Cool Stuff in Other Cities

[spenser1058]

Warner Bros. is bringing an escape room based on the “IT” franchise to Vegas:

https://www.themeparkinsider.com/flume/202204/8889/

From Theme Park Insider 

Disney really only had Sleepy Hollow and The Black Cauldron that went in much on terror (although Bambi and some of the animated films leave kids with nightmares for years), so this is in Universal’s court or perhaps someone new to keep up with the Desert Dwellers.
 

Edited April 13, 2022 by spenser1058

[prahaboheme]

12 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Warner Bros. is bringing an escape room based on the “IT” franchise to Vegas:

https://www.themeparkinsider.com/flume/202204/8889/

From Theme Park Insider 

Disney really only had Sleepy Hollow and The Black Cauldron that went in much on terror (although Bambi and some of the animated films Rene’s leave kids with nightmares for years), so this is in Universal’s court or perhaps someone new to keep up with the Desert Dwellers.
 

How can you forget the Watcher in the Woods?! That movie definitely scared me as a kid, and I’m guessing some others as Disney never really went there again.

[spenser1058]

Another historic downtown Jacksonville building is on its way to new use:

https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/new-plans-emerge-for-jones-brothers-furniture-building

From The Jaxson
 

[spenser1058]

The Real Estate Industrial Complex and “Luxury” in NYC:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/15/realestate/condo-defects-new-development.html?referringSource=articleShare
 

From The New York Times 

[spenser1058]

The “missing middle” housing once ubiquitous in the South that was the perfect size for neighborhoods people wanted to live in, were a great investment for local owners and weren’t so large that residents couldn’t be Jane Jacobs’ “eyes on the streets” that kept neighbors watching for kids and for criminal activity.

Developers couldn’t make as much profit as they wanted, insisting on huge projects that invariably turned into Rosemont. Time to go Back To The Future:

https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/5-types-of-missing-middle-housing-jax-should-revive

From The Jaxson 
 

[jack]

1 hour ago, spenser1058 said:

The “missing middle” housing once ubiquitous in the South that was the perfect size for neighborhoods people wanted to live in, were a great investment for local owners and weren’t so large that residents couldn’t be Jane Jacobs’ “eyes on the streets” that kept neighbors watching for kids and for criminal activity.

Developers couldn’t make as much profit as they wanted, insisting on huge projects that invariably turned into Rosemont. Time to go Back To The Future:

https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/5-types-of-missing-middle-housing-jax-should-revive

From The Jaxson 
 

Zoning is the primary culprit. A few cities have modified the code to allow for this type of housing including Orlando. But the biggest obstacle to these rezonings......homeowners. 

[HankStrong]

15 hours ago, jack said:

Zoning is the primary culprit. A few cities have modified the code to allow for this type of housing including Orlando. But the biggest obstacle to these rezonings......homeowners. 

Indeed.  A friend and her husband were looking to build a few bungalow courts (I didn't know that actual term until I read the article Spense linked) in East Orlando and said they hit roadblock after roadblock.  From officials to builders to local neighbors.  I'm not sure how far into the process they got, but they said it was all extremely negative and built to make you fail.  They were thinking like 2/2 800-1000sf homes in a cluster with communal areas.  If you aren't building McMansions, you aren't crap in this town.

Another friend had the idea of a brick & mortar tiny home community for people who really wanted to downsize but don't want to live in a travel trailer in Florida with hurricanes & tornadoes.  Wow was that a huge mountain!  Apparently, you can't build a home in Orange/Orlando that isn't at least 700sf (somewhere around that like 700-750?  I can't remember the exact number they told me.) without a full review from all the commissioners.

[spenser1058]

On 4/19/2022 at 7:50 AM, HankStrong said:

Indeed.  A friend and her husband were looking to build a few bungalow courts (I didn't know that actual term until I read the article Spense linked) in East Orlando and said they hit roadblock after roadblock.  From officials to builders to local neighbors.  I'm not sure how far into the process they got, but they said it was all extremely negative and built to make you fail.  They were thinking like 2/2 800-1000sf homes in a cluster with communal areas.  If you aren't building McMansions, you aren't crap in this town.

Another friend had the idea of a brick & mortar tiny home community for people who really wanted to downsize but don't want to live in a travel trailer in Florida with hurricanes & tornadoes.  Wow was that a huge mountain!  Apparently, you can't build a home in Orange/Orlando that isn't at least 700sf (somewhere around that like 700-750?  I can't remember the exact number they told me.) without a full review from all the commissioners.

