Cool Stuff in Other Cities

[dcluley98]

I was thinking about taking a trip back home this week and stopping by.    I especially want to see that Echelman sculpture thingy in real life. 

Looks a bit too crowded right now for my liking currently, however. 

[Uncommon]

4 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Just for @dcluley98: a look at St. Pete’s new pier.

https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/a-virtual-tour-of-the-new-st-pete-pier
 

From The Jaxson

How little things add up to big wins in cities (and for @Uncommon, by a baseball team owner, no less!):

https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/small-ball-gets-big-results-for-communities
 

From The Jaxson

Great story, I appreciate the read!

[JFW657]

5 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Just for @dcluley98: a look at St. Pete’s new pier.

https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/a-virtual-tour-of-the-new-st-pete-pier
 

Personally, I think that little outhouse/shed  thing they built out on the end is underwhelming at best.

I'd like to have seen them go with this design, which resembles the old one....

....with a cafe or bar and grill on the top deck.

Too bad they didn't ask me first.....  

[spenser1058]

Antiquated suburban parking rules for creative urban building reuse cause a multitude of ridiculous problems... it even dooms trees:

https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/will-parking-derail-post-modern-brewing
 

From The Jaxson 

SAVE THE TREE 

[jack]

20 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Antiquated suburban parking rules for creative urban building reuse cause a multitude of ridiculous problems... it even dooms trees:

https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/will-parking-derail-post-modern-brewing
 

From The Jaxson 

SAVE THE TREE 

The whole point of a PUD is to offer solutions to antiquated zoning policies. Since it acts as a rezoning/ordinance change the city could write into the ordinance the shared parking agreements etc. This is a great example of a municipality not willing to work with the applicant. Must of gotten pushback from the neighbors. 

[prahaboheme]

On 7/21/2020 at 7:13 AM, spenser1058 said:

Just for @dcluley98: a look at St. Pete’s new pier.

https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/a-virtual-tour-of-the-new-st-pete-pier
 

From The Jaxson

How little things add up to big wins in cities (and for @Uncommon, by a baseball team owner, no less!):

https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/small-ball-gets-big-results-for-communities
 

From The Jaxson

St Pete def hit a home run with this development. 

[spenser1058]

A look at the Riverwalk in Downtown Tampa:

https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/sights-scenes-the-tampa-riverwalk
 

Frim The Jaxson

[spenser1058]

A reminder that notable architecture doesn’t require skyscrapers - the case of Columbus, Indiana:

https://www.fastcompany.com/3064965/the-little-known-midwestern-town-that-modernism-built
 

From Fast Company

An updated version right here at home -Celebration:

https://www.thoughtco.com/celebration-florida-disneys-ideal-community-178231

From Thought Co.
 

What’s interesting is that in both cases, the decision to seek out unique architecture cane from businessmen: the head of Cummins in Indiana and Disney chief Michael Eisner in Florida.

 

[spenser1058]

Finally, the best looking skyscraper in Central Florida is still Bok Tower from the 1920’s:

https://www.google.com/search?q=bok+tower&rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS904US904&oq=bok+&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0l3.10298j1j7&hl=en-US&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#fid=0x88dd090ea5023a99:0x834c281787a1fea1&fpstate=luuv&imagekey=!1e10!2sAF1QipNNc4vgZe3hsKhkXOv5rcAbbUkKkqBE_CGV7mBf&trex=m_t:lcl_akp,rc_f:nav,rc_ludocids:9460980998723468961,rc_q:Bok%20Tower%20Gardens,ru_q:Bok%20Tower%20Gardens,trex_id:IliVdc&viewerState=lb

[spenser1058]

When “urban renewal” took out the center of Tampa’s vibrant African-American community in the ‘50’s and ‘60’s, and today’s effort to bring it back:

https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/central-park-reviving-the-scrub
 

From The Jaxson 

[spenser1058]

What becomes of the Trop site after the Rays leave? St. Pete has opened bids for developers.

Interestingly, whereas in Orlando our administration would let developers do whatever they wanted, there are specific requirements like restoring the street grid and ensuring what’s done can be weaved back in to the fabric of the city:

https://www.tampabay.com/news/st-petersburg/2020/07/27/st-petersburg-begins-hunt-for-developers-to-reimagine-tropicana-field-site/
 

From the Tampa Bay Times 

[AmIReal]

28 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

What becomes of the Trop site after the Rays leave? St. Pete has opened bids for developers.

