

10 hours ago, W7edwin said:

the whole entire thing is hideous. throw it away 

 

this is much better. just copy this design with the building on the right that says "east" on the top and call it a day

 

 

Carbon copies of the building in each city?  Worked for Skyhouse.

[I am Reality]

Let's not compare the project to Brickell. 

How much larger is the footprint of Brickell?  It's certainly larger than a single city-block.

Brickell is a world-class development many times larger in size.  

I don't think the Orlando project is meant to be anything even close to Brickell.  Nor should it be.

Having said that, the design of X Orlando is not perfect.  The problem, as it always is, is parking.  There are 3 parking options:  (1) a parking "podium" like the one planned; (2) a preferred on-site garage attached to the buildings like Radius's planned garage , or; (3) no parking at all.  

If X Orlando wants the 3 towers, there is no room for option #2 (or green space). 

I'd be skeptical if option #2 is even a real option for a revised 2-tower plan.  It may still be too crowded,  It's not a huge piece of land.

 

 

 

 

[shardoon]

There used to be so much more room here if it wasn't for the crappy wooden apt building next door. Still don't understand why that metro west style building was ever approved for such an iconic location.

[I am Reality]

29 minutes ago, shardoon said:

There used to be so much more room here if it wasn't for the crappy wooden apt building next door. Still don't understand why that metro west style building was ever approved for such an iconic location.

Agreed.

From my point-of-view...residential development doesn't even belong at those sites. 

The land is across the freaking street from the courthouse.

That should be a PRIME location for office development.

Large (multi-city or even multi-national) law firms should be fighting for offices at that location.

Same for the Radius site.

If office development can't be bullt there, that really says something.

[IAmFloridaBorn]

37 minutes ago, I am Reality said:

Agreed.

From my point-of-view...residential development doesn't even belong at those sites. 

The land is across the freaking street from the courthouse.

That should be a PRIME location for office development.

Large (multi-city or even multi-national) law firms should be fighting for offices at that location.

Same for the Radius site.

If office development can't be bullt there, that really says something.

Well why does it matter what goes on the lot? So as long as the lot goes developed?

[alex]

As much as I love the idea of Brickell City Centre, the pedestrian experience around the perimeter isn't great, with almost now exterior windows or doors around the perimeter.

I agree, @dcluley98, an urban Target here would be perfect.

[spenser1058]

1 minute ago, alex said:

As much as I love the idea of Brickell City Centre, the pedestrian experience around the perimeter isn't great, with almost now exterior windows or doors around the perimeter.

I agree, @dcluley98, an urban Target here would be perfect.

The latest urban Target announced is for the downtown near Purdue. UCF/Valencia would seem to be our best shot at getting one since they really seem to like the college crowd for these.

[codypet]

1 hour ago, IAmFloridaBorn said:

Well why does it matter what goes on the lot? So as long as the lot goes developed?

If +1 couldn't get the preleases, to build that tower on the SE corner of Livingston and Orange, I doubt there's that much demand for law firm office space.  Most of the law firms I see reside in their own buildings along Magnolia.  Makes sense as some of them probably existed when the Courthouse was where the History Center is now.

1 hour ago, spenser1058 said:

The latest urban Target announced is for the downtown near Purdue. UCF/Valencia would seem to be our best shot at getting one since they really seem to like the college crowd for these.

I would like an urban Target as much as the next person, but with the closing of the Target in Pine Hills a few years back, as well as the Kissimmee Target (due to the decline of the surrounding neighborhood), and its proximity to SODO and E Colonial, I just don't see a Target going in there.   A Walmart Neighborhood Market or even a Sprouts I could see.  Sprouts is already coming into Winter Park and Oviedo.  A downtown location makes sense.  I had previously envisioned an urban Winn Dixie, but they had to go and be Winn Dixie and go bankrupt again.

Edited April 18, 2018 by codypet

[jrs2]

54 minutes ago, codypet said:

If +1 couldn't get the preleases, to build that tower on the SE corner of Livingston and Orange, I doubt there's that much demand for law firm office space.  Most of the law firms I see reside in their own buildings along Magnolia.  Makes sense as some of them probably existed when the Courthouse was where the History Center is now.

