Cool Stuff in Other Cities

[spenser1058]

By using PUD codes, Jacksonville’s Habitat for Humanity chapter has found a way to construct a neighborhood of tiny homes to combat pricing problems of housing in the market:

https://amp.jacksonville.com/amp/4868729001

From The Florida Times Union 
 

[spenser1058]

Removing highways and restoring neighborhoods- sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/05/27/climate/us-cities-highway-removal.html?referringSource=articleShare

From The New York Times 

[spenser1058]

A look at Lakeland’s Lake Mirror Park, which has managed to hold on to more of its surrounding history than we have at Eola:

https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/sights-and-scenes-lakelands-lake-mirror-park
https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/sights-and-scenes-lakelands-lake-mirror-park/

From The Jaxson 

[dcluley98]

In Tampa for work again this week and next week. The Water street project is really progressing. DT is pretty dead on a weeknight, except around where the Lightning game was. I think Orlando still is better DT than Tampa for street activity and walkability. Tampa has a lot of amenities downtown but not residents. Tall buildings are nice, but I still like Orlando and St. Pete better. I think channelside area and water street area will have more activity when more people move into condos and apartments on that side. The trolley as always is still pretty cool. Wish we had a trolley from Lock Haven through Ivanhoe and DT to South Eola and maybe Milk District to Camping World East-West.

 

[spenser1058]

1 minute ago, dcluley98 said:

In Tampa for work again this week and next week. The Water street project is really progressing. DT is pretty dead on a weeknight, except around where the Lightning game was. I think Orlando still is better DT than Tampa for street activity and walkability. Tampa has a lot of amenities downtown but not residents. Tall buildings are nice, but I still like Orlando and St. Pete better. I think channelside area and water street area will have more activity when more people move into condos and apartments on that side. The trolley as always is still pretty cool. Wish we had a trolley from Lock Haven through Ivanhoe and DT to South Eola and maybe Milk District to Camping World East-West.

 

I love Tampa’s City Hall so much. Jacksonville’s is also cool but I’ll always think of it as the flagship May-Cohens department store. Orlando’s would improve 100% if they get that God-awful sealer off the dome and let it weather naturally (one of the few miscues of Mayor Bill when it came to his vision for downtown).
 

[dcluley98]

4 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

I love Tampa’s City Hall so much. Jacksonville’s is also cool but I’ll always think of it as the flagship May-Cohens department store. Orlando’s would improve 100% if they get that God-awful sealer off the dome and let it weather naturally (one of the few miscues of Mayor Bill when it came to his vision for downtown).
 

I like it a lot too. Very similar to Freedom Tower in Miami which is also great, and a bit taller. 

[spenser1058]

As for the trolley, bring back our beloved OSCAR. While we’re at it, we could bring back the Dinky Line (although I think much of that was converted to the OUT).

[spenser1058]

Sometimes a cigar factory is not just a cigar factory… the Tampa preservationists struggle to keep owners from altering plans on restoration. Meanwhile, ownership is clouded over a fight on payments between partners:

https://www.tampabay.com/life-culture/history/2021/05/24/ownership-of-two-west-tampa-cigar-factories-is-in-dispute/?outputType=amp

From The Tampa Bay Times 
 

[spenser1058]

We’ve talked before about the Mr. Dunderbak’s that was one of the original eateries at Fashion Square (I want to say Altamonte Mall had one too but not sure). After the franchiser folded, the OFS store stayed open as Wunderbar.

The Volusia Mall location in Daytona is still soldiering on (the N-J recently interviewed its owner about the demise of the mall’s macy’s).

Lo and behold, it seems the Tampa outpost is also still in business and doing well. Who knew?

https://thatssotampa.com/mr-dunderbaks-tampa/amp/

From That’s So Tampa 
 

[spenser1058]

Developer proposes $1.1 billion dollar redo of Jacksonville’s Northbank. It includes the site of the demolished Jacksonville Landing:

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/dollar1-1-billion-riverfront-master-plan-proposed-for-downtown-jacksonville?amp

From The Jax Daily Record

 

[spenser1058]

Meanwhile, across the St Johns on the Southbank, and this one is breaking ground:

https://www.wokv.com/news/local/duval-county/new-community-under-development-jacksonvilles-southbank/ZATL5GXOIFDCDCHKIRHL6CPLBU/
 

From WOKV

[spenser1058]

Meanwhile, Jax’ third major proposal along the St Johns this week - this one by the Jags:

https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2021/06/03/jaguars-layout-plans-to-develop-shipyards-add-four-seasons-hotel-and-more-to-northbank/

