Paramount Tower, 65-68 stories, approx. 750', 200 units, $240 million, Church Street Park

[Pyramid Scheme]

Isn't this how it normally happens? It's announced, there's a flurry of excitement here, followed by a year or two of silence, then one day we see renderings and details but no start date.......Finally, someone on this board drives by and snaps a picture of workers on the site, followed by a fence and whatnot and it starts getting built.

[bigeasy]

17 hours ago, Philip said:

Isn't this how it normally happens? It's announced, there's a flurry of excitement here, followed by a year or two of silence, then one day we see renderings and details but no start date.......Finally, someone on this board drives by and snaps a picture of workers on the site, followed by a fence and whatnot and it starts getting built.

You forgot to mention the part where it loses about a quarter of the height from the original rendering.

[Pyramid Scheme]

1 hour ago, bigeasy said:

You forgot to mention the part where it loses about a quarter of the height from the original rendering.

Let's hope that step is skipped in regards to Paramount.

[satalac]

4 hours ago, bigeasy said:

You forgot to mention the part where it loses about a quarter of the height from the original rendering.

Hell, West End Summit got into the negatives as far as floors above ground. 

[fishsticks176]

https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/12/nashville-church-street-park-real-estate-developer-homeless/576958/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=citylab

 

^CityLab article on the fight for Church Street Park

[Guest]

I 'love' the articles appearing lately about the homeless park implying it is new arrivals to Nashville forcing out the homeless and somehow undermining the city's historic 'heart'.

On the contrary, the two camps screaming the loudest in my opinion are the self-annointed purveyors of civic fabric local and abroad (see above article) or the entrenched nonprofit special interest groups with their hand(s) out. Non a peep of complaint from Nashville residences who have been dealing with the crime-ridden ulcer of a park for a decade.

Edited December 11, 2018 by Guest

[Pyramid Scheme]

1 hour ago, nashville_bound said:

Non a peep of complaint from Nashville residences who have been dealing with the crime-ridden ulcer of a park for a decade.

That's why it's a silent majority.

[smeagolsfree]

As long as it is a city owned and managed park there will be the same issue. You cant restrict who comes and goes. The only way is to privatize it and the NCDC is clueless. They should be embracing this this.

Sometimes I think they have outlived their usefulness as not much they suggest or push happens. Seems to be a lot of talk and no action. Sort of like the Hysterical Commission. No viable solutions, just screaming alarms of doom and gloom.

[markhollin]

Opponents to the Church Street Pocket Park land swap start making some proposals.

https://www.civicdesigncenter.org/news/2018/12/05/dreaming-big-for-public-space.3375039

More at NBJ here:

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2018/12/11/opponents-of-metro-land-swap-begin-rolling-out.html

 

[smeagolsfree]

More trees to hide behind and more benches to sleep on. Water features, give me a break. They had one and had to take it out because the homeless were bathing and peeing in it. I don't think people will be bring their kids here no matter how many renderings you have with happy little families in the depictions.

Pavilions to sleep under too. This will be paradise. I think I will become homeless and go there. Plenty of books to read across the street, churches bringing me food and coffee all the time, why should I have to help my self. Its one stop shopping. I can bring my stolen shopping cart with all my belongings and just hang out with all my buds.

 

Don't get me wrong folks I try to help when and where I can but this is the wrong place. Homeless folks need a helping hand not to be enabled. This park helps to enable them to stay right where they are happy and comfortable.

[MLBrumby]

Another unmentioned (in this article) parcel of "open" space will be right in the next block in front of the federal courthouse. I put open in quotes because it will be green and landscaped and enable the setback from Church Street, but it's probably not going to be accessible to the public. I have not seen fencing around it in the renderings, but I expect that to be the case.  I hope I'm wrong. 

[smeagolsfree]

No, not really because it will be federal property and the Feds are very touchy about who gets to camp on their front lawn. The guards at the new Federal courthouse will shew them" away rapidly and "they" will quickly find out that its not a place that loitering will be tolerated.