Homeowners are of course paranoid about their property values, often unnecessarily so (I always point out there are several small apartment buildings around Lake Cherokee and not one of those huge old houses has had their property values diminished by those multifamily buildings. The key to it is they’re small and the independent owners keep tabs on how things are going. It’s when they corporate that things start slipping.

More importantly, I love it when real estate types and developers say, “the regulations keep us from doing (insert whatever they really don’t want to do”. It’s been eons since any regulation has been passed in the area that wasn’t approved (and in many cases actually written) by realtors and developers. You’d be hard pressed to find ANYTHING done by Buddy Dyer that wasn’t approved by the real estate interests that keep him in office.

Finally, in this Sentinel op-ed, a professor who has written extensively on the topic, makes clear what we already knew: whenever property managers and builders go corporate, they have to meet Wall Street ROI standards, which are totally out of whack with Main Street.

It’s why a privately-owned company like White Castle can thrive while those that go the publicly owned, or worse, control by PEFs or hedge funds like Krystal, fall further and further behind. Two businesses, almost identical, but what a divergence.

Finally, a former WP commissioner and UCF prof, made a great point in a Sentinel column: “highest and best use for whom?” There’s nothing that says highest and best use for citizens has to mesh with highest and best use for the moneychangers.

It’s time to realize there are competing interests in communities and nowhere in the Constitution or anywhere else will you find it legally written that the interests of the real estate investment complex takes priority over citizens who actually live in a place. Going too far down that road leads to backlash and that’s how we end up with much of the nonsense in the political arena.

I know here in UP, where much of the membership is employed by those in the building industry and their supporters, they’ve been taught what’s good for their business is holy writ. However, for the citizens who have to live with what’s put in place for decades after, that’s often not the case. Of course, those who take the money and run, leaving their messes behind for someone else to clean up, will tell you it’s not their problem. Sadly, that’s been Florida’s history for way too long and it shows.

Commentary
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/opinion/guest-commentary/os-op-disney-affordable-housing-20220420-gw2a3zux55advalirhj2vjq4nq-story.html

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/opinion/guest-commentary/os-op-winter-park-library-developers-20220420-ps6dwtrfb5huzlemgcsn6brtwi-story.htm

 

 

Edited April 20, 2022 by spenser1058

[AmIReal]

14 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Homeowners are of course paranoid about their property values, often unnecessarily so (I always point out there are several small apartment buildings around Lake Cherokee and not one of those huge old houses has had their property values diminished by those multifamily buildings. The key to it is they’re small and the independent owners keep tabs on how things are going. It’s when they corporate that things start slipping.

More importantly, I love it when real estate types and developers say, “the regulations keep us from doing (insert whatever they really don’t want to do”. It’s been eons since any regulation has been passed in the area that wasn’t approved (and in many cases actually written) by realtors and developers. You’d be hard pressed to find ANYTHING done by Buddy Dyer that wasn’t approved by the real estate interests that keep him in office.

Finally, in this Sentinel op-ed, a professor who has written extensively on the topic, makes clear what we already knew: whenever property managers and builders go corporate, they have to meet Wall Street ROI standards, which are totally out of whack with Main Street.

It’s why a privately-owned company like White Castle can thrive while those that go the publicly owned, or worse, control by PEFs or hedge funds like Krystal, fall further and further behind. Two businesses, almost identical, but what a divergence.

Finally, a former WP commissioner and UCF prof, made a great point in a Sentinel column: “highest and best use for whom?” There’s nothing that says highest and best use for citizens has to mesh with highest and best use for the moneychangers.

It’s time to realize there are competing interests in communities and nowhere in the Constitution or anywhere else will you find it legally written that the interests of the real estate investment complex takes priority over citizens who actually live in a place. Going too far down that road leads to backlash and that’s how we end up with much of the nonsense in the political arena.

I know here in UP, where much of the membership is employed by those in the building industry and their supporters, they’ve been taught what’s good for their business is holy writ. However, for the citizens who have to live with what’s put in place for decades after, that’s often not the case. Of course, those who take the money and run, leaving their messes behind for someone else to clean up, will tell you it’s not their problem. Sadly, that’s been Florida’s history for way too long and it shows.

Commentary
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/opinion/guest-commentary/os-op-disney-affordable-housing-20220420-gw2a3zux55advalirhj2vjq4nq-story.html

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/opinion/guest-commentary/os-op-winter-park-library-developers-20220420-ps6dwtrfb5huzlemgcsn6brtwi-story.htm

 

 

I honestly think a lot of your opinion on this is well intentioned and reasonable, but I also think it has to be understood it comes from an individual in their 60's who has reveled in the fact they are a lifetime renter and have never owned property. I don't think it invalidates your perspective, I just think it makes it different from how I view things.  Having said that, I love the idea of bungalow courts and welcome them in city limits. 