I would like an urban Target as much as the next person, but with the closing of the Target in Pine Hills a few years back, as well as the Kissimmee Target (due to the decline of the surrounding neighborhood), and its proximity to SODO and E Colonial, I just don't see a Target going in there.   A Walmart Neighborhood Market or even a Sprouts I could see.  Sprouts is already coming into Winter Park and Oviedo.  A downtown location makes sense.  I had previously envisioned an urban Winn Dixie, but they had to go and be Winn Dixie and go bankrupt again.

yeah, you remember that?  The Target used to be at that plaza at Hiawassee & 50, then they moved into that new building just to the west...and then it all went to hell.

Walmart was at 50 & Kirkman and then they built the newer one at Metrowest Blvd and closed the old one.  Walmart did build the one at Princeton & JYP a few short years ago.

I think Target downtown is waaay different than those recent locations I mentioned above for them and it's competitor.

2 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

The latest urban Target announced is for the downtown near Purdue. UCF/Valencia would seem to be our best shot at getting one since they really seem to like the college crowd for these.

weren't we discussing the new one in Gainesville a couple of months back near UF off of 13th?

[jgardnerucf]

Been discussing this for years. C'mon now.

[WAJAS]

Brickell City Centre is amazing on the inside and pretty subpar on the outside.  It doesn't activate the streets at all.  I've visited the area multiple times (as I live in Miami at the moment), and it is definitely isolated from its surroundings, which is not ideal.

This building honestly is terrible.  I don't see a way this design ever looks good without major changes. 

[spenser1058]

45 minutes ago, jgardnerucf said:

Been discussing this for years. C'mon now.

No one has expressed more frustration on these boards about downtown retail than I have. However, there's been a significant little boost to indie retail of late. Of course, we got the Walgreen (sans pharmacy.) My cautious optimism on chain retail comes from administrators at UCF who are fully expectant that will happen through use of their connections. Stay tuned, I guess.

[Dale]

Ironically, as residential has increased over the past decade or so, seems that retail has suffered. I would have expected the reverse. Orange Avenue in the 90's was a vibrant stretch. Not only restaurants but shops, newsstands, etc. There was even an arcade or two.

[spenser1058]

Just now, Dale said:

Ironically, as residential has increased over the past decade or so, seems that retail has suffered. I would have expected the reverse. Orange Avenue in the 90's was a vibrant stretch. Not only restaurants but shops, newsstands, etc. There was even an arcade or two.

There were reasons for that although it was heartbreaking. Rents increased and the Main Streets programs made other areas more attractive. Festival marketplaces fell out of favor and selling Church St Station to a utility didn't help (along with the demise of NTC Orlando and competition from Pleasure Island/City Walk) as well as all the new downtown bars. The lack of a viable champion at DDB also was a downer.

[Jernigan]

- Retail wants a residential base of 30k and we are at about 16k.  

- Walgreens was a good example of them being strategic to “hold the corner” even if they didn’t hit their numbers.   They’ve hit their numbers.

- Wahlburgers was a coup and creatively made it a combo restaurant/corporate office to offset not making their numbers.  They’ve consistently hit their numbers

- Despite all of this, retail is ultra risk-adverse.   The other stores doing well doesn’t matter a bit.  Walgreens could lend itself to a CVS coming sooner.

- The liquor law change is going to be big for small restaurants to survive and thrive.   

- City probably needs to regulate the number of bars coming in since they can afford rents that the shops we want to see can’t and drive up rents.

- Everything will change in 2 years.  Go Knights.

[Dale]

11 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

There were reasons for that although it was heartbreaking. Rents increased and the Main Streets programs made other areas more attractive. Festival marketplaces fell out of favor and selling Church St Station to a utility didn't help (along with the demise of NTC Orlando and competition from Pleasure Island/City Walk) as well as all the new downtown bars. The lack of a viable champion at DDB also was a downer.

Remember hosting some Indian businessmen in the mid-nineties. Took them down the Church Street which they appraised as being [sic] "wery unique!" I know how urban purists feel about chain restaurants. But that Olive Garden on the skybridge was a cool place. Sharper Image next door, horse-drawn carriages underneath, the little labrynth of delights that was the Bumby Arcade, etc.

Oh, and get off my lawn you damned kids!

Edited April 18, 2018 by Dale

[spenser1058]

1 minute ago, Dale said:

Remember hosting some Indian businessmen in the mid-nineties. Took them down the Church Street which they appraised as being [sic] "wery unique!" I know how urban purists feel about chain restaurants. But that Olive Garden on the skybridge was a cool place. Sharper Image next door, horse-drawn carriages underneath, the little labrynth of delights that was the Bumby Arcade, etc.