[satalac]

49 minutes ago, markhollin said:

Opponents to the Church Street Pocket Park land swap start making some proposals.

https://www.civicdesigncenter.org/news/2018/12/05/dreaming-big-for-public-space.3375039

More at NBJ here:

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2018/12/11/opponents-of-metro-land-swap-begin-rolling-out.html

 

Are they high? "We don't need a tower here, we need a park!" Well, um, you wanna take a look and see what's there right now? A park. Full of needles and hepatitis. So family friendly! I don't care how they dress it up, the problem will still exist. Put a fountain there...enjoy the new toilet. Put some charging benches there...never be able to use them because you're in a homeless office. At least with the tower/land swap deal, there would be a place for the homeless to actually stay inside, out of the elements. But no, let's just keep doing the same thing, over and over.

[LA_TN]

Just build some public restrooms and call it a day

[Tennessine]

An example of people promoting "feel good" ideas that won't actually work

[Bos2Nash]

So I have been a bit torn on this swap from the get go and because I am torn I lean toward the 'nah' side of the swap. The city as a whole needs to re-think how we approach the homeless population and this park is the perfect case study to do it. If we are posting two police out there everyday, why are we not closing the park after dark and having the homeless that are there moved to the mission? Not forcibly, but rather provide them vehicle transport to another location (mission). I bet by closing the park at night and removing the possibility of homeless people  "living" in the park, we will spend less money cleaning the park up and it would more then pay for any transportation to move the folks to the mission. Secondly, we talk about seating, this is where design can help change things. Design a seat that is comfortable to sit in for five/10/20 minutes, but is not comfortable or not possible to sleep on. Granted, a homeless person is not going to be comfortable outdoors all the time, but people wont sleep on benches that prod their ribs and thighs all night. We have to fundamentally shift our approach to the homeless to help solve the problem. Third, this article pointed out the biggest concern I have had from the get go. The social consequence of placing a homeless transitional housing project directly across the street is plain irresponsible on the city's part (the article also said it is permanent housing, I thought it was transitional?).

Public space SHOULD remain public, yes, but we need to re-think how we maintain those public spaces. Private ownership and maintenance is not the only solution here. I think that while we want our city to continue developing, some on this board are fascinated with a new tall tower impacting our skyline and will just roll with it no matter what. To me, the social consequences of removing a park (only to move it next to highway), letting a luxury tower go up without public amenities really included, and building a social project across from a jail all scream bad juju to me.  

Smeag mentioned on another thread that eventually taxes will go up in the city to help pay for certain things. Homeless care will have to be up there with the schools, metro employees, and infrastructure. 

Lastly, I disagree that the NCDC has outlived their purpose. If it wasn't for them I doubt Broadway sidewalk improvements would've ever happened, and what they work to do for the greater city is something special.

 

[smeagolsfree]

They are closing the park after dark and have two cops posted there the rest of the time and people still don't feel safe or comfortable going to the park. The homeless are pretty much kicked out of the mission during the day and have to fend for themselves like go look for a job, or housing, or a can of beer. Churches come to the park and feed the homeless during the day, wash everyone's feet and make the ones doing it feel really good inside, while washing someone's feet is a kind act, it does nothing to help them get off the street. With the churches feeding the homeless and doing acts of kindness there, they are actually encouraging the problem. Word travels quickly around the homeless community about where the free lunches are. You may think I am a heartless bastard, but I do get out and talk to these people, help when I can, and I have had my share of nasty encounters too.

Interesting while I was in Boston I did not see a daylight homeless encampment in Boston Commons.... Why? Is there an ordinance? I did see a few panhandlers there, I just didnt see a lot. I saw a lot more in Cleveland than in Boston.

[Mr_Bond]

1 hour ago, smeagolsfree said:

This will be paradise. I think I will become homeless and go there... and just hang out with all my buds.

Are you suggesting we join you?  Can we get wifi from the library so we can still hangout on UP all day?

[smeagolsfree]

Works for me.. UP meetings all day and we can walk around looking at the construction , bum money and have a few beers. We can bring our guitars and sing bad songs on Lower Broad and bum some extra cash too.