I read the OS commentary from the "professor of social and cultural analysis" that you referenced, but I don't think it said what you think it said.  He didn't mention corporate, wall street or ROI. I'm not sure he would understand those terms if confronted with them. I would love to see him explain how he proposes to actually build things without enticing those that build them to make money. The LECs he mentions- typically used for converting already built properties-may work for building a small scale project, but it would be difficult to get 1000 plus units out of that. Again, there is no financial incentive.

I also glanced over the commentary from the WP commissioner from the '70s (wow, hard to believe that was 40+ years ago). It seems he wants to turn the WP library into the Delaney Senior Center. I'm hoping they have a better "highest and best use", but I also hope it doesn't turn into a food court.

Btw, I'm not employed by the building industry or their supporters, I've lived here for nearly 4 decades, I own property. But even if I did work for a developer or moved here last year, I don't see how that would diminish my views.

Edited April 21, 2022 by AmIReal

[HankStrong]

For clarity, both of the people I was referring to were in OC, not Orlando.  I don't know that they know each other, so maybe I should introduce them?  I would love something like both of those scenarios.

[jack]

16 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Homeowners are of course paranoid about their property values, often unnecessarily so (I always point out there are several small apartment buildings around Lake Cherokee and not one of those huge old houses has had their property values diminished by those multifamily buildings. The key to it is they’re small and the independent owners keep tabs on how things are going. It’s when they corporate that things start slipping.

More importantly, I love it when real estate types and developers say, “the regulations keep us from doing (insert whatever they really don’t want to do”. It’s been eons since any regulation has been passed in the area that wasn’t approved (and in many cases actually written) by realtors and developers. You’d be hard pressed to find ANYTHING done by Buddy Dyer that wasn’t approved by the real estate interests that keep him in office.

Finally, in this Sentinel op-ed, a professor who has written extensively on the topic, makes clear what we already knew: whenever property managers and builders go corporate, they have to meet Wall Street ROI standards, which are totally out of whack with Main Street.

It’s why a privately-owned company like White Castle can thrive while those that go the publicly owned, or worse, control by PEFs or hedge funds like Krystal, fall further and further behind. Two businesses, almost identical, but what a divergence.

Finally, a former WP commissioner and UCF prof, made a great point in a Sentinel column: “highest and best use for whom?” There’s nothing that says highest and best use for citizens has to mesh with highest and best use for the moneychangers.

It’s time to realize there are competing interests in communities and nowhere in the Constitution or anywhere else will you find it legally written that the interests of the real estate investment complex takes priority over citizens who actually live in a place. Going too far down that road leads to backlash and that’s how we end up with much of the nonsense in the political arena.

I know here in UP, where much of the membership is employed by those in the building industry and their supporters, they’ve been taught what’s good for their business is holy writ. However, for the citizens who have to live with what’s put in place for decades after, that’s often not the case. Of course, those who take the money and run, leaving their messes behind for someone else to clean up, will tell you it’s not their problem. Sadly, that’s been Florida’s history for way too long and it shows.

Commentary
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/opinion/guest-commentary/os-op-disney-affordable-housing-20220420-gw2a3zux55advalirhj2vjq4nq-story.html

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/opinion/guest-commentary/os-op-winter-park-library-developers-20220420-ps6dwtrfb5huzlemgcsn6brtwi-story.htm

 

 

You can blame everyone else if you want to but regulations prevent most of what you want to happen all around the county and here in Central Florida. There isn't a big enough lobby to change those rules. 

If you were able to get past the regulators, you would have to figure out a way to build it. Some scale development is absolutely more expensive compared to large scale on a per square foot basis. That is a fact and it has nothing to do with private or public ownership, Wall St, etc. 

2 hours ago, HankStrong said:

For clarity, both of the people I was referring to were in OC, not Orlando.  I don't know that they know each other, so maybe I should introduce them?  I would love something like both of those scenarios.

Not surprising. The City is fairly progressive when it come to thinking out of the box on these sorts of things. They are not perfect but they get it. 

[jack]

On 4/19/2022 at 7:50 AM, HankStrong said:

Indeed.  A friend and her husband were looking to build a few bungalow courts (I didn't know that actual term until I read the article Spense linked) in East Orlando and said they hit roadblock after roadblock.  From officials to builders to local neighbors.  I'm not sure how far into the process they got, but they said it was all extremely negative and built to make you fail.  They were thinking like 2/2 800-1000sf homes in a cluster with communal areas.  If you aren't building McMansions, you aren't crap in this town.