I ate at that OG a lot (and the tucked away Boston Market while it lasted.) I also disgusted my friends by eating anchovies at Uno.

[Dale]

16 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

There were reasons for that although it was heartbreaking. Rents increased and the Main Streets programs made other areas more attractive. Festival marketplaces fell out of favor and selling Church St Station to a utility didn't help (along with the demise of NTC Orlando and competition from Pleasure Island/City Walk) as well as all the new downtown bars. The lack of a viable champion at DDB also was a downer.

Notably, in the early nineties, one of the principals at Spillis Candela opined, "Bit by bit, Orlando is building the finest downtown in the US."

[spenser1058]

It's interesting that whenever urban experts come to town they tend to say the same thing. Sadly, a lot of folks are so concerned about our building heights they miss that we're actually doing some great things with quality of life at the street level. If the frontrunner for HQ2 wins (suburban DC) that competition, our Amazon booster here is going to be shocked by how short the buildings are (and in the actual core of DC, they're even shorter by law.)

[Dale]

Boy, if the Orlando Magic can't parlay UCF-Valencia into momentum for their retail center ...

[shardoon]

29 minutes ago, Dale said:

Boy, if the Orlando Magic can't parlay UCF-Valencia into momentum for their retail center ...

I've lost faith in anything that ownership does. They simply stink in all fields they dig their hands in. The only thing they seem to be good at is working politicians and overseeing the construction of the Amway Center.

[I am Reality]

1 hour ago, spenser1058 said:

It's interesting that whenever urban experts come to town they tend to say the same thing. Sadly, a lot of folks are so concerned about our building heights they miss that we're actually doing some great things with quality of life at the street level. If the frontrunner for HQ2 wins (suburban DC) that competition, our Amazon booster here is going to be shocked by how short the buildings are (and in the actual core of DC, they're even shorter by law.)

I assume you are referring to me as the "Amazon booster."  

Orlando & D.C. (city or suburbs) are a poor comparison..  

If you want talk about income, education, professional jobs, and upward mobility, they are in a different league.

I used to live outside D.C.  It has a great energy.  I was up there a few months ago for work.  It was even better.  I ate at a Georgian restaurant.  Georgian...as in the former Soviet republic, not the state.  It was the most interesting/sophisticated meal I had ever had.  Great stuff.

As for your remarks about building size, I don't care much.  With few exceptions, I have little interest in height.  I don't think most people do.  I've already said I was surprised when I found out about height enthusiasts; I'd never even heard anyone even talk about it before.  But I don't begrudge anyone who is into it.

I have always thought of skyscrapers as a sign of economic strength.  There are a few exceptions of course (D.C., Silicon Valley).  But I am usually more impressed with good jobs than buildings.  

If I had to pick my favorite skyline, I would probably pick Vancouver.  Couldn't really tell you why.  I love Wilmington, DE (a sleeper corporate town, with a short but full skyline).  London has some pretty unorthodox buildings.  I love the old cast-iron townhouses in NYC more than the skyscrapers.  I love the old mansions in Newport, RI.  I never made the connection between great architecture with height (with a few exceptions).  I personally think Dubai looks tacky.  

Those are just my opinions...

[smileguy]

5 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

No one has expressed more frustration on these boards about downtown retail than I have. However, there's been a significant little boost to indie retail of late. Of course, we got the Walgreen (sans pharmacy.) My cautious optimism on chain retail comes from administrators at UCF who are fully expectant that will happen through use of their connections. Stay tuned, I guess.

Real retail, or restaurants? I wonder if they don't have some Aramark chains up their sleeve. 

[Jernigan]

Don’t hold your breath on “real retail.”   The Mall at Millenia is 3 miles away and one of the top ones in the country.   Toys R Us and Sears also said they aren’t interested

[spenser1058]

18 hours ago, jrs2 said:

yeah, you remember that?  The Target used to be at that plaza at Hiawassee & 50, then they moved into that new building just to the west...and then it all went to hell.

Walmart was at 50 & Kirkman and then they built the newer one at Metrowest Blvd and closed the old one.  Walmart did build the one at Princeton & JYP a few short years ago.

I think Target downtown is waaay different than those recent locations I mentioned above for them and it's competitor.

weren't we discussing the new one in Gainesville a couple of months back near UF off of 13th?

I'm detecting a trend here. Yet another Urban Target announced near... the University of Kentucky campus.

http://amp.kentucky.com/news/local/counties/fayette-county/article209210329.html