[DDIG]

3 hours ago, markhollin said:

Opponents to the Church Street Pocket Park land swap start making some proposals.

https://www.civicdesigncenter.org/news/2018/12/05/dreaming-big-for-public-space.3375039

More at NBJ here:

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2018/12/11/opponents-of-metro-land-swap-begin-rolling-out.html

 

The Civic Design Center suggests with Amazon down the street this park will be needed. Right. Isn't the Yards planning an acre plus of green space? They are going to walk a couple blocks to a sliver park?

[Pyramid Scheme]

3 hours ago, smeagolsfree said:

Homeless folks need a helping hand not to be enabled

So many people confuse the 2 though. I wonder if they've heard the proverb about giving a man a fish vs. teaching him to fish.

[ruraljuror]

18 minutes ago, Philip said:

I wonder if they've heard the proverb about giving a man a fish vs. teaching him to fish.

Is that the one where Jesus gathered 5,000 people for the fishing and bread baking seminar?

I've got no problem with the 'teach a man to fish' metaphor but you've got to take it to its logical conclusion, otherwise the realities of the situation are lost in the oversimplification.

Teaching a man to fish doesn't do much good unless he also has access to a fishing pole, and bait, and some public waterway stocked with enough fish to go around.  Of course, he'd also need tools to gut and cook the fish, as well as some method of storing excess fish so that it's not feast or famine day-by-day, and none of this takes into account the other basic necessities of survival beyond food.  

There are jobs programs to help teach the homeless 'to fish' - but it can be hard to get and keep a job if you don't have regular access to a shower, or laundry, or a bed (or much if any protection from the elements at all for that matter).   There are programs to help people with that too and many of the other problems they may face, but they're always underfunded and it can be tough to continually get access to those services when you don't have a car and there aren't good cheap public transit options to get there- especially when those services run out of space quickly.

All that to say, I'm all for teaching everyone to fish, but that's much more complex than the parable seems to indicate and by no means even then is it a perfect solution.  Sometimes when somebody is hungry the best thing to do is just give them a fish, at least while we're actively trying to figure out a better way to make teaching them how to fish for themselves a realistically viable solution to their problem.

 

 

 

 

[Dale]

7 minutes ago, ruraljuror said:

Is that the one where Jesus gathered 5,000 people for the fishing and bread baking seminar?

I've got no problem with the 'teach a man to fish' metaphor but you've got to take it to its logical conclusion, otherwise the realities of the situation are lost in the oversimplification.

Teaching a man to fish doesn't do much good unless he also has access to a fishing pole, and bait, and some public waterway stocked with enough fish to go around.  Of course, he'd also need tools to gut and cook the fish, as well as some method of storing excess fish so that it's not feast or famine day-by-day, and none of this takes into account the other basic necessities of survival beyond food.  

There are jobs programs to help teach the homeless 'to fish' - but it can be hard to get and keep a job if you don't have regular access to a shower, or laundry, or a bed (or much if any protection from the elements at all for that matter).   There are programs to help people with that too and many of the other problems they may face, but they're always underfunded and it can be tough to continually get access to those services when you don't have a car and there aren't good cheap public transit options to get there- especially when those services run out of space quickly.

All that to say, I'm all for teaching everyone to fish, but that's much more complex than the parable seems to indicate and by no means even then is it a perfect solution.  Sometimes when somebody is hungry the best thing to do is just give them a fish, at least while we're actively trying to figure out a better way to make teaching them how to fish for themselves a realistically viable solution to their problem.

 

 

 

 

I used to work with a homeless ministry. And I can attest that it is damned difficult to teach people to fish when they don’t want to.

[DDIG]

 

[Binbin98]

I hope this news will support this project coming to fruition. I was in Downtown Nashville last night with friends and they all made sure I avoided the church street park area since we were walking around at night. I felt very safe but regardless I do think this project would benefit the city as a whole and maybe be the catalyst for future taller developments to be proposed. Besides, I feel the homeless population would be better suited to live in a shelter with water, electricity and heat instead of living in a park outside which could be subject to any changes in weather and outside dirt and disease. Letting the homeless live outside in a park instead of giving them a potential place to live just seems really stupid to me. But since this is Nashville with its extremely conservative city council, I expect this project to not get passed like many others. I wish this city was more embracing of responsible growth than against it. Rant over lol