Cool Stuff in Other Cities

[HankStrong]

I can't wait!

Although, when this came up in years past the recommendation wasn't a joking "FLAVORTOWN" but to rename it to Buckeye, Ohio.  That way the branding would basically remain the same.

[spenser1058]

5 minutes ago, HankStrong said:

I can't wait!

Although, when this came up in years past the recommendation wasn't a joking "FLAVORTOWN" but to rename it to Buckeye, Ohio.  That way the branding would basically remain the same.

As long as they don’t try to name it after Urban Meyer, I’m good.

[spenser1058]

As we move forward, just how much office space do we really need? What effect will it have on office towers? 

https://www.1843magazine.com/features/death-of-the-office

From The Economist

[JFW657]

16 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

@AndyPok1 and @HankStrong have been waiting for this: no more Columbus, OH. It’s going to be renamed Flavortown!

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/21/us/guy-fieri-flavortown-columbus-ohio-petition-trnd/index.html
 

From CNN

This could start a trend - Gainesville can go back to Hogtown and Jacksonville to Cow Ford. Imagine the possibilities!

Give them the slightest reason and the loonies come running out of the woodwork like an insect infestation.

I'm sure if they looked hard enough, they could find something to be offended about in the life of Amerigo Vespucci, so I guess the kooks will soon be petitioning to change the name of America to something more politically correct and reflective of social justice and  diversity.

It would have to be something that includes or is in some way significant to everyone.

Everyone with the exception of heterosexual, white males, of course.  

Given the rise in popularity of and newfound power in proclaiming victimhood, I'm thinking we should rename our country....

VICTIMERICA!!!!!  

[spenser1058]

Feel better now? Maybe if the straight white males running things for all these centuries had been more inclusive in the first place and not so bent on subjugating others there wouldn’t be all this pent up anger now.

Anyway, I defer to Thomas Jefferson (who had his own problems with subjugation), who said, “I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical.”

Name changes are a heck of a lot less bloody than wars.

It’s not unusual to change names, anyway, as I noted with Hogtown and Cow Ford.

In this case, the reasons are a lot more valid than, say, Truth or Consequences, New Mexico, which changed its name to attract the attention of a game show. Africa is full of names changed by straight white makes just because they could. And then there’s Istanbul, originally renamed from Byzantium to Constantinople so a straight white male could glorify himself.

There’s also Orlando, where we sort of made up the whole thing as we went along.

Join the rebellion, @JFW657, the world’s moving on with or without us! 

 

[JFW657]

Yes, it's too bad society wasn't as "woke" centuries ago as we are today.

Instead of brash, bold visionaries grabbing the reins and doing whatever it took to get things done, build empires and conquer obstacles, they could have formed committees and made inclusiveness and diversity their number one priority.

And today, we would all be living in the same size straw huts as everyone else and wearing the same animal skins for clothing.  

How awesome that would be.  

[spenser1058]

4 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

Yes, it's too bad society wasn't as "woke" centuries ago as we are today.

Instead of brash, bold visionaries grabbing the reins and doing whatever it took to get things done, build empires and conquer obstacles, they could have formed committees and made inclusiveness and diversity their number one priority.

And today, we would all be living in the same size straw huts as everyone else and wearing the same animal skins for clothing.  

How awesome that would be.  

And killing billions in the process. Interesting you wish to hang your hat with those guys (and they were mostly all guys).  Embrace the progress!

[Uncommon]

7 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

Yes, it's too bad society wasn't as "woke" centuries ago as we are today.

Instead of brash, bold visionaries grabbing the reins and doing whatever it took to get things done, build empires and conquer obstacles, they could have formed committees and made inclusiveness and diversity their number one priority.

And today, we would all be living in the same size straw huts as everyone else and wearing the same animal skins for clothing.  

How awesome that would be.  

So you vehemently oppose the protesting that has been occurring recently but it’s okay when white males do this?
 

Priceless.

[JFW657]

1 minute ago, spenser1058 said:

And killing billions in the process. Interesting you wish to hang your hat with those guys (and they were mostly all guys).  Embrace the progress!

"Those guys" built our modern world and did so within the social parameters of the times in which they lived.

Using hindsight to look back hundreds and even thousands of years to point the finger of shame and talk about what bad people they were is "not particularly realistic" to put it.... politely.