From WJXT4

Meanwhile, the DeVoses and Buddy are listening for the return of the cicadas (which don’t come to Central Florida)…

 

[Uncommon]

16 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Meanwhile, Jax’ third major proposal along the St Johns this week - this one by the Jags:

https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2021/06/03/jaguars-layout-plans-to-develop-shipyards-add-four-seasons-hotel-and-more-to-northbank/

From WJXT4

Meanwhile, the DeVoses and Buddy are listening for the return of the cicadas (which don’t come to Central Florida)…

 

Most, including the strongest Jax proponents, don’t expect these projects to happen, especially the $1.1B dollar plan in which the developers is requesting for the city to pay half. Sorry, not happening. The truth is, downtown Jacksonville is simply not important enough to locals or even the government. If anything, it’s going to take someone with deep pockets who isn’t asking the city to pony up funds to help downtown Jax. Spoiler: it ain’t Khan.

[spenser1058]

4 minutes ago, Uncommon said:

Most, including the strongest Jax proponents, don’t expect these projects to happen, especially the $1.1B dollar plan in which the developers is requesting for the city to pay half. Sorry, not happening. The truth is, downtown Jacksonville is simply not important enough to locals or even the government. If anything, it’s going to take someone with deep pockets who isn’t asking the city to pony up funds to help downtown Jax. Spoiler: it ain’t Khan.

Ummm, the smallest is already underway. I’m not a Jags fan myself but at least he, unlike the Magic, has been taking steps to improve the team’s fortunes. Interestingly, I’ve heard several folks who believe the track record of the team proposing the Northbank project on the site of the Landing may actually happen. 

[Uncommon]

55 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

Ummm, the smallest is already underway. I’m not a Jags fan myself but at least he, unlike the Magic, has been taking steps to improve the team’s fortunes. Interestingly, I’ve heard several folks who believe the track record of the team proposing the Northbank project on the site of the Landing may actually happen. 

I meant no one expects the Jaguars projects to happen. Unless I’m mistaken, the one already under construction is not part of the Jags’ plans. Additionally, the $1.1B plan is sheer pie in the sky. Interesting how you were quick to denounce and sneer at Ponte’s Vertical Medical City but not this one. Your Orlando bashing is a bit hypocritical.

[spenser1058]

45 minutes ago, Uncommon said:

I meant no one expects the Jaguars projects to happen. Unless I’m mistaken, the one already under construction is not part of the Jags’ plans. Additionally, the $1.1B plan is sheer pie in the sky. Interesting how you were quick to denounce and sneer at Ponte’s Vertical Medical City but not this one. Your Orlando bashing is a bit hypocritical.

Not really, Ms. Ponte’s project never showed the least consideration for where seniors might actually want to live and she spent more time issuing press releases than getting to the actual work (it’s the same problem I have with The Donald - over promising and under delivering.) I work with people involved in restoring neighborhoods in Jax since the ‘70’s and they’re telling me that for the first time what’s happening downtown is real and they’re excited about it. It’s the same thing we found in Orlando after 14 years of Carl Langford (sound familiar?) when, for the first time in decades, downtown was the hot topic. That’s exactly where Orlando is now (history repeats itself), but Buddy and The Magic are the “before” picture.

Btw, the Jax Landing project has a track record downtown both with the refurbishment of the Barnett Bank building redo and are about to move on the Laura St. Trio. The trend is alive here while in Orlando, as @JFW657 likes to point out, each project gets “Orlando’d” . When it comes to downtowns, I have no problem betting on Jax over Orlando (at least until we get a leader again). In fact, I already have - I moved here. 

[Uncommon]

1 hour ago, spenser1058 said:

Not really, Ms. Ponte’s project never showed the least consideration for where seniors might actually want to live and she spent more time issuing press releases than getting to the actual work (it’s the same problem I have with The Donald - over promising and under delivering.) I work with people involved in restoring neighborhoods in Jax since the ‘70’s and they’re telling me that for the first time what’s happening downtown is real and they’re excited about it. It’s the same thing we found in Orlando after 14 years of Carl Langford (sound familiar?) when, for the first time in decades, downtown was the hot topic. That’s exactly where Orlando is now (history repeats itself), but Buddy and The Magic are the “before” picture.

Btw, the Jax Landing project has a track record downtown both with the refurbishment of the Barnett Bank building redo and are about to move on the Laura St. Trio. The trend is alive here while in Orlando, as @JFW657 likes to point out, each project gets “Orlando’d” . When it comes to downtowns, I have no problem betting on Jax over Orlando (at least until we get a leader again). In fact, I already have - I moved here. 