Interestingly, whereas in Orlando our administration would let developers do whatever they wanted, there are specific requirements like restoring the street grid and ensuring what’s done can be weaved back in to the fabric of the city:

https://www.tampabay.com/news/st-petersburg/2020/07/27/st-petersburg-begins-hunt-for-developers-to-reimagine-tropicana-field-site/
 

From the Tampa Bay Times 

The only local example I can think of right now is CV. I may not love every building they are building, but I think the overall scope has been handled fairly well and the expected outcome should benefit the public good and the developer. Can you think of other large scale, public owned properties in Orlando as comparison? 

[spenser1058]

Because the CV site was originally the fairgrounds and was never really part of the   grid and because I don’t know how much constraint there was given UCF and Valencia also played an active part, I’ve held back on any commentary about it. 

That said, it’s got a mostly sterile feel about it that leaves me underwhelmed. Yes, it’s definitely better than nothing, but that’s all I’ve got so far.

As to the next opportunity, I think MEC is one definitely missed. Two large city-owned properties were cleared for it (among others), and the administration, which simply handed it over to the Magic without any serious bidding (and, as Jack noted, without a shred of experience), seems content to let it lie fallow into perpetuity or until the DeVoses get bored and sell the team to someone, preferably competent.

But I know, as long as the developers get to maximize their profits, those of us living here just need to shut up and say “everything’s wonderful in this paradise!”After all, the mayor represents the developers and not the citizens, right?

[jack]

2 hours ago, AmIReal said:

The only local example I can think of right now is CV. I may not love every building they are building, but I think the overall scope has been handled fairly well and the expected outcome should benefit the public good and the developer. Can you think of other large scale, public owned properties in Orlando as comparison? 

CV is the best but Baldwin needs to be considered. 

It wasn't the case when it was built, but the Trop really is part of downtown now. I remember looking at the site 5 years ago and wondered when development would catch up to the area. This is a tremendous opportunity for the city and its residents. 

2 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Because the CV site was originally the fairgrounds and was never really part of the   grid and because I don’t know how much constraint there was given UCF and Valencia also played an active part, I’ve held back on any commentary about it. 

That said, it’s got a mostly sterile feel about it that leaves me underwhelmed. Yes, it’s definitely better than nothing, but that’s all I’ve got so far.

As to the next opportunity, I think MEC is one definitely missed. Two large city-owned properties were cleared for it (among others), and the administration, which simply handed it over to the Magic without any serious bidding (and, as Jack noted, without a shred of experience), seems content to let it lie fallow into perpetuity or until the DeVoses get bored and sell the team to someone, preferably competent.

But I know, as long as the developers get to maximize their profits, those of us living here just need to shut up and say “everything’s wonderful in this paradise!”After all, the mayor represents the developers and not the citizens, right?

CV could be better but I am happy with the outcome for the reason you outlined above. Institutional users are never easy to work with and the area was/is so isolated from the rest of downtown. 

The street grid at the MEC does not get high marks from me but I understand why they did it. Considering where we are in the cycle and the impact of Covid, I am not too bullish on this project. 

The MEC site was handed over but realistically, no one would have bid on it. The magic would have had an unfair advantage (perceived or not) to any bidder on the site. 

Edited July 27, 2020 by jack

[spenser1058]

Moving beyond Camden Yards - the latest in stadium design for baseball:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/mlbs-newest-ballpark-is-a-shift-away-from-retro-era-stadiums/
 

From 538

[spenser1058]

Because of the conservative nature of its elected leadership, downtown Jacksonville is behind us in several ways.

But I’m impressed by the work shown in this article about ways to tailor incentives to solve market failures in the downtown core. 
 
Notice, btw, it even addresses when there are too many of a certain kind of business coming in, a perennial problem for us downtown, from tattoo parlors to wig shops to 7-Elevens.

I’m often asked just what I think Thomas Chatmon and the DDB can do. This would be a good start.

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/the-plan-to-spur-downtown-dining-includes-incentives-for-restaurants
 

From Jax Daily Record

[jack]

5 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

Because of the conservative nature of its elected leadership, downtown Jacksonville is behind us in several ways.

But I’m impressed by the work shown in this article about ways to tailor incentives to solve market failures in the downtown core. 
 
Notice, btw, it even addresses when there are too many of a certain kind of business coming in, a perennial problem for us downtown, from tattoo parlors to wig shops to 7-Elevens.

I’m often asked just what I think Thomas Chatmon and the DDB can do. This would be a good start.