1 minute ago, Uncommon said:

So you vehemently oppose the protesting that has been occurring recently but it’s okay when white males do this?
 

Priceless.

When white males do what?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't the recent spate of protest marches been comprised of plenty of white males too?

What have white males been doing that I'm allegedly OK with?

[spenser1058]

1 minute ago, JFW657 said:

"Those guys" built our modern world and did so within the social parameters of the times in which they lived.

Using hindsight to look back hundreds and even thousands of years to point the finger of shame and talk about what bad people they were is "not particularly realistic" to put it.... politely.

What’s a few billion murders, right, JFW? We’ve learned as we progress that we can move forward while respecting others (Christ, for example, never killed anybody but his message is still powerful 2000 years later). Meanwhile, why rub the noses of all those treated badly when we can make a change? 

[JFW657]

Just now, spenser1058 said:

What’s a few billion murders, right, JFW? We’ve learned as we progress that we can move forward while respecting others (Christ, for example, never killed anybody but his message is still powerful 2000 years later). Meanwhile, why rub the noses of all those treated badly when we can make a change? 

If events of thousands of years ago upsets one so badly, one should work on inventing time travel, so they can go back in time and tell these horrible white men what poopy heads they were being and how if they really want to build empires and accomplish enormous feats that will propel technological advances that move society forward, they should ask politely and make sure all genders, cross-genders, trans-genders, those who are one gender but identify as another, races, creeds, skin colors, religious beliefs, nationalities..... (I sure as hell hope I'm not leaving anyone out here!!!! ) are included in the process and all of their considerations are taken into account and nobody feels left out or marginalized.

If that was even a word back then. 

[spenser1058]

14 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

If events of thousands of years ago upsets one so badly, one should work on inventing time travel, so they can go back in time and tell these horrible white men what poopy heads they were being and how if they really want to build empires and accomplish enormous feats that will propel technological advances that move society forward, they should ask politely and make sure all genders, cross-genders, trans-genders, those who are one gender but identify as another, races, creeds, skin colors, religious beliefs, nationalities..... (I sure as hell hope I'm not leaving anyone out here!!!! ) are included in the process and all of their considerations are taken into account and nobody feels left out or marginalized.

If that was even a word back then. 

Is it enjoyable being on the wrong side of history? I’ve always wondered.

[JFW657]

14 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

What’s a few billion murders, right, JFW? We’ve learned as we progress that we can move forward while respecting others (Christ, for example, never killed anybody but his message is still powerful 2000 years later). Meanwhile, why rub the noses of all those treated badly when we can make a change? 

And BTW, how is changing the name of Columbus Ohio or Eskimo Pies going to make the world a more peaceful, prosperous and fair place?

All this stuff is accomplishing, is that it's making everyone else roll their eyes, shake their heads (and in some cases laugh) at those who are attempting to force it.

While driving these same mostly fair, reasonable people farther away and farther toward the right in the process.

Like it or not, a large portion of society, (and not just Trump's 40%), are seeing this all as a giant hissy-fit that is not to be taken seriously.

People are tiring of it.

You cannot change people's minds by beating them over the head or forcing change down their throats.

Just now, spenser1058 said:

Is it enjoyable being on the wrong side of history? I’ve always wondered.

Who says what is and isn't the wrong side of history?

I'm getting the impression that, outside of Central Florida, you have a somewhat weak understanding of history.

[jack]

You should judge figures from the lens of their own environment. For example, Woodrow Wilson was a POS, he was during his time and he is today. His name should not be celebrated anywhere. Robert E. Lee, a bit more complicated. John C. Calhoun, maybe the worst historical figure ever, Andrew Jackson, could go either way. 

All of this change we are seeing now is shocking because we suffer from recency bias. Cities have changed names throughout time, products are rebranded to meet the tase of current consumers. 

[JFW657]

2 minutes ago, jack said:

You should judge figures from the lens of their own environment. For example, Woodrow Wilson was a POS, he was during his time and he is today. His name should not be celebrated anywhere. Robert E. Lee, a bit more complicated. John C. Calhoun, maybe the worst historical figure ever, Andrew Jackson, could go either way. 

All of this change we are seeing now is shocking because we suffer from recency bias. Cities have changed names throughout time, products are rebranded to meet the tase of current consumers. 