Another friend had the idea of a brick & mortar tiny home community for people who really wanted to downsize but don't want to live in a travel trailer in Florida with hurricanes & tornadoes.  Wow was that a huge mountain!  Apparently, you can't build a home in Orange/Orlando that isn't at least 700sf (somewhere around that like 700-750?  I can't remember the exact number they told me.) without a full review from all the commissioners.

There is a rental project in Daytona Beach that is a single family rental at scale. But instead of doing standard 3/2's over 1,500 sq ft each, they offer a wide array of housing types including 1 bedroom lofts. It is not affordable by the standard definition but it gives renters an option to be in a single family house and all of the amenities for a lower cost. 

https://thecottagesatdaytonabeach.com

[orange87]

A beautiful spring day in Simsbury, Connecticut.

Edited April 23, 2022 by orange87

[spenser1058]

1 hour ago, orange87 said:

A beautiful spring day in Simsbury, Connecticut.

Does this mean you’re really a Sim?

[spenser1058]

It’s always interesting to see what’s up at Tokyo Disney Resort because the Imagineers are freer to let their creativity run without value engineering because someone other than Disney (Oriental Land Co.) is paying for it.

So, they’re about to level their existing ‘70’s-era Space Mountain in favor of a newer version that will anchor a newly imagined Tomorrowland. Not a lot of detail so far, but the exterior rendering shows an attraction that pays homage to the original but is at the same time quite different:

https://www.themeparkinsider.com/flume/202204/8915/
 

From Theme Park Insider 

[spenser1058]

Can Chicago’s Water Tower Place and the Magnificent Mile be saved?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/04/27/chicago-magnificentmile-michiganavenue-retail-shopping-malls-lorilightfoot/

From The Washington Post

They have a predicament we’re familiar with - a mayor that doesn’t really care much about downtown.
 

 

[spenser1058]

How about a 44-story tower on “Lenny’s Lawn” (the former Jacksonville Landing) on the Northbank downtown:

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/photo-gallery/new-york-developer-pitches-dollar166-million-residential-high-rise-downtown

From Jax Daily Record

I have no idea if this has legs but it’s an interesting updated nod to the former Independent Life (now Wells Fargo) Tower adjoining it. It’s been one of the iconic buildings on the skyline since its completion in the ‘70’s.

[spenser1058]

Proposals for the Museum of Science and History (MOSH - do you suppose they’ll have a mosh pit?) at the Jacksonville Shipyards along the St Johns River:

https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/new-museum-of-science-history-renderings-released

From The Jaxson 
 

[spenser1058]

Downtown Charleston gets a 30000sf Target which opens May 15.

We got a rock… thanks, Thomas Chatmon!

Did we mention how much smaller Charleston is than Orlando? We’re the 23rd largest- Charleston is #74

 

https://www.live5news.com/2022/05/03/target-announces-grand-opening-date-king-street-store/

From WCSC

Edited May 3, 2022 by spenser1058

[spenser1058]

Let’s take a virtual stroll around Ybor City, shall we?

https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/exploring-tampas-historic-ybor-city/
 

From The Jaxson 

[prahaboheme]

13 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Let’s take a virtual stroll around Ybor City, shall we?

https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/exploring-tampas-historic-ybor-city/
 

From The Jaxson 

Ybor seems to be catching steam. I recall when it really became slimy back in the early 2000s. It’s great to see a historic area with deep roots continue to evolve.

Edited May 6, 2022 by prahaboheme

[JFW657]

For a mere $900,000.00, you could be the envy of all your friends.

And everyone else in the world.

This is way too cool for Sarasota....

 

 

And now for the shocker.....

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article260981277.html

 

 

[spenser1058]

The Scottish Rite Masonic Temple, a historic gem in the Springfield neighborhood just north of Downtown Jacksonville, is being restored and offered to the public as an awesome event space.

Sadly, our Scottish Rite Temple on Gore St. was demolished for generic medical buildings years ago.

https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/springfield-parks-scottish-rite-masonic-temple

From The Jaxson 
 

[Uncommon]

Jacksonville sucks.

[prahaboheme]

Moffitt Cancer Center, arguably Florida's best cancer center, is expanding it's Tampa footprint into downtown St Pete as part of a larger $300 million mixed-use development.

https://stpeterising.com/home/2022/5/16/300-million-mixed-use-development-anchored-by-moffitt-moves-forward-in-downtown-st-pete

I must admit that I hoped Moffitt would expand into the Orlando market after MD Anderson cut ties with ORMC.  

And in other St. Pete news, ground work has started on the 46 floor 400 Central tower:

https://stpeterising.com/400-central-ave

That retail design might be the best u/c in Florida.