We’ll see. I want Jax to succeed as much as anybody but downtown has been on the brink of completely dying for decades. As much slander as you heap onto Orlando leaders, I’ve not heard you comment on Lenny Curry, who residents seem to staunchly dislike and has not done much to improve Jax’s decrepit core. It’s easily the worst major downtown in the state and possibly the south. You and I have had similar discussions about this before so I won’t rehash anything.

But like I said, as it stands, the $1.1B plan has virtually zero chance at seeing the light of day. As far as the other projects, I’m not sold on Khan’s plans either. Meanwhile, U2C has funding and a purpose and the residents STILL don’t care or want it. If it isn’t the beaches, 5 Points, Riverside, San Marco, or whatever else trendy non-downtown areas I’m forgetting, the residents and the city mostly ignore it.

It’d be nice to see you post objectively about Jacksonville for once. Yes, it’s got great bones and TONS of potential, but downtown is a pit, sorry. The Shipyards are a dump, the Landing is an open field no one uses, there are way too many homeless everywhere, and downtown is a ghost town most of the time.

[spenser1058]

On 6/4/2021 at 5:45 PM, Uncommon said:

We’ll see. I want Jax to succeed as much as anybody but downtown has been on the brink of completely dying for decades. As much slander as you heap onto Orlando leaders, I’ve not heard you comment on Lenny Curry, who residents seem to staunchly dislike and has not done much to improve Jax’s decrepit core. It’s easily the worst major downtown in the state and possibly the south. You and I have had similar discussions about this before so I won’t rehash anything.

But like I said, as it stands, the $1.1B plan has virtually zero chance at seeing the light of day. As far as the other projects, I’m not sold on Khan’s plans either. Meanwhile, U2C has funding and a purpose and the residents STILL don’t care or want it. If it isn’t the beaches, 5 Points, Riverside, San Marco, or whatever else trendy non-downtown areas I’m forgetting, the residents and the city mostly ignore it.

It’d be nice to see you post objectively about Jacksonville for once. Yes, it’s got great bones and TONS of potential, but downtown is a pit, sorry. The Shipyards are a dump, the Landing is an open field no one uses, there are way too many homeless everywhere, and downtown is a ghost town most of the time.

I’m here to elect a Democratic mayor and undo much of the nonsense the GOP-controlled administration unleashed over the last couple of decades. What progress we’re seeing (in addition to the major proposals) are things coming up from the grass roots and restoration firms.

The first part we can’t fix until the election - the second part is a desire to be involved downtown that many of the preservation groups avoided for years even as they made major strides elsewhere in town.

Meanwhile, over on the other side of the state:

Residences and retail coming to Ybor:

https://www.tampabay.com/news/business/2021/06/07/residences-retail-planned-for-tampa-park-apartments-site-in-ybor-city/?outputType=amp
 

From The Tampa Bay Times 

Edited June 14, 2021 by spenser1058

[spenser1058]

Let’s go “Walkin’ In Memphis” and chat with the ducks at The Peabody before High Tea:

https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/sights-and-scenes-downtown-memphis/

From The Jaxson

Fun Fact: Did you know that Memphis officially lost its place as Tennessee’s largest city to Nashville in 2016? 

The switch, however, began in the early ‘60’s with the coming of consolidated Metro Nashville.

Shelby is still the larger county and Nashville is the larger MSA.

https://archive.knoxnews.com/news/local/census-estimate-nashville-overtakes-memphis-in-population-3321dab4-1020-1b81-e053-0100007f620a--380021631.html/

From Knoxville News
 

Edited June 14, 2021 by spenser1058

[spenser1058]

A past and a current leader of the Tampa Downtown Partnership compare their downtown as it was in the ‘80’s with today:

https://www.tampabay.com/news/business/2021/06/09/my-has-downtown-tampa-changed-in-the-last-35-years/

From The Tampa Bay Times 

Edited June 14, 2021 by spenser1058

[spenser1058]

Alex Sifakis is betting on downtown Jax - and not just new construction:

https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2021/06/08/investor-reveals-his-vision-for-the-future-of-downtown-jacksonville/?outputType=amp
 

From News4JAX

[AmIReal]

1 hour ago, spenser1058 said:

Alex Sifakis is betting on downtown Jax - and not just new construction:

https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2021/06/08/investor-reveals-his-vision-for-the-future-of-downtown-jacksonville/?outputType=amp
 

From News4JAX

The tradeoff to those great restoration projects you are excited about is the lost 30 years of economic vitality in Jax downtown. The area is preserved in time, but has so much catching up to do. I do believe now is a good time to be developing Jax and I think the end result will be pretty good. OTOH all it takes is for a C Kuhn type person to come along and throw a monkey wrench in the works.