The leading figures of history WERE ACTING WITHIN THE SOCIAL NORMS AND PARAMETERS OF THE TIMES IN WHICH THEY LIVED.

To retroactively expect them to have possessed the same social consciousness as is expected of people today is not only unrealistic, it's just foolish.

[jack]

Just now, JFW657 said:

The leading figures of history WERE ACTING WITHIN THE SOCIAL NORMS AND PARAMETERS OF THE TIMES IN WHICH THEY LIVED.

To retroactively expect them to have possessed the same social consciousness as is expected of people today is not only unrealistic, it's just foolish.

Do you really think John C. Calhoun's beliefs were common? And Woodrow Wilson? They had supporters but their views and actions set the county back.  

[JFW657]

4 minutes ago, jack said:

Do you really think John C. Calhoun's beliefs were common? And Woodrow Wilson? They had supporters but their views and actions set the county back.  

Tell me how much better or farther ahead America would be today without theses two men having held their views.

Would we have faster internet service? Cooler smart phones? Better flat screen TV's? More efficient cars? Flying cars? More and better fast food choices? Hipper music? More stylish clothing?

Would everyone be millionaires?

We live in a land that is so ridiculously wealthy and where the average American has such an unbelievable abundance of opportunity and choices compared to countries where real oppression exists, that I'm almost ashamed to brag about it.

People nowadays are spoiled and some, supremely ungrateful for what we've got. 

[AmIReal]

11 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

The leading figures of history WERE ACTING WITHIN THE SOCIAL NORMS AND PARAMETERS OF THE TIMES IN WHICH THEY LIVED

As are the protesters of today.

I think it is way to easy to get distracted by the minor issues that some seem to focus on while losing sight of the larger issues that are being debated. Those that are upset by name changes or rebranding are watching the red herring that is being tossed around. The intention is to make one focus on minor crap while avoiding the true topic. If a company wants to change their name why should you or anyone care. Same thing if a company wants to change their image. Regardless if they do it for the "right" reason or not is as unimportant that they do it at all.

All of the great movements in history come with uprisings of the people. Our country is based on that as are our finest civil advances. Not everyone makes their mark by "faster internet service? Cooler smart phones? Better flat screen TV's? More efficient cars? Flying cars? More and better fast food choices? Hipper music? More stylish clothing?" There are many ways to improve society that may not be measured by monetary valuation.

[jack]

Well, you could argue that Calhoun was the main architect of the civil war. As a senator, he held a no compromise belief that inhibited a political solution. I could write a book  Woodrow Wilson's atrocities starting with WW 1. 

Edited June 22, 2020 by jack

[JFW657]

3 minutes ago, AmIReal said:

As are the protesters of today.

I think it is way to easy to get distracted by the minor issues that some seem to focus on while losing sight of the larger issues that are being debated. Those that are upset by name changes or rebranding are watching the red herring that is being tossed around. The intention is to make one focus on minor crap while avoiding the true topic. If a company wants to change their name why should you or anyone care. Same thing if a company wants to change their image. Regardless if they do it for the "right" reason or not is as unimportant that they do it at all.

All of the great movements in history come with uprisings of the people. Our country is based on that as are our finest civil advances. Not everyone makes their mark by "faster internet service? Cooler smart phones? Better flat screen TV's? More efficient cars? Flying cars? More and better fast food choices? Hipper music? More stylish clothing?" There are many ways to improve society that may not be measured by monetary valuation.

I get all that.

I just don't necessarily believe that it's possible to make everyone 100% happy, which is what it's beginning to appear is what the new expectations are.

And where does it stop? Ever hear the old adage "Give people an inch and they'll take a mile"? 

No matter what society does to appease the supposedly "marginalized" they will find something else to claim they are being denied by smeone else. Or someone else will come along and make a whole new set of demands.

Eventually. all the great changes being made today will have to be changed because they are stepping on a new set of toes.

My biggest argument is with the idea of blaming people who lived centuries and millennia ago for every imperfection in today's world as if they had the same benefit of history to learn from that we have.

Holding history to today's standards just makes no sense.

 

[JFW657]

5 minutes ago, jack said:

Well, you could argue that Calhoun was the main architect of the civil war. As a senator, he held a no compromise belief that inhibited a political solution. I could write a book  Woodrow Wilson's atrocities.  