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/the-plan-to-spur-downtown-dining-includes-incentives-for-restaurants
 

From Jax Daily Record

Its more than that. Jax historically was a very conservative town with a large proportion of their real estate downtown owned by the baptist church. The latest word on the street is that they are financially strained and are selling assets throughout downtown. While the church  was being very selective, other urban areas were built up and have surpassed downtown as their urban hub. 

I find these other areas more interesting if you are deploying capital. 

[spenser1058]

1 minute ago, jack said:

Its more than that. Jax historically was a very conservative town with a large proportion of their real estate downtown owned by the baptist church. The latest word on the street is that they are financially strained and are selling assets throughout downtown. While the church  was being very selective, other urban areas were built up and have surpassed downtown as their urban hub. 

I find these other areas more interesting if you are deploying capital. 

Yes, First Baptist downtown did recently move to demolish a 100-year old historic Sunday school building. The preservationists fought to preserve it but lost out to the usual suspects.

FBC has a significant footprint on the north end of downtown Jax, but other areas like the riverfront (home of the recently demolished Jacksonville Landing), Hemming Park (mid-downtown and once the city’s retail hub), the west side (near the historic train station) and to the east (leading to the Gator Bowl are mostly unaffected by the Baptists).

[AmIReal]

7 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Because of the conservative nature of its elected leadership, downtown Jacksonville is behind us in several ways.

But I’m impressed by the work shown in this article about ways to tailor incentives to solve market failures in the downtown core. 
 
Notice, btw, it even addresses when there are too many of a certain kind of business coming in, a perennial problem for us downtown, from tattoo parlors to wig shops to 7-Elevens.

I’m often asked just what I think Thomas Chatmon and the DDB can do. This would be a good start.

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/the-plan-to-spur-downtown-dining-includes-incentives-for-restaurants
 

From Jax Daily Record

I don't really see how this applies to Orlando downtown. The Jax is "create a market beyond the daytime demand from the estimated 50,000 urban core employees and work toward a Downtown residential population of 10,000 to 12,000 people." That is fortunately not a problem we have. We have a very active downtown market. There are more than enough food and drink offerings, even if both of us feel they are not very good offerings. I'm sure you're thinking more along the retail line, but I still don't think retail- as it is typically defined would do well in our current downtown and paying retailers to move there- just to later close their doors- is, in my option, not a good plan.

[spenser1058]

Renovation of Jacksonville’s 22-story One Enterprise Center completed:

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/california-owner-updates-one-enterprise-center-downtown
 

From Jax Daily Record

[popsiclebrandon]

On 7/28/2020 at 9:30 AM, spenser1058 said:

Because of the conservative nature of its elected leadership, downtown Jacksonville is behind us in several ways.

But I’m impressed by the work shown in this article about ways to tailor incentives to solve market failures in the downtown core. 
 
Notice, btw, it even addresses when there are too many of a certain kind of business coming in, a perennial problem for us downtown, from tattoo parlors to wig shops to 7-Elevens.

I’m often asked just what I think Thomas Chatmon and the DDB can do. This would be a good start.

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/the-plan-to-spur-downtown-dining-includes-incentives-for-restaurants
 

From Jax Daily Record

As said above we have diff issues here. There was discussion on this during DTO stuff about how to better even the mix of bars and restaurants and I said unless landlords get an incentive to pick a certain type of business they will take the highest offer or most well funded offer to make their lives easier. Here focusing on parking would help more than giving cash to bars/restaurants. We already give incentives to white collar businesses so at this point unless they pay the rent of some big national tenants like a Target or whatever to come downtown they aren't going to see a huge shift in the makeup of our commercial space downtown beyond any normal market forces.

Will say though if approved I will be checking out this program to open a thing or two in Jax.

[orlandouprise]

No big deal...just another day in Austin, Tx

Another 53 story 606ft tower to be built...

Meanwhile in Orlando...   ***crickets***

[spenser1058]

An audacious plan by Jacksonville non-profits to create a network of riverfront parks along the St Johns:

https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/riverfront-parks-now-for-jacksonville
 

From The Jaxson 

[JFW657]

They got trouble,

Right there in River city!

With a capital "T"

And that rhymes with "P"

And that stands for Parks.

Edited August 2, 2020 by JFW657

[prahaboheme]

9 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

An audacious plan by Jacksonville non-profits to create a network of riverfront parks along the St Johns:

https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/riverfront-parks-now-for-jacksonville
 

From The Jaxson 

Agree with most of the points in this article. Bringing this back to Orlando, with an opportunity to create a world class “underline” beneath I-4 through downtown, I’ve seen nothing but mediocre ideas about how this area can be used.