Sifikis specifically mentions Savannah retail- which I admit looks pretty good on the surface. That was "funded" by some land owners in downtown Savannah and the rumors are they are about to bleed tenants.  What SAV and CLT have in common retail wise is tourist. Can downtown Jax pull in visitors?

I have personal ties to downtown Jax so I hope it goes well. 

[spenser1058]

The last operational Tampa cigar factory is going to petition the Biden administration to allow them to import Cuban tobacco. That hasn’t happened since the embargo started in the JFK days:

Tampa cigar company wants to bring Cuban tobacco back to Florida
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/florida/os-ne-tampa-cuban-cigars-20210614-alazaxpd7ffb3jefuuqhhy3j4y-story.html

From The Sentinel 

 

Meanwhile, the Tampa Bay Times is reporting Dole wants to import bananas and pineapples via the Port of Tampa Bay. Things are picking right up in America’s Next Great City.

 

[Uncommon]

34 minutes ago, AmIReal said:

The tradeoff to those great restoration projects you are excited about is the lost 30 years of economic vitality in Jax downtown. The area is preserved in time, but has so much catching up to do. I do believe now is a good time to be developing Jax and I think the end result will be pretty good. OTOH all it takes is for a C Kuhn type person to come along and throw a monkey wrench in the works.

Sifikis specifically mentions Savannah retail- which I admit looks pretty good on the surface. That was "funded" by some land owners in downtown Savannah and the rumors are they are about to bleed tenants.  What SAV and CLT have in common retail wise is tourist. Can downtown Jax pull in visitors?

I have personal ties to downtown Jax so I hope it goes well. 

I also am invested in Jax’s success. I so want it to be the next big thing like Nashville, Charlotte, Phoenix, etc. It has no reason not to, but it’s so behind the 8-ball at this point that any progress will just seem to be too little, too late. They have SO much work to do,  but if anybody can help, it’s @spenser1058

[spenser1058]

1 hour ago, AmIReal said:

The tradeoff to those great restoration projects you are excited about is the lost 30 years of economic vitality in Jax downtown. The area is preserved in time, but has so much catching up to do. I do believe now is a good time to be developing Jax and I think the end result will be pretty good. OTOH all it takes is for a C Kuhn type person to come along and throw a monkey wrench in the works.

Sifikis specifically mentions Savannah retail- which I admit looks pretty good on the surface. That was "funded" by some land owners in downtown Savannah and the rumors are they are about to bleed tenants.  What SAV and CLT have in common retail wise is tourist. Can downtown Jax pull in visitors?

I have personal ties to downtown Jax so I hope it goes well. 

“The area is preserved in time” - that was true of both downtown Orlando (the action in the decade before Mayor Bill was with the Clayton Bros. in Seminole and the tourist zone) and Winter Garden - had the growth not sprawled out on to a widened Highway 50, historic Plant St. would have been demolished.

As for downtown Jax, a series of (mostly) conservative mayors just ignored or leveled most of what was there and followed the developers to Southside.

It might never have changed but the grassroots folks who saved Riverside/Avondale, San Marco, Springfield and others began to realize they couldn’t stick to their well-preserved knitting or there soon wouldn’t be a downtown left to connect the neighborhoods to. Also, as the 50th anniversary of consolidation arrived, a lot of folks started asking about all the promises made (particularly to PoC) that weren’t fulfilled.

Those were the things that piqued my interest. What I found was that, unlike in Orlando, where everything got left to out of town developers and virtually no talk about restoration, (despite hour-long “State of Downtown” speeches) there was real interest in movement. Once the GOP royally screwed up with the attempt to privatize JEA (one of the first moves Buddy tried years ago with OUC - to real Democrats, messing with municipally-owned utilities is the third rail of local politics and that should have been a warning to us), it galvanized a lot of folks (including the media) into action.

As for Cameron, it’s worth noting that he had been quite successful with several smaller projects around downtown Orlando and was well-regarded until Buddy brought him into the bulldozer scheme. Even a move to Jax after that couldn’t keep him from falling back into some of his previous bad Chicago habits. He never recovered. How much of his problems had to do with what happened at Church and Orange? We’ll probably never know. What we do know is things were OK before he got dragged into something he never should have been a part of.

One final note - tourists don’t go to see 10-15 story uninspiring contemporary buildings. What they do go to see are things that remind them of their past. When Orange Ave was being streetscaped and reuses being found for the buildings from the ‘20’s along with Bob Snow’s ersatz history on Church St., downtown thrived. It died when that past got torn down for a set of towers no one cared about or, worse,  just left our history to demolition by neglect.

 

Edited June 15, 2021 by spenser1058