And if the things they helped occur hadn't happened, we wouldn't have had the wisdom of hindsight we have today.

Had the Civil War not happened, who knows what might have happened instead that might have been even worse.

Had Hitler and The Holocaust not come along, we might have ended up facing something many times worse.

That's why we can't point the finger of blame at the past. 

Things happened without the lessons of history that those same things taught us.

We are wiser because of them.

[AmIReal]

4 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

I get all that.

I just don't necessarily believe that it's possible to make everyone 100% happy, which is what it's beginning to appear is what the new expectations are.

And where does it stop? Ever hear the old adage "Give people an inch and they'll take a mile"? 

No matter what society does to appease the supposedly "marginalized" they will find something else to claim they are being denied by smeone else. Or someone else will come along and make a whole new set of demands.

Eventually. all the great changes being made today will have to be changed because they are stepping on a new set of toes.

My biggest argument is with the idea of blaming people who lived centuries and millennia ago for every imperfection in today's world as if they had the same benefit of history to learn from that we have.

Holding history to today's standards just makes no sense.

 

And I agree with that I just try to not get lost in what is trying to be gained on the larger scale. Change (good and bad) comes in upheaval and then levels off.

1 minute ago, JFW657 said:

And if the things they helped occur hadn't happened, we wouldn't have had the wisdom of hindsight we have today.

Had the Civil War not happened, who knows what might have happened instead that might have been even worse.

Had Hitler and The Holocaust not come along, we might have ended up facing something many times worse.

That's why we can't point the finger of blame at the past. 

Things happened without the lessons of history that those same things taught us.

We are wiser because of them.

That is a mighty slippery thought process...

[JFW657]

1 minute ago, AmIReal said:

And I agree with that I just try to not get lost in what is trying to be gained on the larger scale. Change (good and bad) comes in upheaval and then levels off.

That is a mighty slippery thought process...

We learn from the past and mistakes made.

We cannot change the past by saying "shoulda, coulda, woulda". 

It is what it is. 

[Uncommon]

1 hour ago, JFW657 said:

"Those guys" built our modern world and did so within the social parameters of the times in which they lived.

Using hindsight to look back hundreds and even thousands of years to point the finger of shame and talk about what bad people they were is "not particularly realistic" to put it.... politely.

When white males do what?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't the recent spate of protest marches been comprised of plenty of white males too?

What have white males been doing that I'm allegedly OK with?

The part I bolded.

You suggested that you are in agreement with the “bold visionaries [of the past, i.e. white males] grabbing the reins and doing whatever it took to get things done” instead of being concerned with equality or inclusivity.
 

So right now, protestors or “bold visionaries” are marching and forcefully, intentionally “grabbing the reins” specifically FOR black equality and “doing whatever it takes to get things done.” How do you feel about it?

 

 

[JFW657]

20 minutes ago, Uncommon said:

The part I bolded.

You suggested that you are in agreement with the “bold visionaries [of the past, i.e. white males] grabbing the reins and doing whatever it took to get things done” instead of being concerned with equality or inclusivity.
 

So right now, protestors or “bold visionaries” are marching and forcefully, intentionally “grabbing the reins” specifically FOR black equality and “doing whatever it takes to get things done.” How do you feel about it?

I'm not "in agreement".

I don't celebrate the injustices of human history, which BTW date back to before the Pharaohs of ancient Egypt who enslaved millions into lives of servitude, hard labor and capricious, brutal death.

Who would be happy about something like that?

You'd have to have an almost cartoonish, Hollywood TV villain view of someone to think they'd be "in agreement" with such things.

I'm just saying that previous societies allowed things to happen because that was the kind of behavior people were familiar with and expected out of some, if not most of their fellow men. 

OTOH, had those bad things not occurred, as nice as it is to imagine, the world would not be what it is today. Nothing would have gotten accomplished because every group would have been vying for and demanding their interests be included and acknowledged.

Nations and empires would not have been built, new lands would not have been discovered.

Had the original pioneers been sensitive and respectful of the native tribes already here, America almost certainly would not exist.

You and I would not even be arguing the subject as neither computers nor the internet would likely exist.

Have you ever heard anyone bemoan the concept of "design by committee"? That's when you give everyone's input equal weight and attempt to make the end result satisfy everyone, but you end up either creating something that benefits no one or doing nothing.